Mr. Zipper

I think you guys are overthinking it. There’s absolutely no need to reverse engineer CGC slabs and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process. There’s already millions of CGC slabs in existence. They can buy $25 slabbed books off of eBay all day long and figure out how to take it apart with minimal damage and then reassemble to hide the broken posts. They don’t need to be perfect and fool the most savvy and eagle eyed dealers and collectors. They just need to find that one person.

I think it's suspect. The right edge looks roughed up like it may have been trimmed (razor snags). Looking at the profile of the right edge, are the cover and inside pages perfectly flush and straight... like a chop cut? If so, that is not a good sign.

Oil from fingers.

And no one is arguing that better security isn't a good thing. You always need to be building a better mousetrap. Don't project my comments on this particular instance onto a [different] higher level discussion of "how companies should improve to ensure security"

Who is blaming the victim? There is more of a "blame CGC" vibe because someone didn't notice a cracked case with a blown out corner and the crack filled with glue. I think everyone has empathy for the victim and hopes the scumbag scammer gets caught. But in reality, all of the CGC security measures in the world won't help if potential buyers don't bother to carefully examine the items they are buying.

If I were CGC my response would be that our safeguards worked. The case is obviously tampered with. I mean seriously... who thinks this looks ok? There is no criminal mastermind here peddling undetectable fakes. It's a cracked case that looks like it's been smoothed over with a butter knife and some sort of epoxy. The CGC blaming is a bit much.

Seriously? It’s obvious the corners have been tampered with. So this is a garden variety crack the case and slip in a fake label and book? Not exactly an undetectable counterfeit

That’s the big question. Is the case fake or is it a repurposed used real case? Or did a quantity of real unused cases go missing?

Correct. Fake Chinese slabs of fake Morgan Dollars have been around for a while. The coin grading companies adapted. Seasoned collectors know what to look for. It’s a never ending game of building a better mousetrap. Too much money involved for crooks not to try. I’m just surprised it took so long with comics.

Certainly there are subtle differences in the font and kerning. And at least one other thing I noticed. It's easy to spot when you have a side-by-side. Not so much if you don't.

High value collectibles and slabs in every area of collectibles are counterfeited. Yet the authentication/grading companies make it a lot more difficult and raise the barrier of entry to scammers. Are you saying less fraud would be occurring in their absence?

That waviness is quite bad and frankly means that you have a long way to go before you should be pressing books of value and submitting them. That is pressing 101 not to have the waves.

This is why I would not buy a pricey book without first examining high res photos. CGC is quite reliable, but they are not perfect and we have all seen pics of obvious overgrades. If I was paying for a 9.6 label, I'd want a 9.6 book. I am NOT saying this is the OP, but we all know there are sellers who dump bad looking books with nice looking labels using the old "no refund on CGC books" policy. I don't want to be the sucker left holding the hot potato.

Highly doubtful. Based on those styles, Ayers and Sinnott look like 90s or early 2000s signature styles. The Kirby would have to predate those. Also, who would add Ayers and Sinnott to this book BEFORE adding Jack and Stan? Doesn't add up. Another thing I didn't mention is that there is no personalization is a red flag. Jack often signed "Best Wishes to Joe" (or whatever). Not conclusive on its own, but another red flag to throw on the pile. In my experience, if one has to twist yourself into a pretzel trying to explain away red flags, there's likely a problem. Instead, take the Occam's Razor approach and reach the conclusion that, at the least, the Kirby is suspect.

Good eye @eee91. I agree with your assessment. The first is an unskilled tonfulle-84 fake. The second is more deceptive, but in my opinion it is signed too carefully and deliberately. Possibly a skilled trace job? In my opinion, the jury is still out on the Lee. The Kirby is of the most concern. The book was published in 1987. By 1987, Kirby's signature had deteriorated significantly. Yet, the signature and sentiment in the book is a late 60s / 70s style signature. The location of the signatures is a big clue. You have modern Ayers and Sinnott con signed signatures on the title page. If it was real, based on the signature styles, Kirby and Lee would have had to have signed first. And if Kirby and Lee signed first, why would they be on the page facing the title page? Doesn't add up.

Generally, the TPAs recognize and reject tonfulle-84’s creations. However, it would not be surprising if a few have slipped through.

No doubt there are a lot of criminals making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year selling poor worthless fakes. Desperate collectors looking for bargains is a target rich environment.

If you search on him, he has been exposed on this site and in plenty of other high profile forums. What a lot of autograph scammers do when they are exposed on eBay is they start distributing through etsy, local auction houses, antique shops, etc. It's too much money to just walk away from.

Has anyone found a similar substitute for the fullbacks? I really hate the thought of a brown back... plus I often write the grade and notes on the back of the board in pencil. Bags Unlimited has a similar thick buffered board, but the cost...

Like most, if not all, government programs, there are those in real need who receive assistance. And regrettably those who abuse the system.

True. I work at a large global corporation. For a long time, every December, I was scrambling to spend money because it was use it, or lose it in the biz unit’s following year budget. Really stupid old schooL mentality, but that’s the way it worked. A new CEO and chief financial officer came in and we went to zero based budgeting, so the use it or lose it approach went away. That said, I do have friends who work in the public sector, and it sounds a lot worse and more rampant there. When you have the power of taxation, it’s a bottomless wallet and people are a lot more irresponsible.

You seem like the type to report the nickel you picked up in the parking lot. If not, you're a "tax fraud" by your own standards. Most other people live their lives using reasonable standards that follow the spirit, if not exact letter of the law. And that includes not worrying about occasional small amounts of revenue generated by selling used goods. There were few, if any, complaints about the prior threshold because it seemed to fairly make a distinction from people who actually had a small biz side hustle and grandma selling her Hummels. That distinction was wiped away by the $600 threshold.

I get that some of the folks here who are dealers, or treat the hobby like a business… This may seem like no big deal. You might have all the paperwork. For the pure collector who has been collecting for decades and not treating it like a busIness… buying from places that don’t offer receipts… Garage sales… Flea markets… Conventions and not keeping track… It’s a royal pain in the rear end.

This. To go from $20,000 to $600 is absolutely absurd. A desperate money grab at garage sale type income. Who out there has receipts for all the $20 comic books they bought over the decades? Or even the hundred dollar comics? So what are you supposed to do when it comes time to sell if you don’t have a receipt? Just take the hit and pay taxes on 100% of it or make up your own receipts and hope that you don’t get hammered if you should be audited?

Serious question. Are there newsstand editions that are indistinguishable from direct editions? If not, what value does the notation on the CGC label add if it is stating the obvious? Are there collectors who will pay more for a slabbed "newsstand" copy because it has the label notation?