Martin Sinescu

Bought a slabbed book from Sean's sales thread and received it in just a few days. Double-boxed and packed with lotsa bubble wrap, so it was rock solid. Definitely recommended for a smooth, worry-free purchase!

For about 2 years I've been keeping an eye out for a perfect 9.4, centering, wrap, page quality, color, but just couldn't find the right one and the prices kept shooting up. I've had pretty good luck with 8.5's that look like 9.6's, so used a pile of 'Bay Bucks to get one that will keep me plenty satisfied until I can get that 9.4....

Nice, thanks! I started building my spreadsheet off of this and never finished. One day I went back to chip away at it some and my link was kaput. Now do I have the energy to start back up again?

I'll take this one.

Yes, very true, although I remember it being 3 weeks. This is why I used to consider the newsstand versions of hot keys as inferior: If a hot book sold out on release day or if something flew under the pre-hype radar and you didn't pick it up the week it came out, the johnny-come-latelys could expect them to be back around in the grocery stores a few weeks later. It just seemed like cheating. I felt you either had to get in on the ground floor or pay the price. Is that weird?

Final results: 9.6 was $2611, 9.4 was $1988 and 9.2 stayed at $1600. Based on GPA the 9.6 went low and the other two were very strong finishers (both look to have topped anything recorded on GPA). Agreed that the 9.2 was very nice, nicest of the bunch as far as presentation IMO.

That's fine, we can, and I'm happy to do so, but would suggest that we consider taking it to the ASM 300 Appreciation Thread or start a new thread in Copper with a poll as to whether it deserves a classic cover consideration or not.

Yup, no disputing that point.... oh wait..... 4. It's original - it's not an idea that's been done and/or seen before.

First, this is a coward's way out. We all have to deal with opposing viewpoints and personalities on message boards and in reality. I have not and will never put anyone on ignore because that's not how reality works and I'm not going to make a message board cozier for me by blocking opposition. Second, if you don't like that I disagree with your argument, then you seriously need to look in the mirror because this started when you took issue with someone making an off-handed comment about ASM 300 being a classic cover and responded with a massive set of instructions with examples on why that person was wrong. You wrapped it up as "Objective" analysis when it was not. That doesn't offend me, but I can see someone setting up a persuasive argument to suit their needs as a way to influence other's opinions, when, again, it is based on virtually only subjective or unprovable criteria. You don't respond to these points, you just frame it as confrontational and personal on my part rather than try to support your statements, that way you can just blow it all off as just some crazy guy with a vendetta. Well done.

Perhaps I could accept your homework invitation and the whole class could come up with our own definitions for a "classic" cover, but this is truly not the place. It's a thread about the Venom movie in which you weirdly decided to deputize yourself as the Sheriff of Everything You Know is Wrong so you could "Rock" the boat by telling everyone the arbitrary standards they should be conforming to for judging a classic cover. It's a total ruse, anyway, as there's so much room for subjectivity and impossible-to-prove points in this objective litmus test you've manufactured for me to just say, "Yes ASM 300 fits all of the criteria, it's a classic" or for me to come up with definitions and you to just refute them all just for the sake of proving a point. A common theme of yours that you use to pigeon-hole people: Forsake nostalgia for dry analysis. Again, it's a ruse: Your detached, scientific approach is just an arbitrary set of rules that you have fabricated. I asked the question because I thought you might respond with some source of art criticism from which you had adopted these principles or perhaps Overstreet had attempted to explain their reasoning, but your emoji showed that you had no interest in backing up these random guidelines which you have taken it upon yourself to interject into this thread about the Venom movie. There is literally no cover that will meet these standards: 1 - Completely unprovable. How in the world are you going to gauge this? Unless you already started back in the late 30's, you aren't. From what you've said on these boards, it seems like you weren't even collecting when ASM 300 came out, or DKR, or Batman 428, so how do you know whether these covers made most people say "holy shnit, wow" when they came out or not? Will your Cap City numbers tell you this? 2 - Subjective, who are you poling? Once you step outside of your own analysis, answers will begin to vary, perhaps even wildly. Again, it's all opinion, this is a subjective judgement, not objective analysis. 3 - Subjective, same reason. Can you even see "the quality of the linework itself"? 4 - Subjective - not an idea that's been seen or done before? What? I can see if you're trying to eliminate cover swipes, but Batman 227 is regarded as a classic (okay, probably not by your standards) and it's not original, so now what? 5 - Completely unprovable and why does it have to be easily understood? Why? 6 - Completely unprovable, how will you gauge multiple generations' reactions upon first encountering it? AND it has to have ALL those qualities?!? Why? Because you're making the rules, that's the only reason. All of these judgements are based on nothing except you setting up a random set of rules to try to prove something that's totally subjective and there's no reason why anyone should have to meet your criteria for their own opinion. If you don't think it's a classic cover, whatever. I think refuting ASM 300 as a classic and turning around and showing DKR 1 as an example of a classic is laugh-out-loud ridiculous, but, since you are the champion of questioning all, I question what you post and see a lot of subjective ego cloaked in scholarly, dry analysis. "Classic" cover is a subjective term. If people want to apply it to a book that doesn't meet "Rock's Law" for classic covers, it's really okay and, again, not really appropriate for this thread. Your bizarre intrusion would've been better suited to bring up in the ASM 300 thread or it's own thread in CG.

Just noticed the 9.4 on CLink is up to $1755 with a day to go, higher than any result I'm seeing in GPA and currently outpacing the Bats 232 9.6 they have listed

I'm curious, from what source is this drawn as the accepted method of determining a classic cover?

I've already said earlier in this thread that I think the service is fairly silly, but does attempt to fill an unfortunate void left by CGC for not acknowledging superior presentation along with the technical grade. Having said that, the last round of CLink auctions I put in bids on two ASM 252's. Both were Direct Sales copies, both had decent enough wraps from what I could tell, both had White Pages. One was in an older case that diminished the colors, one was in a new case where the colors popped. One ended at $600, the other ended for $801. One had a CVA sticker, the other, not so much.... The CVA stickered copy was the winner. It's difficult to say from the scan, but I would actually guess that the CVA one has some color fade at the top right corner (which is common on this book, from the copies I've seen), so I would even argue that it's not so exceptional (although the other copy has what looks like a slight bit of the back cover poking around the corner at the bottom of the spine). Whether the sticker itself actually influenced the winning bidder we don't really know, but when I saw that one closed for $201 more than the other, I had to check each out to see if it was PQ or newsstand. When I saw the sticker I just

This probably would've been better in the thread on when the CA ended, but Spidey seems kind of like a gradual transition between 1992-94, you can definitely still see the post-McFarlane influence for many, many years, but once the gimmick covers started coming, I think there's a definite change (the 30th anniversary hologram covers really stick out in my head from that time period, which would put it just after the intro of Carnage). Then there's the infamous return of the clone in 1994. I had mostly tapered off buying Spidey then (basically I'd just pick up the gimmick covers), but it seemed pretty terrible to me by that point. Thinking back, most of what I collected back then I had really soured on by '94-95 (Batman, X-Men being the main ones).

I buy my mylites and fullbacks from them through Amazon and always get them in 2-3 days. These guys kill it every time.

Not to stray too much from your overall point, but bootlegging vintage figures has already happened with a run of "vintage" stormtrooper figures that started popping up a few years ago (and they're pretty hard to detect if you don't know the specific tells). I'm sure you already know that repro weapons are ubiquitous in the loose figure market, with more and more secretively making their way into collections worldwide every month it seems. There's absolutely money in it, especially if these things can be cranked out for a few cents in China and sold for $5-10 here. There's a diehard community on Imperial Gunnery that are dedicated to finding and documenting fakes as they hit the market to make as many collectors aware as possible. Transformers are just as bad with knock-off figures old and even new as well as vintage packaging. Check out HighEndTFs and see just how prevalent this stuff is. For a grading company to validate, even encourage, these items (which are many times created or distributed to capitalize on less savvy collectors) by "archiving" and labeling it, in my opinion, is irresponsible and not in the best interests of the specific community which they serve (which is one of their selling points, they're in it for the collector). It's not out of character for them, though, as this company also grades, yes actually grades, the infamous Toy Toni carded figures which are one of the biggest scandals to hit the SW community that I can ever remember. Again, legitimizing something created to defraud. Amazing. If nothing else, when they made the decision behind the scenes to start doing this, they should have been upfront with the community in declaring that their "we archive anything" can and will include fake items. Instead they just nonchalantly squeak them out into the hands of collectors and let collectors find out after the fact. Who even knows how long they've been doing this? Now I don't even know if that steak knife they archived is authentic or not! Again, it's expected that a grading/authentication service should be the watchdog against this kind of stuff, not encouraging it. That doesn't fall inline with CGC's policies, I know, but I suspect much of that is down to the age of the hobby, coming from a time period where this sort of stuff may have seemed harmless. I believe with PSA they at least used to reject trimmed cards, so I was amazed to find out that CGC legitimized trimmed and touched-up books. It boils down to the target audience, but for SW collectors, this company was absolutely out of touch with the ethical standards of the majority and good on the community for standing up to them.

