Bio-Rupp

A little surprised by your answer. I thought we were discussing HOS and there needs to be more issues than what has been discussed so far. MightyJohnny kept referring to "the list" of issues. I agree on the PL and I do not see how I am diminishing anything. When someone says he's got issues with delivering items to several people, it doesn't help clarify the scope of people impacted by calling something like the Medina sketch opp a "single" instance. There's something like 10 sketches that have been done, completed, and waiting to be sent to CGC to make it back into the hands of the people who bought and paid for them long long ago. They are ALL impacted, they all have an issue, gripe, and are in need to Menace to get off the pot and do what was promised. Every single person has an individual agreement with Menace. Each one paid, individually, for the service that was promised. Each one of them is owed, individually, the full and complete service they bought and paid for without unreasonable delay. All I meant was, calling the sketch opp. with anywhere from 6-10 people waiting, unreasonably, for the books to get sent to CGC just "one" issue, gives the reader the impression that it's just one small problem. It's more effective, to determine the scope of what needs to be done to help these people to not lump things into a pile if the lumping leads to calling something like the Medina sketch opp. just one issue. It's not your intention to do so, but that's what's coming across by fighting the semantic definition of "issues". That's all I meant. Interesting. In the context of a HOS discussion I think it is very relevant to differentiate. 10 different transactions all with the same undesireable result could be worthy of HOS while this one issue affecting 10 is not. He should be on the PL until he makes it right. There is nothing I have seen posted here to suggest his intention is to rip people off. A little surprised by your answer. I thought we were discussing HOS and there needs to be more issues than what has been discussed so far. MightyJohnny kept referring to "the list" of issues. I agree on the PL and I do not see how I am diminishing anything. When someone says he's got issues with delivering items to several people, it doesn't help clarify the scope of people impacted by calling something like the Medina sketch opp a "single" instance. There's something like 10 sketches that have been done, completed, and waiting to be sent to CGC to make it back into the hands of the people who bought and paid for them long long ago. They are ALL impacted, they all have an issue, gripe, and are in need to Menace to get off the pot and do what was promised. Every single person has an individual agreement with Menace. Each one paid, individually, for the service that was promised. Each one of them is owed, individually, the full and complete service they bought and paid for without unreasonable delay. All I meant was, calling the sketch opp. with anywhere from 6-10 people waiting, unreasonably, for the books to get sent to CGC just "one" issue, gives the reader the impression that it's just one small problem. It's more effective, to determine the scope of what needs to be done to help these people to not lump things into a pile if the lumping leads to calling something like the Medina sketch opp. just one issue. It's not your intention to do so, but that's what's coming across by fighting the semantic definition of "issues". That's all I meant. It seems like that until any of those other 9 people complain about the sketch opp, its still only one instance of probation list worthy behavior. I do agree that if the opp is late in being processed by Menace that it will indeed affect ALL 10 people... its just that until let's say person #8 comes forward and states "yes I've been screwed", then he technically hasn't been. Perhaps the other nine are willing to be more patient... or maybe each one knows Menace personally and realizes he will come through. Possibly he contacted each one of them via email and forgot about JDUB... no one knows. Based on Menace's willingness to refund J DUB's money after it was brought here should at least let those other nine people know that the probability of getting their opp ...or at least their money back... is high.

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll. I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines. Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues. He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace. AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace? No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation. Were you reimbursed any money out of pocket for this transaction? Eventually, so what you are saying is that as long as Menace refunds someone he screwed over then it's OK and he should be allowed to keep doing it? How about in Jdubs case where Menace received the book back in July, he then ignored pm's, emails, and facebook message from Jdub and didn't respond or refund him until the after he was added to the probie thread this week? Nope I'm not saying that at all. I am asking if you feel that he is the "worst" this board has to offer in terms of being a seller ?

I think the probelm with getting this kind of change in place is that there's no regulation on a thread, and they would quickly turn into a downward spiraling festival of modifier notifications and scrubbings, and CGC mods understandably dont want to get into that business. Think of all the administration surrounding ebay feedback... and they are BUILT for this kind of stuff. CGC Message boards arent. I agree it would be useful, but the overhead/admin makes it near-impossible to implement. +1 We really should consider ourselves lucky they continue to allow us to sell here at all

I agree. It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else." We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning. What about the people who've been on the PL more than once? I don't really like the idea of people getting off scott free just because they make amends only because they got caught. As we both know, people's memories can get very short when it comes to cool books. You just don't want to soften what the HOS is supposed to mean by the inclusion of folks who will find better and more effective corrective action taken against them in other areas. What I mean is, for someone who fails to provide the correct service in the SS facilitation arena, it would seem the most effective way to prevent that from happening again is to not provide him with the permissions necessary to allow that to happen again. It's more of a "Right Hammer for the Right Nail" situation. Is it wrong to pray that Menace gets an exclusive Byrne OP so that Logan's head explodes? ]

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll. I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines. Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues. He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace. AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace? No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation. Were you reimbursed any money out of pocket for this transaction?

