PuraVida

On 6/4/2022 at 8:12 PM, oluckydayo said:

That being said, these were all PC cards that I only had one copy of, not cards where I was picking and choosing to make sure I got a gem for resale.    In my notes before sending I wrote down that I thought 20 of them had a chance to gem, so I was within an acceptable margin of error in my screening/predictions.  

Thanks for sharing. That all sounds about right. Sounds like great returns! Thanks,

--Kyle

On 6/3/2022 at 9:17 PM, oluckydayo said:

Screen your cards properly and they'll grade them fairly. 

My 54 card sub that just shipped:

10: 16 cards
9.5: 15 cards
9: 10 cards
8.5: 8 cards
8: 2 cards
7.5: 2 cards
5.5 1 card

Of the cards that graded below a 9, six of them are legit vintage from pre-1980 that I knew would be lucky to get above an 8 (and one did).   There were very few surprises outside of about +- .5 grade on many cards. 

Agreed, that's why I was asking if he screened them, and if they were modern. If they were all ultra modern and he submitted only his truly best cards and he only got an 8% Gem rate, then that's terrible. If that happened to me, I simply wouldn't submit with CSG again. I'm pretty picky with what I send in so I would expect a high Gem rate. If I can't get that on cards I expect to Gem, I won't sub with them. 

Having said that, I watched an unboxing of a big CSG order where a lot of ultra modern cards were sent in, and I know the submitter sent only his best. The vast majority were Gems, so I'm much less concerned now. 

As for yours, if you don't count the vintage, it looks like you had a gem rate of 33%? Were those ultra modern and well screened? That certainly sounds decent, but I would expect higher from my subs if I was very picky with what I sent in. 

My concern is if I would send in a sub of 100 cards and 50 got Gem Mint under the green label, and if I sent those same 100 cards and got 30 Gem Mint and 20 9.5 under the black label, that's a big net negative for us. Having the "10" is nice, but if it's so much harder to achieve (maybe takes 3x9.5 and 1x10 or better?) then that wouldn't be good. If the Gem standard is still what it was, then I'm very happy with the change.

On 6/4/2022 at 2:52 AM, northkorea said:

That *might* be true. The counterpoint is that they *might* opt for a CSG 9.5 MINT+ over a PSA 9 MINT. I *think* if CSG is able to construct a scenario where people desire a CSG 9.5 as superior to a PSA 9, they're on the right path.

Possibly. But PSA is considered king whether we like it or not (I don't) and it might be a stretch. That said, I am happy to have the 9.5 possibility if some of the previous 9s would be 9.5s under the new label. On the other hand, it seems like 9s will be devalued a bit...

On 6/4/2022 at 9:05 AM, The_Reverend2831694433746 said:

When I hear people complaining about not getting Gem Mint grades from CSG, the first thought I have is “Did you send your best cards to them or the ones you had leftover from your PSA stash. All of the companies grade 90-95% of ultra modern card 9 or higher. 
 

stop sending your less than perfect cards to CSG hoping they will miss those slight imperfections. CSG does not grade harder! It appears that way because of the cards that are sent. As more people stop using CSG as a backup to PSA, we will see their numbers level off. 

Yeah, this may be true. Lately all the cards I send in are going to CSG. Unless it's BOTH a very high value card and looks gem, then I send to PSA. Cheers,

--Kyle

On 6/1/2022 at 10:56 PM, AM Cards said:

My black 9.5-10 rate on my latest sub was about 55% out of 52 cards.  However, I only got 4 10s and a ton of 9.5s.  Wasn't too happy.  But maybe I've gotten complacent and didn't check things over as well before sending this time.  Not sure if I'll be sending much after the price change however.  

So... Were these modern cards? You inspected the cards fairly well before submitting? If so, then yeah, I wouldn't be happy either. IMO this may really hurt CSG. I grade cards to boost value. A 9 for most ultra modern cards tends to sell at the raw price, so not a good result. A 9.5 Gem Mint (green label) was what we all wanted. I sent in about 150 cards to CSG and got probably 60+ Gem 9.5 (Green label) or better (including a few Pristines) because I screened them very carefully. With the new label, Gem Mint should be Gem Mint and not harder to achieve than the 9.5 green Gem. I'm about to send another order. If I only get about 8-15% Gem Mint 10 when my previous Gem rate was 40% or so, then I will never submit with CSG again because I'm not gaining value. People will look at 9.5 Mint + and say oh, that's not even a Gem. I'll buy a BGS 9.5 Gem, PSA 10 Gem, etc. instead...

