vaillant

@Ogami: What are "educated eyes"? Are you referring to the form? I think this goes without saying, no?

Addenda: Having read selected passages, I have to make some observations. The first comes regarding the fact of certain foreign readers preferring the original edition. I think the comparision between the original US versions and the UK editions may be pretty misleading. The reason for this is the language. Besides the different shades of American English and British (or Australian) english, we are speaking of the same language, and to me it seems natural that the US original is preferred over a UK edition, which in many cases can be simply seen as a slightly different reprint, even if the UK edition had a considerably lower print run. Choosing a local edition in another language is an entirely different matter. Of course, I can speak for Italy only, but Italy is an interesting case. I assure you the majority (I would say a good 90-95%, to feel safe) of italian readers collectors have developed an interest in the original editions only because the publisher which used to print Marvel went out of business (around 1982-83). We had to wait up to 1987-90 (excluding isolated exceptions, and attempts) to have once again a publisher (or more) consistently translating Marvel titles. It appears the interest for original editions was mostly motivated by the absence of italian translations, and this was the case for many readers, which stopped buying originals as the local editions restarted on a continued basis. But there was a part of readers (me included) which may represent a pretty smaller percentage, which became so fascinated with the original editions by getting to see and know them, that decided to privilege the originals. This, in my opinion, which is also corroborated by documented facts, since I have lived the phenomenon between 1983 and now, has little to do with the Internet. Of course, the Internet made possible a kind and a scope of collecting which was unthinkable before, but speaking of Italy the two points you have made up (the Internet influence and English literateness supported by educational systems abroad) are not so consistent. We are not – generally speaking – an "English literate" population. Up to the 1960s-1970s, French and German were often preferred over English to be taught in school. I was speaking the other day with a priest (born in 1924) and from what I get, people of that generation, even people which studied, used to learn French (besides Latin and Greek) at their best (German was out of the question, since our alliance with nazi Germany was problematic to say the least). My generation (born 1969) became more accustomed to English, thanks also to professional or hobby-related issues (informatics and music come to mind), but in general I would say the majority of readers in Italy prefer collecting italian translated editions. Younger people (teenagers up to people in their mid-20s) prefer japanese comics (feeling probably some specific affinity due to many factors), but the more limited audience of younger readers and collectors go always for the italian translated editions. These are my considerations, for now.

I really need to read your great article in full, but I try to explain my collecting reasoning for now. I thought it was clear from my post that it’s out of a question to me: the original edition is not only the most important (for whatever reason corroborating the choice) but it is – the word says it all – "original". When I started picking up comic books in original edition I found difficulties in reading them because my english skills were still immature, but I found the edition "as it should be". As marmat ("ehilà, chissà se ci conosciamo!" ) explained, Editoriale Corno (the publisher which printed most of the Marvel silver age, for the US collectors, here) made the choice of having fortnight (instead of montlhy) publications, with two/three stories for issues. Finding the original, I saw how the publication was conceived in its original form. With all the correct indicia, original lettering, choice of number of pages, kind of paper, et al. And this meant the most to me, although, for various reasons, one can be highly affectioned to a translated local edition (I am speaking 360° here, I mean this also for – say – a Tintin album in english, or a McKay's "Future Comics" issue with a "Saturno contro la Terra" episode). So, to cut a long story short: as I started collecting original comic books, I stopped collecting italian editions, and as a result all my collections aren’t complete (except for "I Fantastici Quattro" which I had almost completed before switching). Of course, I occasionally buy some italian old issue, but I think most of this comes from the affection you have for it, because it‘s part of your own personal story, but as the original edition can be properly read and understood, and it’s affordable and reachable, I see little point in choosing it over a translation. If it’s an issue I am affectioned with, I would probably keep both, but having to choose, I’d surely choose the original.