Awesome transaction from start to finish. Books graded spot on and shipped safely and quickly. If I were going to date men... then I'd date Kasper xxx ooo Rupp

I personally think your idea is great in theory Jaybuck... its been brought up in different forms before. Dr. Balls and I had a similar idea months back that simply used the existing kudos thread and a simple green check for completed transactions that went off without a hitch... and a simple red check for completed transactions that occurred with problems. We stated that a "completed" transaction as to pertaining to a agreement that had an end result in either the buyer getting what he/she ordered... or getting a refund. It was left up to whoever read the kudos to privately PM the person who left the feedback and ask their opinion on how the transaction went. All of this fully within the guidelines that CGC has put forth for a Kudos thread. Your idea is just as good as any other... only problem is it adds another step of complexity that CGC just doesn't want to deal with concerning an area that we are supposed to self police.

Not taking sides...and really don't mean to get all "Roy" here...but I'm not ready to vote just yet. I'm seeing Menace as an individual who has had some problems getting his sig opp to go in a linear pattern. Problems with CGC grades, mis-mailings, emails & PMs weren't answered and communication with buyers appears to have been ziltch. It appears to be a lot of problems J DUB bought his issue with Menace here... and he has been made whole via a late ( EXTREMELY LATE ) refund. Seller has acknowledged his slack... and fulfilled the aspect of a return. That said, shouldn't HOS be reserved for the truly "worst of the worst"? Does Menace really represent that aspect of the hobby? I just can't say that he does... at least not yet. While Menace hasn't won any new customers over here... or old one's for that matter... has he REALLY shown the "worst" of what it is to be included on this list? Let's use an example... Nothing against Anthony Castrillo... but if it wasn't for Speedy taking his own time (on repeated occasions)... then wouldn't AC would be burning in HOS hell right now for non-return of opps and way overdue refunds? I believe so. He's not on the list... nor has he ever been that I can remember. All I'm saying is mistakes and delays do happen... and sometimes happen repeatedly. It's how you handle them when they arise is what brings your character into play. Menace could have responded sooner, which is on him... but did he make J DUB whole again? It appears he did, regardless of weather he did it only because he was threatened with inclusion on either the PL or HOS list. I have no idea All I see is someone who had his discretion brought to his attention in this thread, and him correcting his mistake. I understand J DUB's frustration too. A friend and I chased Rich Buckler for over three years trying to get a pre-paid commission completed. So I can relate to why he is upset. Now if I'm missing something and Menace didn't make it right concerning other buyers in a previous SS opp, meaning a return or a refund to any participants in said previous SS opp... then he undoubtedly needs to be on a list. PL / HOS or not... people are definitely now aware of possible problems regarding Menace's ability to fulfill orders concerning SS opps. This rash of board problems lately (Symbiotic, Solarcadet and now Menace) has really brought out a mob rules mentality as of late. Should each of these examples be chalked up as inexperienced seller mistakes or out and out moronic decisions? Who knows? I, personally, just can't muster up enough spew to score them as anything but being extremely unprofessional in matters concerning selling here. All that said...one thing that I do not like is any accused seller/buyer acting nonchalant or flippant about a problem being brought to the PL discussions board. I would HIGHLY advise anyone who's transaction has been put in question and discussed here, to treat said discussion AND THIS THREAD with respect. After all, this is YOUR public "trial" and how you handle yourself here will definitely determine any outcome that occurs. Maybe I am getting a more "Royistic" view of things as of late... I'm not sure. All I do know is if the accused tries to make amends, even after repeated mistakes, at least he's trying... and not all is lost regarding his character. xxx ooo Rupp

If I ever need pics of ANYONE... I'm callin' Boscoe

Those are the rules. (thumbs u I read that but no where does it state a rule for waiting 30 days for something you paid for. Or is it more of a "rule of thumb" per-say? this thread explains the 30 days rule. I read that and quite honestly it's so dang vague. Doesn't state anything about buyer never receiving what they paid for and can't file dispute without waiting 30 days. Those rules just seems to mean both parties have 30 days to fully complete the transaction prior to nominating those involved to the probation list. No where does it state that jumping the gun to file a dispute is a no no but seems like it's more of a rule of thumb to not jump the gun. However in my case I felt it was more than fair as I have asked twice and the third time was to file a dispute to start the process with a mediator in between which is paypal to moderate the issue. Just know that "jumping the gun" in regards to filing disputes will upset some sellers here. That may be enough for some sellers not to sell books to you anymore. It's not necessarily fair, but a few sellers don't want to deal with people they feel may cause them headaches. WOW?!? Seriously? Now that is not fair but then again it's their property and they can choose who they do business with or not but still trying to punish somebody for protecting themselves because they filed a dispute can be considered extortion. It's like saying, "oh you paid? Well I have 30 days to send it out or provide tracking so you can't do anything until then." PhoKing, This place is a little more relaxed than other selling sites around the net. The 30 day rule gives leeway for both buyer and seller to complete a transaction. So even if life gets in the way... transactions usually can be completed. It's not really used as an "extortion based option" until you get down to the wire concerning payment or shipping... it's just how it works here, and it's done well at keeping everyone honest. You've only been here since mid August and it's just a simple oversight mistake concerning a common rule. Joey is refunding you and you aren't going to be stuck with two copies of the same book. Angels are singing as we type and Christmas is coming too It's all good in the scenario... and you learned a pretty important piece of information about buying and selling here in the future. xxx ooo Rupp