On 5/9/2022 at 9:33 PM, northkorea said:

I would do the following:

Write an email to customer service. Include photos of the card, stating that you intend to have it reholdered, but you only want to do so if the card will get at least a 9.5 grade on review. There's 0% chance (based upon the rules and tiers, as I understand them) that the card would upgrade to a 10, since the 9 surface plus any other 9.5 grade would preclude the card from getting higher than a 9.5 overall grade. That said, the question becomes "Is it worth $12 to change the green 9+ (for lack of a better explanation) into a black 9.5?"

For me, the answer is probably not. If the fee were simply the $5 reholder fee (or, preferably, free, given you paid for the subs and would be surrendering those), then it's a no brainer. However, for $12, your total outlay for that grade ends up being $35 ($12+$9+$2 for the green grade, plus another $12 for the black grade). Some would argue that most of that is sunk cost, but it really isn't. Think of it this way: "Would you pay someone $12 to trade you a black 9.5 for your green 9+ with subs?"

Edit: In retrospect, it might actually cost you $14 for the regrade, as CSG would likely bill you once again for the $2 auto grade fee.

Thanks for the tip. I might try that with the Hosmer. Thing is, as a regrade, it would have a chance at a 10. If centering is less strict, it could be a 9.5 centering, and thus 3x9.5. 3x9.5 and a 9 would be a 9.5 Gem in the green label (which would be an automatic 10 in the black label). It's a pretty high value card (gold 1st Bowman auto), so I think it's worth the fee for a bump to 9.5. 

On 5/10/2022 at 8:37 AM, oluckydayo said:

For Domiguez and Gronk:  Do you want these for your personal collection or are you looking to resell?  If they're for PC, do whatever you prefer.  If you like the subgrades, consider keeping them.  

If it's for resale, people just don't care about subgrades and a 10 is to your benefit.   There's no reason to keep the 9.5s.

For Hosmer:  A reholder service is not a re-grade review.  If you send that card, you will receive a black slab 9 back.  If you want the card given a possibly higher grade you will need to crack it from the slab and resubmit as a normal grading order.  

 

In this case, yes, all are to sell. I agree with you - just kinda nice showing the Gronk in particular is a half subgrade away from a Pristine... 

I've seen mixed messaging on how the reslab works for cards like the Hosmer. It sounds like they're doing it based on subgrade formulas and centering is less stringent now. So if they do a reslab with a 9 centering, another 9, and two 9.5s like this Hosmer, that might be a formula for an automatic reslab as 9.5. But only CSG knows for sure right now. Thanks,

--Kyle

On 5/9/2022 at 3:02 PM, northkorea said:

It's publicly announced. If they don't "make good" on the 10, have an attorney get involved. They'll correct things faster.

Yeah, Ryan responded in the Ask CSG forum that it was indeed and a mistake and will be reslabbed for him as a 10. I'm sure you saw that, but thought this should be clarified in this thread so people don't worry.

On 5/9/2022 at 2:30 PM, northkorea said:

I'm surprised to see Ryan openly admitting that BGS 9.5s would be eligible for "Min Grade 10" crossovers. Refreshing to see such honesty, even if it likely devalues the brand in the long run.

This just means that you could specify you only want it to be cracked / reslabbed with CSG *if* it would get a 10, right? I don't think he's saying all BGS 9.5 is automatically a CSG 10... Right?

--Kyle

I'm curious what you all think about reslabbing two of these (disregard the Dominguez)... The Gronk will be a 10 of course, so it seems like a no brainer. But it has 2 10 subgrades (one away from Pristine). Would you reslab for the 10? I'm leaning that way, but hate to lose those nice subgrades... 

The Hosmer is a Gold /50. 2x 9.5, 2x9 (one being centering). So I'm thinking about spending it got a reslab and hopefully getting a 9.5 (slim chance at a 10?), but a 9 would seem like a downgrade. Thanks, 

--Kyle 

On 5/9/2022 at 3:28 PM, Warner85 said:

Is this stated on the website? I thought Perfect Green= Perfect black, then gem mint black label is equal to green gem mint and pristine green label.

That's my understanding as well...

On 5/9/2022 at 2:14 PM, northkorea said:

Kyle,

I've been trying to get CSG to acknowledge that since they decided to change the grading scale. So far, the official answer has been "Green Mint 9.5 & Pristine 10 will transition to Black Gem Mint 10. All other cards will have the same grade."

They can't state what you said about the 9 becoming a 10, as that theory of mine is completely contingent on the front centering of the card. During the first generation of the grading scale, back grading was weighted equally with front grading (at least in wording). The new scale definition allows some leeway in front centering, while also making back centering far more liberal.

If you have a centering issue card (let's call them "Green 10 (OC)"), there is a possibility that a lower grade card could transition to a Black 10, if the single issue is 75/25 rear centering.

For a similar reason, the 9*2/X/Y Green 9s can't be given a standardized upgrade to a 9.5.

It would be nice for CSG to explain which two non-nine categories merit a 9.5, but that is likely considered proprietary information.

Thanks for summarizing that! Hopefully they can provide a bit more clarity soon. But yeah, it sounds like cards with centering as the biggest issue have a chance to bump from 9 to 9.5 or 10. I'll take a close look at my 9s and maybe send a couple in with my 9.5s. *Most* of my 170+ CSG cards are lower value that I didn't get subgrades on, so there won't be much point in doing anything with them. Cheers,

--Kyle

On 5/9/2022 at 9:55 AM, CGCRyan said:

@PuraVidaThank you for reaching out to us.  The Scottie Pippen card should have received a Gem Mint 10 in the new label.  It was determined to be an error on our part and the card will be sent back for us to correct.

Grading credit can be used towards the ReHolder service fees. Grading credits exclude shipping and handling charges.

Thank you so much for verifying that. I really appreciate it!

While I have your attention... Is there a formula for cards with subgrades that would cross from 9 to 10 (i.e. 8.5 centering, 3x9.5)? Or from 9 to 9.5 (i.e. 9 centering, 9 of another subgrade and 2x 9.5s)? Thank you!

--Kyle

@CGCRyan Hi Ryan / Admins,

Two quick questions. First, I saw this instance of a green 9.5 Gem Mint reslab becoming a 9.5 Mint Plus in the black label:
https://boards.csgcards.com/topic/1264-fyi-green-label-95-gem-mint-reholdered-as-a-95-mint-by-csg-lower-grade/
Can you confirm this is an error (and would be fixed by CSG) and should not happen if I send my 9.5 Gem Mint green label cards in to be reslabbed? This goes against the stated policy for reslabs. To everyone here, this would be a terrible outcome (paying money for a promised 10 Gem crossover and getting downgraded). I have some high value 9.5 Gem cards and if I sent them in and they became 9.5 Mint Plus, they would lose a lot of value... 

Second, if I have grading credits from purchasing a paid membership, can they be used for the $5 Reslab fees? Thanks!

--Kyle

On 5/6/2022 at 12:43 PM, TheRealKyleMcC said:

It is just an error.  If you contact Customer Service they will send you a prepaid label so you can send the card in and have it slabbed correctly.  As for the different Certification Numbers ALL green label cards will have a new Cert once reslabbed in the new label from my experience of having reslabbed forty or so (of varying grades, including 9.5 to 10s).  The old Cert # will be deactivated at some point in the Pop Report and Registry on CSG's end. 

Are we sure about this? I was just about to renew my membership and pay to reslab my Green 9.5s. But now I'm really scared to do that (pay money for the reslab only to receive downgrades and *lose* value)... 

On 5/7/2022 at 6:16 PM, Warner85 said:

Has anyone had a Perfect 10 since the label change? Or had one reholdered? None on eBay, sold or listings. Would really like to see one if possible. Asked a few times with no response from the CSG admins… Is there a color change to the label with a Perfect 10 or just the subgrades?

I have been wondering this as well. Looked on eBay, don't see any (closing in on a month after your post). 

On 5/8/2022 at 11:00 PM, northkorea said:

Last update was that they didn't settle on a design yet. Realistically, there's no reason for anyone to reholder existing (green) perfect 10s. They have a fixed supply at this point. By contrast, perfect 10 blacks have a limited, yet potentially infinite supply.

Yeah, as Warner mentioned, are they holding Perfect 10 cards until they have the label ready? Or are they slabbing them as Gem Mint? Doesn't make any sense...

--Kyle