Gatsby77

And Aquaman, which has already finished shooting. They have to publicly state they'll continue to develop a full slate of films, but the chances we see even a Green Lantern Corps film before 2022, or even Flashpoint in 2020 -- just diminished considerably. Also notable is the rumor that one reason they cut the Flash-saving-Iris West scene from Justice League is that she was only cast due to director Rick Famuyiwa's insistence -- when he bailed, Warner Bros. opted to drop her and are now re-casting.

As someone who counts the 1997 run as the definitive Justice League, I agree. Although my favorite run there was "Tower of Babel" by Mark Waid, wherein Ra's Al Ghul used Batman's plans to take out the whole JLA. But (as noted previously) I think the -script failed to provide the whole Justice League the movie it deserved.

How about Wikipedia, which cites a Collider article, which itself cites a Wall Street Journal article? Ahem: Wikipedia for "List of Most Expensive Films" (Feel free to go in and edit it, Bosco!) Justice League ranks roughly third on both the adjusted-for-inflation and unadjusted charts (natch, 'cuz it's current).

In other words: Justice League is projected to finish at # 12 worldwide for 2017 releases, and "just ahead" of $227 million domestically.

Here's what purports to be 2007 Whedon's -script for his aborted Wonder Woman movie. I think it pales in comparison to what we actually received. Not saying he couldn't hit Batgirl out of the park, but I'd like to see a more serious, less Whedon'y take, a la what we got with Wonder Woman this year. Either way, read this & see what you think compared to the 2017 WW we received. https://indiegroundfilms.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/wonder-woman-aug7-07-joss-whedon.pdf

I could get behind either Mendelsohn or Mikkelsen for this.

Here's a projected profit/loss for Justice League from two days ago, from Forbes' Rob Cain: His creds? He's a "former studio executive and current film finance consultant and producer." Forbes: Warner Bros. Faces A Possible $50M to $100M Loss on 'Justice League' It's an extensive analysis, but he presumes the costs of: $300 million for producing the movie $150 million for marketing $60 million for global home entertainment costs $20 million for talent residuals and "off-the-tops" (release-related expenses) $20 million in interest expense and $50 milion for talent participation to the director, producers, stars, and others. That comes out to $600 million total. Then there's an additional 12% or so cost of capital over a few years which gets us to the widely-reported & assumed $700 milion break-even, even including off-sets from marketing partners that subsidized the marketing. And here's a chart on how the projected ROI compares to other recent comic book films, in which Justice League ranks 20th out of 20:

Why would you cite $275M or slightly more, when the vast majority of articles cite $300M? In particular, the Variety article you cite that lists the $250M budget for principal photography came out six days ago. More recent articles in Variety (from four days ago and two days ago) cite $300M total. $300M was also cited by Deadline, Collider (actually noted as "north of $300M, est. $450 with marketing costs added), Forbes, etc. -- all of which were published more recently than the Variety piece that notes just $250M before re-shoots.

I'd posted earlier a tweet by one of the VFX guys on Justice League who weighed in on this. He noted that it would have been much cheaper if Paramount had allowed Cavill to shave his mustache for the Justice League re-shoots and then to have Warner Bros. pay to have his mustache digitally added to the remainder of MI:6. Because it's tons easier to add elements than erase them.

I can't speak for Roy but I agree with him that today's mainstream comics are _far_ better written than the ones of our youth. And what you can see in the past 15 years that you didn't before is writers coming from the ranks of published authors, even for generic superhero books (Brad Meltzer on Green Arrow, Jody Piccoult on Wonder Woman, Straczynski on ASM, etc.) I think the shift came around 2000-2001, when you had both an influx of new writers (including Greg Rucka, Ed Brubaker, Brian Azarello and Bryan K. Vaughn, Scott Snyder) and the widespread move towards writing for the trades (such as the runs beginning with Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2 # 30-50 or so, Incredible Hulk vol. 2 # 34-60 or so, Daredevil vol. 2 -- starting with # 16 and running through to at least # 90, Detective Comics 742-775). The average superhero book today is _far_ better written and more sophisticated than those of the '80s, when you had just 3-4 superstars with Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, & such.

I *love* that idea.

Preach. Logan's a perfect example of a smaller film that prioritized storytelling over spectacle. And gets to be called a success because it clocked $226 million domestic on a $97 million budget. (Compared to budgets of $150 million and $120 million, respectively, for the first two Wolverine solo films). Rather than go bigger as the films progressed, Logan won by going smaller. Given yesterday's $7.5 million take for Justice League, Scott Mendelson's now estimating it to do $250 million domestic/$750 million worldwide. That's possibly break-even, but also possibly not.

Interesting analysis from a Forbes guy on how Warner Bros.' upcoming legal battle with the DOJ over the AT&T merger will likely make the film studio that much more risk-averse, likely killing the prospects for near-term Cyborg, Green Lantern, and solo Superman movies, as well as Flashpoint: https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/11/20/justice-league-box-office-failure-doj-lawsuit-are-major-trouble-for-dceu/#2e5a3e9e4b91 For those who missed this morning's news, DOJ is suing to block the full merger of AT&T with Time Warner to essentially blackmail Time Warner into selling CNN to Fox. Either way, the legal battle will hammer Warner's stock.

Exactly. Writing trumps everything. George Clooney = great actor; still the worst Batman ever. But stick him in the Nolan films - he would have been fine. Make good movies, and the people will come. Make mess movies and well...

Agreed. He can put the stench of Conan the Barbarian behind him.

You can trumpet this until you're blue in the face, but a) not all the social media has been positive -- by a long shot. b) Even if it were true (hint: it's not) t's easy to claim "large portion of the audience" when the the audience is so much smaller than for prior films. The fact is, the audience still didn't show up for this. Opening Weekends: Man of Steel: $116.6 million BvS: $166 million (+42%) Suicide Squad: $133.7 million (-19..5%) Wonder Woman: $103 million (-23%) Justice League: $93.8 million (-9%) That's a trend line that's hard to ignore.

The good the bad and the ugly. My view:

Except that in the post in question, I literally just linked to the Forbes article and then summarized author Scott Mendelson's views in that article. The *only* additional piece of information I added was the fact that Justice League was tracking to do less than Iron Man did in its opening weekend 9 years ago (which is a fact). You and I may differ, but I think posting analysis of box office performance from Forbes is absolutely germane to discussion here -- and you yourself have posted his analysis on other comic book films when it's been positive. Note, that I've so far refrained from publishing the analysis from Rob Cain at Forbes re. Justice League's under-performance in China this weekend. Also I've also now seen the film. I think Rotten Tomatoes was right on - that it's a solid 2 stars out of 5, as in bad but not terrible. Definitely better than Suicide Squad and Green Lantern, and I liked it a bit better than BvS. Think in my mind it's equivalent to Dr. Strange -- an okay time at the theater but not something I ever want to see again. And that's a shame. Happy to go into detail later about the good, the bad, and what would have made it better. The biggest missed opportunity of the film though is that we're sitting here as comic book geeks the Monday morning after a freakin' Justice League movie and -- rather than celebrating it -- we're discussing the damage it's done and which planned DC movies may never see the light of day due to how badly Warner Bros. mismanaged it. That's sad.

Agreed. Also, I was all-but accused of trolling for simply summarizing a box office analysis posted by a Forbes movie critic who has been cited by many here on these boards for his reliable and cogent analysis of other superhero movies. Apparently posting facts surrounding Justice League's relative underperformance and a major critics' discussion of potential reasons for it is frowned upon by a few prolific voices here.

But do fans really love it, though? Or are they just excited to see some of their favorite heroes on-screen together for the first time? That there's already a fan petition asking to see a Snyder "Director's Cut" indicates to me that the hardcore fans know the film's deeply flawed and at least want to see what Snyder's vision, without the forced Whedon humor and re-shoots.

Seriously Bosco - _that's_ what you're going with? That a small indy film over-performs expectations by $11 million to reach the lofty heights of ~$28 million is the reason the freakin' Justice League movie underperformed its modest $118 million expectations by literally $20 million? That it couldn't touch the opening of Wonder Woman, let alone come close to that of Thor 3? That it came it at nearly $70 million under the opening of BvS? That it couldn't even reach the un-adjusted total of Iron Man back in 2008, despite WB having released a Batman movie that same year that opened to $158 million? Of literally all the excuses you could have picked...wow.

Globally, Justice League has an estimated opening of $281.5 million, down from projections of $325 million last Thursday.

Scott Mendelson: 'Justice League' Box Office: Why A $96M Debut Is A Disaster He's not the first critic to make the comparison to Batman Forever -- a misguided "family friendly" over-correction following a "too dark" predecessor Adjusted for inflation, Justice League is projected to sell fewer tickets opening weekend then Batman Forever did (equiv. of $108 million today) More likely cause? "folks didn't like Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice so they stayed away from the sequel." Cites a best case scenario that if Justice League has incredible legs it finishes just under $300 million domestic, although $225-$270 milion is more likely. My additional note: Not adjusting for inflation, Iron Man opened to $98.6 million 9 years ago.

Six episodes in and I'm surprised by how much I like this. Probably my favorite Marvel Netflix show since Daredevil. Reminiscent of Season 1 of Homeland.