Seems like a refund would eliminate a lot of harsh back and forth regardless of who's more in the right. No reason you two can't walk away from this as friends xxx ooo Rupp

What the hell did I just read

No offense to Mike... but I can't understand the "Yoda on Acid' dialect he's typing to understand what he wants or expects from you. Is he wanting you to send the book back... and then they pay for it again? Or is he stating "yes I got your refund, but you still stole it from us so send it back and we will pay for it".

I just wanted to agree with Bio-Rupp here and say that I've had multiple transactions with Frank over a number of years. There has NEVER been an issue. Over 6 years of buying, selling, and sometimes trading here, I could probably come up with 10 sellers that I would buy from in an instant, even without pics. Frank is definitely one of them. Yep... dealt with Frank quite a few times in both buying and selling. Always a pleasure. Appears there is a breakdown with the buyer over the refunded #55. If I'm reading the buyer's Old English semantics properly, it appears they believe its still paid for on "Invoice #23". This appears to be why they won't continue with payment for the other goods held. Frank has already stated he refunded amount paid for this book due to a simple shipping mistake. Perhaps a reminder email including a Paypal screenshot of the refund will make this buyer whole again. Honestly, if Frank shows him proof of refund, then buyer is out nothing and can just re-buy the book with the refunded money. On the other hand, if the buyer doesn't accept this... then chances are he is just trying to get out of the remainder of the sale. If this is the case, then that's very unprofessional, buyer behavior... and Frank is 100% right in bringing the matter here. If buyer doesn't see fit to honor his obligations to Frank after this reminder, I say PL list is a viable option for Frank.

So basically all this amounts to buyer's remorse at the expense of an honest seller.

PREACHER # 1 - CGC 9.8 - WHITE PAGES - This is a NO RESERVE AUCTION ! http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7178765#Post7178765 Ends Tuesday night !

Hate all this happened to jop (John) Honestly the ONLY way you can really protect yourself with online transactions is by paying with a credit card through Paypal. This isn't foolproof either... but we as buyers should know that it's pretty much the safest way available to us right now. Unless you really know who you are buying from, other payment choices... including Paypal Personal, should never be an option to pay with. I personally will not use Paypal Personal or any other payment option that doesn't involve protection through my credit card company for a larger ticket internet purchase... ever. I see no real reason why a unproven seller worth his weight in pogs cannot allow this. I would prefer even seasoned sellers allow this as well, but that is their choice and then my choice to deal with them. That statement above doesn't mean I'm stating that they are bad, unscrupulous sellers, but they need to know that isn't that 3% charge you get from Paypal worth putting your buyers mind's at ease when they are handing you potentially thousands of dollars? I think it is... and I think that the safer a buyer feels when dealing with you... the more likely he is going to continue to shop with you. Sad thing is even when you think you know who you're dealing with, they are just one bad cup of coffee away from snapping and screwing you out of your money I hate pointing that out, but it's an unfortunate fact of the world we live in. All the discussion about post counts, time frames to begin buying and selling, etc isn't going to help a hill of beans concerning transactions here and alternative payment options. Arch and the powers that be have made it as safe as they possibly can within the confines of basically a chat board. I'd say they assume that common sense will prevail here and we will be able to manage it ourselves. I hate it when good folks like John ( or anybody for that matter ) get taken concerning an internet sale, its hard enough to have faith in any payment system when this type of thing happens. Use your credit card through Paypal to protect yourself until a proven, better option comes along.

I'd say dropping a simple PM to explain the mistake would be enough... hypothetically

We have certain "banned" members who create shills all the time. My guess is, that it was one of those. My guess, too. Another installment in the "Revenge of the Recently Banned" serial. Still would be nice to know who it was...

Personally I feel that if someone starts a shill account, then BOTH accounts should be banned. There is absolutely no viable reason for a member to have a shill account here. xxx ooo Rupp

Great transaction from start to finish ! xxx ooo Rupp

I can think of 2 reasons... 1) Hide true ownership 2) Prevent a potential buyer from finding a previous exact sale price using the serial number. xxx ooo Rupp

Enjoyed this weeks episode of AOS immensely. The team is starting to gel... which is what I was hoping would happen Personally thought the skyfall scene was pretty darn exciting too. xxx ooo Rupp

This is unreal. When he sent a PM stating he was a down-on-his-luck guy selling off his comics, I was thinking maybe there was a mistake. When I found the picture and posted that in the PM, I couldn't believe that was the response I received. ... well his name was "slick" Rick