The situation involved here would be more analogous to CGC grading (or "archiving", what a joke) a color copy of a comic that you or I made at home, so I don't think the purple label comparison would apply. Not even the Cerebus or TMNT counterfeits would be a like-for-like. Furthermore, the sale of repros, as Joe said, is vehemently opposed in most circles of SW collectors. I'm not sure if Joe pointed it out originally, but the Jawa's vinyl cape, not surprisingly, is also a reproduction. As you say, it's not hard to vaguely misrepresent something like this as legitimate because of the appearance that it's been authenticated and fleece a new collector of their hard-earned cash, maybe even driving them out of the hobby when they realize they've been scammed. This same grading company also recently boasted about "archiving" a steak knife. I'm serious. @comicwiz Thanks for bringing this incident up in this forum -- it's at least reassuring to see SW collectors take a hard line against this and hold them accountable for such irresponsible and hypocritical actions.

Many great points. Adding depth by humanizing or weakening the indestructible super-hero was one of the things Moore and Miller did so well. "Touchable", to borrow from a scene in The Untouchables. I wouldn't say it's necessarily developing them to their fullest potential or perfecting the characters (I would imagine some faithful readers of these characters probably were more attached to the lighter, safer storytelling of previous years when heroes were just heroes), but having a frail, flawed character elevated the stories through a pathos never achieved in previous ages. It paved the way for more powerful, emotional storytelling whereas previous eras tended to be more one-dimensional. Stories like Kraven's Last Hunt and Death in the Family pushed the envelope still further, which is why I think Knightfall and Death of Superman make good bookends for the era: They really seemed like the ultimate realization of the era of weakened warriors (*rimshot*), even if the stories themselves were cheaper, gaudier versions which lacked any of the emotional punch or nuance of Elektra's death, Terra's betrayal or the crippling of Barbara Gordon. By extension, I'd also suggest that the challenging of the status quo of the characters themselves also carried over to McFarlane, Lee, Liefeld and Co. creating Image as an alternative "haven" for creators. Independents thrived (or were ubiquitous, at least) in the Copper Era, but the top talent of the day walking away from BOTH DC and Marvel was the ultimate challenge. Previously creators just went from one company to the other if they weren't happy where they were. This affront really was a slap in the face of the Big Two.

I've been really impressed with the Marvel Legends figures here lately so finally caved in and started buying one here and there. Just added this guy to my collection:

Yes, 100% agree on the post-Implosion marker, which is why when I see TMNT #1 in 1984 as the beginning of the Copper Age I'm like WTF DC is tricky, too, because you get the COIE reboot in the middle of the decade, so some people want to make that the start of the Copper Age but I definitely think there was an earlier shift with the Implosion. It's a mess. I'm definitely in the '80/'81 camp for DC and Marvel (as Divad pointed out, I think the Miller run on DD is pretty Copper and it's also very close to the end of Byrne's hallowed run on X-Men). The New Teen Titans over at DC are, to me, another early landmark of the era. There's a list of markers throughout the period somewhere here on the boards which helps to show how many incremental changes there were throughout the era. I definitely look at Image starting as one of the early signs of a new era, but definitely not the hard cutoff. I do think that the Death of Supes and Knightfall are two other major arcs that are the bookend for Copper.

I get that you're a numbers guy, but Art and Literature are almost universally categorized by eras and genres, not decades. Try to put Ingres and Delacroix in the same room and tell them they're both 1820's artists. It'd be a brawl. Comics are both Art and Literature, so it's only natural that fans/scholars would categorize them the same way. As one of the most knowledgeable members of the boards, your time and input would be quite valuable by contributing to the discussion of which characteristics (beyond New Year's Day of 1980 and 1990) help define certain time periods rather than just stonewalling it with the same response.

Yup. As with the beginning of the Copper Era, there are many things which mark the transition of the end over the course of a couple of years -- the Supes and Bats storylines feel like the hard endpoint of what much of the age was building towards, so that stretches Copper to late 93. I think the founding of Image in 1992 is one of the big markers for the next era, then consider the onslaught of bad-girl books (Lady Death first appeared in 1991) as well as the gimmick cover overload which also started in 1991. Those 3 things all scream "Nineties" to me, so starts to feel outside of Copper. I almost want to put Sandman in the next era as well. Started in 1989 and was really building on the foundation Moore laid much earlier, but was, to me, leaps and bounds ahead of most anything else released at the time. Also was heavily influential in DC's launch of Vertigo in 1993, so photo-Chromium Age (if that's what we're calling it, although it really sounds like an insult to call Sandman a Chromium Age book). The problem is that this in-between era which comes after Copper still hasn't quite found an identity (Era X) and, thus, it's hard to figure out when it starts if it hasn't really found a definition yet.

I would suggest much of what hurt FF48 is the failed attempt to realize the character on the silver screen (ironic) and Fox's overall inability to make much of the FF franchise in general. I wouldn't think that there was ever low to middling demand for his first appearance, but it did seem like that "next level" of popularity beyond the printed page was outside of his potential until the current merger spec.

I think it's flawed to assume all these thousands of people want a CGC-graded copy of a first appearance. We are a small niche of comic fandom.

Packing is great, never had anything damaged, and the individual boxes they use for graded books are the best.