Very interesting, I will have to read it. Especially because it’s – as it’s often the case with you US collectors – written from your collecting perspective alone. I am Italian, and I started to collect comics in original edition around 1988. Recently I have started collecting golden age and I have found how interesting is to compare the different countries comics' productions. Besides this, I always prefer to buy an original edition, and I keep the italian one (which, for you, would be the english one) when I can’t read the original. Considering foreign editions of american comic book characters becomes very interesting (I speak for Italy) when we try to locate early translations of golden age material. Super-rare publications, occasionally unauthorized, often re-traced or heavily handled, and so on… But, above all, it’s the historical context which interests me…

What I think Bodhi396 meant – mostly – is not that a higher grade book is not better, and more desirable to collect (I think this goes without saying for most objects, even books or objects with a story, of course), but simply that sometimes there are VF books (and even F books) which are awesome looking, and it is highly disputable when a 9.8 is assigned over, say, a 9.4. Honestly, I think the system of numeric grading has its advantages (here in Italy, many sellers have a generic very wide "range" and by saying a book is "perfect" they could mean a F up to a NM), but it has also a high number of disadvantages. To me, it is systematic and professional, but it fuels a collecting frenzy which can make you lose your sense of proportions. Not to mention you will never find early prewar and interwar italian publications in high grade: they simply do not exist, because the paper and overall manufacturing process was a lot worse than in the US. I have an original japanese Astro Boy supplement from the "golden age" of the character (the 1950s, since japanese comics bloomed in their modern form after the war) and it looks inflinitely more fragile and "cheap" than a golden age comic book.

@Stevenrams: One o my favorite covers, because of the gracious humour, so different from most of what was being printed back then. I hope to get a copy some day…

Great thread, very useful to know about the sales…

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply. In fact, my interest in golden age comic books was fueled by a research I started on italian comics of the inter-war period, up to 1948 (in 1948 we had a very important general election which excluded communist parties from the government). See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_general_election,_1948 (I don’t know if the Wikipedia english entry is biased: it’s just for reference; the forces in play were not merely political interest, as soviet communism had ideological atheist premises). Italian humorous artist Benito Jacovitti drew, for the elections of 1948, an amazing anti-communist deck of play cards which was distributed before the elections. See also here: http://www.tonidirossi.it/pubblicartomania/c_116.htm I’ve been able to put together "This Godless Communism" relatively easily since I wasn’t after high-grade copies (which would be waaay out of my wallet anyway).

@esquirecomics: Are you a dealer? Sorry for the question, but I am italian and quite new on the forum. Indeed, the Canadian edition of "Is this tomorrow is very nice". I have just collected the entire run of "This godless communism" by Reed Crandall from The Catechetical Guild.

Great thread, helps a lot with the research I found myself fascinated by… Hmm… It’s not so linear. I would not venture in such schematizations. And history books can be pretty misleading, since they tend to look more often just at external facts, than to the person. In fact, this kind of research presents itself to me (I am italian) as a fascinating quest in history, since it can be done from all angles, and through the privileged means of comics' fiction. Problem is Germany did not have a comics tradition, and Japan matured its own "more modern" approach after the war. Recently we have had a landmark study on the subject of fascist policy vs. the comics medium, conducted by some friends of mine. The book, of course, is in italian, and focuses on the syndicated strips production (which were the ones started, with Flash Gordon, to be published in large comics "newspapers" in the early 1930s (Superman made his debut on the pages on one of these)). The book is titled "Eccetto Topolino" (Except Mickey Mouse), a title which refers to a supposed clearance Mussolini gave to the Walt Disney productions (his sons read comics), and to the general indulgence with which Disney and humor comics were tolerated as the MinCulPop (Ministry for the Popular Culture, a fascist institution) up to 1943. After that, the only publication which almost did not cease publication due to those restrictions applied to American comics was "Il Vittorioso", a weekly tabloid which published comics entirely written & drawn in Italy. Here we had, among the many features, "Romano il legionario", a more patriotic than actually fascist hero which could be seen as a sort of italian counter-part to your Air-fighter comics genre (Blackhawk, Airboy, etc.). A lot more realistic, too, he was created by Kurt Caesar, which had singular positions towards nazist Germany and the alliance. "Eccetto Topolino" studies all the story, up to the "liberation" of comics, and the restoration of the balloons (the use of balloons was prohibited by MinCulPop), up to the end of the war. Here's the cover: