Lunchbox-migration

And there goes Stu not answering the simple question of "why".

 

Why not?

There you go big guy.

I know how you talk.

You've never heard me speak in your life. You'd love my accent. Latah!

How would my scale be any different? Two ways: get rid of the Gem Mint B.S label, Mint is fine, and I'd get rid of the split grades. Obviously accepting the removal of split grades would be the big problem. But if you were to accept it, nothing much else would change. You'd still have NM+ (9.6), NM (9.4) and NM- (9.2). They just wouldn't be actual decimal grades anymore, they'd be regular ("lower") grades. But they're still basically the same thing.

 

Are you saying that you'd rather have letters than numbers represent the grades?

 

No, I'd have both, like CGC used to.

 

Why? (Obvious question)

 

So obvious, in fact, there's no need to take the bait.

 

 

It's obvious now that you think I'm baiting you but I'm not. You likely think so because that is the way you have discussions with people.

With people like you, you mean. Go ask someone like Sha if this is how I have discussions with her.

I'm asking why you'd rather have numbers than letters.

I believe I specifically said I'd have both numbers and letters on the label?

Anybody above the age of 6 years of age understands a graduated scale of 1-10.

Are you using a Senko rigged wacky style or a jig here?

Only people who have learned how to grade understand a numerical grading scale. It's like a secret code.

Did you mean Alpha here?

 

I would guess 90% of the angst in this hobby stems from the ridiculous notion of grading paper down to tenths of a point. A system that would have left well enough alone by grading steps that went 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.0 would eliminate a very large portion of the "problems" which produce dozens of threads here. But to point out such reality makes you a heretic, and so it goes.

 

 

It's not heresy. It's simply not reality.

There is an obvious visual difference between 9.0, 9.2, 9.4, 9.6 and 9.8.

 

.....

 

Important note to myself: Never buy high grade books from anyone that thinks there isn't a need for a two point system above 9.0

 

 

How would my scale be any different? Two ways: get rid of the Gem Mint B.S label, Mint is fine, and I'd get rid of the split grades. Obviously accepting the removal of split grades would be the big problem. But if you were to accept it, nothing much else would change. You'd still have NM+ (9.6), NM (9.4) and NM- (9.2). They just wouldn't be actual tenths of grades anymore, they'd be regular ("lower") grades. But they're still basically the same thing.

 

Your scale is fine till you get to higher grades (9.0) and at that point there is a need (at least in my opinion) for a finer division of grades. It doesn't really matter what you call them. You can change it to "Ripe" "Just right" or "Butt ugly".

 

You can stand back and say how far do you think that is? Someone might say "about a yard". Get a little closer and it might be "two and half feet plus or minus" and so on, but as it gets more refined it's going to get down to "Two feet seven and 7/8""

Of course if it's something that can be measured more precisely it should be.

 

That's where I'll give Bookery some credit. It's a paper product. The scale should only be so fine. Once there was a 100 point system. It was way to fine for comic books, but to say there should only be three grade points in the higher end is not logical. It is finer than that and physically measurable.

Good post. I don't totally agree, but that's... okay.

How would my scale be any different? Two ways: get rid of the Gem Mint B.S label, Mint is fine, and I'd get rid of the split grades. Obviously accepting the removal of split grades would be the big problem. But if you were to accept it, nothing much else would change. You'd still have NM+ (9.6), NM (9.4) and NM- (9.2). They just wouldn't be actual decimal grades anymore, they'd be regular ("lower") grades. But they're still basically the same thing.

 

Are you saying that you'd rather have letters than numbers represent the grades?

 

No, I'd have both, like CGC used to.

 

Why? (Obvious question)

So obvious, in fact, there's no need to take the bait.

How would my scale be any different? Two ways: get rid of the Gem Mint B.S label, Mint is fine, and I'd get rid of the split grades. Obviously accepting the removal of split grades would be the big problem. But if you were to accept it, nothing much else would change. You'd still have NM+ (9.6), NM (9.4) and NM- (9.2). They just wouldn't be actual decimal grades anymore, they'd be regular ("lower") grades. But they're still basically the same thing.

 

Are you saying that you'd rather have letters than numbers represent the grades?

No, I'd have both, like CGC used to.

 

I would guess 90% of the angst in this hobby stems from the ridiculous notion of grading paper down to tenths of a point. A system that would have left well enough alone by grading steps that went 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.0 would eliminate a very large portion of the "problems" which produce dozens of threads here. But to point out such reality makes you a heretic, and so it goes.

 

 

It's not heresy. It's simply not reality.

There is an obvious visual difference between 9.0, 9.2, 9.4, 9.6 and 9.8.

 

.....

 

Important note to myself: Never buy high grade books from anyone that thinks there isn't a need for a two point system above 9.0

 

How would my scale be any different? Two ways: get rid of the Gem Mint B.S label, Mint is fine, and I'd get rid of the split grades. Obviously accepting the removal of split grades would be the big problem. But if you were to accept it, nothing much else would change. You'd still have NM+ (9.6), NM (9.4) and NM- (9.2). They just wouldn't be actual tenths of grades anymore, they'd be regular ("lower") grades. But they're still basically the same thing.

Important note to myself: Never buy high grade books from anyone that thinks there isn't a need for a two point system above 9.0

I'm guessing you don't own any Wizard First slabs?

I would guess 90% of the angst in this hobby stems from the ridiculous notion of grading paper down to tenths of a point. A system that would have left well enough alone by grading steps that went 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.0 would eliminate a very large portion of the "problems" which produce dozens of threads here. But to point out such reality makes you a heretic, and so it goes.

It's obvious a real 10 point system (20 point system) doesn't really work for CGC, as they had to manipulate it to fit their business model and add 5 more grades. The tenths of a point you mention, the awkward 1.8 grade crowbarred in, and the ignoring of the lower grades (Fair+ is a real grade folks) are a few examples.

My problem is also with split grades, and using them in conjunction with the "+/-" grades. Split grades were invented in the 90s by dealers who either a) couldn't grade that well or b) were trying to get more for a book than it was worth. Every time I saw a "VF/NM" grade in CBG I'd laugh. There is (was) no grade between VF+ and NM-. If you can't decide if a book is a NM- or a VF+, it's a VF+. Before CGC, if you bought a book that was VF/NM, it was usually closer to VF(+) than NM(-), no? Yes. Just another way for a dealer to "hype" his book by getting the term "NM" into the grade somewhere/somehow.

I'd much rather have a 20 point system like this:

10.0 Mint

9.5 NM+

9.0 NM

8.5 NM-

8.0 VF+

7.5 VF

7.0 VF-

6.5 Fine+

6.0 Fine

5.5 Fine-

5.0 Very Good+

4.5 Very Good

4.0 Very Good -

3.5 Good +

3.0 Good

2.5 Good-

2.0 Fair+

1.5 Fair

1.0 Fair-

0.5 Poor

Makes much more sense to me, but then again, I'm a collector and don't profit at all from selling any comic-related product.

Well, most threads bashing Matt Nelson have mysteriously disappeared.

Only because they were stupid.

Yes, multiple instances of solid 'shilling' evidence by a major hobby player is stupid.

Yes, stupid.

 

Your moral compass is wound too loosely.

 

compass' get wound?

 

u don't know bedrock very well, do you?

 

You don't know that post was a parody of Matt Nelson's classic "your moral compass is wound too tight" do you?

Well, most threads bashing Matt Nelson have mysteriously disappeared.

Only because they were stupid.

Yes, multiple instances of solid 'shilling' evidence by a major hobby player is stupid.

Yes, stupid.

Your moral compass is wound too loosely.

Is he an investor in a comic book grading company? Apparently.

Confirmed on these Boards by Halperin himself:

"My partner Steve Ivy and I own a minority position in CGC -- entirely non-voting stock."

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=34395&Number=625815

And when is lou_fine going to show up? This thread is tailor-made for him!

Almost all of these were owned by Doug.

 

I would venture to say that they were pressed quite a bit.

 

We all know Doug had them. And, as I said, the assumption is that they were pressed. But Masterchief's chart offers no definitive proof of which specific ones were pressed or unpressed. It only shows the before and after grades. And a large percentage of the grades did not change. So, again, what purpose does it really serve other than to show that Doug resubmitted those books?

 

If CGC hadn't nuked the relevant threads, you'd be able to put this info into a better/larger context.

We both read those threads. Why don't you put it into a better/larger context for the newbs? Heck, I'd love to see what better/larger context it could be put into.

Yes, let me summarize a thread that went for months and contained huge amounts of data and hours of hard work into a nice little one-post package for you.

As I mentioned, I could do what you ask if CGC hadn't nuked the threads.

Almost all of these were owned by Doug.

 

I would venture to say that they were pressed quite a bit.

 

We all know Doug had them. And, as I said, the assumption is that they were pressed. But Masterchief's chart offers no definitive proof of which specific ones were pressed or unpressed. It only shows the before and after grades. And a large percentage of the grades did not change. So, again, what purpose does it really serve other than to show that Doug resubmitted those books?

If CGC hadn't nuked the relevant threads, you'd be able to put this info into a better/larger context.

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

 

No wonder they couldn't afford another encapulation machine! They were saving up for a pressing/restoration business.

 

I guess next they will buy Heritage and cut everyone else out fo the loop completely.

 

Get your books pressed, restored, graded, and sold all at the same time.

Ahhhh, so that's why they hired Borock! Sly...

Classic reading on the about face of PCS last time.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1139470#Post1139470

 

Well, we did try and tell them it was a stinker.

Don't forget this thread!

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=941272&fpart=1

Main take away; none of my posts are ever about being 'right or wrong.' It is always about the sharing of knowledge

 

Are you saying this with a straight face? You're the guy who disparaged comics as not even being in the realm of true collectibles, and then you wouldn't even post the list that comics didn't make. Do you have any self-awareness?

 

I said that comics are not 'true collectibles' yet I spend thousands on each one and have been collecting since 2008?

 

Wow, since 2008? Tell me about the old days grandpa...

 

Really? I believe you are referring to a list I did post; albeit NOT in the same hour the forum requested it. If you would recall that thread and 'bump' it you will see that post is credited as being posted by me at a much earlier date.

 

Yes, I am aware that you had posted it earlier. It still doesn't change the fact that you refused to post the list in the subsequent thread(s), which would've taken 2 seconds. Your attitude betrayed your disdain for the posters who were asking (and some were asking nicely). I thought it was all about the sharing of knowledge? This is just one example of why your statement above is bulle.

 

Again, may I ask your point?

 

You're a hypocrite?

 

Perhaps you forget the person who started 'using foul langauage' and the fact that I was a dealer at a major antique convention that day. I do have a life outside the forums.

 

This isn't Burger King; you can't have it YOUR way. I want the top ten list now. Sorry, I am busy right now!

 

Backpedal. If you had time to post in those threads, you had time to post the list. It would have taken you literally 10 seconds to do so.

But I'm beating a dead horse here... which are more collectible than comics damnit!!!

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6158615#Post6158615

 

Note the post that is bumped...

Bump the other threads.

And the irony of you posting a link so quickly is not lost on me

Main take away; none of my posts are ever about being 'right or wrong.' It is always about the sharing of knowledge

 

Are you saying this with a straight face? You're the guy who disparaged comics as not even being in the realm of true collectibles, and then you wouldn't even post the list that comics didn't make. Do you have any self-awareness?

 

I said that comics are not 'true collectibles' yet I spend thousands on each one and have been collecting since 2008?

Wow, since 2008? Tell me about the old days grandpa...

Really? I believe you are referring to a list I did post; albeit NOT in the same hour the forum requested it. If you would recall that thread and 'bump' it you will see that post is credited as being posted by me at a much earlier date.

Yes, I am aware that you had posted it earlier. It still doesn't change the fact that you refused to post the list in the subsequent thread(s), which would've taken 2 seconds. Your attitude betrayed your disdain for the posters who were asking (and some were asking nicely). I thought it was all about the sharing of knowledge? This is just one example of why your statement above is bulle.

Again, may I ask your point?

You're a hypocrite?

Main take away; none of my posts are ever about being 'right or wrong.' It is always about the sharing of knowledge

Are you saying this with a straight face? You're the guy who disparaged comics as not even being in the realm of true collectibles, and then you wouldn't even post the list that comics didn't make. Do you have any self-awareness?

What will happen when CGC owns the company?

 

 

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies.

 

 

It is CCG that is buying Matt's company.

 

Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company.

 

 

So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS?

 

How's the health of that market fared?

 

In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace.

 

'mint'

 

What about currency pressing? Has that too become acceptable?

 

Once again you are comparing 'apples to oranges.' Currency (i.e. paper money) is made out linen just as much as it paper (actually more). Currency is printed with raised inks which help create embossing. Therefore, 'pressing' can be proven and actually causes the removal of the embossing on the note. A comic book being 'pressed' cannot be determined 100% of the time. If I stack a collection of high grade raw comic books tightly in a box for a period of time, you would not be able to (if done right) tell the 'pressed' book from the book from the box.

 

Therefore, the pressing of currency actually causes physical damage to the piece in question. Pressing a comic book (when done right) does not. Personally, I will not buy currency without the 'EPQ' or 'PPQ' designation.

 

This argument has been brought up numerous times on this very forum and cross-collectors like myself have each time attempted to explain this.

 

Also, as to the PM's and emails I have been receiving, I really do not want to enter a discussion comparing art to comic books; or even antiques. As I have said many times before, what goes on in the comic book collecting field does not even hold a 'candle' to what goes on in other collecting fields. This is such a minor issue in my opinion, it does not bother me at all. I have listed examples in this thread and others. Not that anyone cares, but 'pressing' (as I have said multiple times throughout this same thread) is considered minor conservation to me; not restoration. It also does not deserve to get this much attention in my opinion. I did post a thread several days ago in another sub-forum, about my FIRST experience with 'pressing.' I still continue to buy high grade books that I know have been pressed as well.

 

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

Wow, if anyone was on the fence about you being a condescending prick, they are no longer on the fence.

What will happen when CGC owns the company?

 

 

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies.

 

 

It is CCG that is buying Matt's company.

 

Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company. You can try and spin it as if it's not...but they didn't "acquire" classics because they would help the coin/card business.

 

Once again, NGC (owned by the Certified Collectibles Group who owns CGC) already owns NCS (a conservation company for coins). Coin collectors everywhere are probably wondering what all the 'fuss' is about as this company has been 'in house' (under the same company umbrella as NGC) for years.

 

Edited to add: If you look at how one submits to NCS and then NGC,. this may help answer the questions as to how this process will work between CGC and now Classics Incorporated.

 

 

Does NGS REMOVE restoration, so the item can be sold as completely unrestored?

 

It is more done as 'conservation' (however, not every collector agrees with the use and definition of that word). That being said, have you checked out their website?

 

www.ncscoin.com

So comic collectors want their slabbing company to more ethical than coin slabbing companies. Is that so wrong?

"This acquisition strengthens CCG’s commitment to promoting the comic collecting hobby and enhancing the collecting experience by offering a streamlined submission experience and a suite of services that is a win/win for both collectors and dealers. Customers who wish to send books to Classics Incorporated will be able to have them transfer directly to CGC for grading – creating a synergistic relationship similar to other CCG member companies. This efficient process saves customers time, shipping and insurance expenses".

 

Can someone please make me understand why anyone on the boards is number one shocked by this decision and number two perceiving this as a conflict of interest?

 

If anything this should make the Matt haters (you know who you are ) happy that he now cannot sell anymore on eBay starting in February.

 

What has changed in the hobby besides CGC along with Classic Incorporated doing what every other corporation tries to accomplish which is finding new ways to make more money.

 

Now minor details later to come would be is Matt and his employees going to be working in the CGC office (assuming he might be) or a business suite near by for easy transport of his orders to CGC for grading.

 

CGC has streamlined this OPTIONAL service. Why are you guys so upset?

 

It is a convenient way for a customer to take care of their books with that optional service in one shot while only having to ship their books to one place rather then risk more book damage during multiple shipments. Yes of course the obvious CGC makes more money!

 

Matt (Classic Inc.) has been doing this for years now. It wasn't a conflict of interest before just as many of you have used Matt's services in the past so why would it be a conflict of interest now? Since Matt will no longer be allowed to sell comics then I would dare to say this is very much quite the opposite effect then, no?

 

Matt and the graders have zero conflict in this process just as they did when he was in Texas.

 

All the anti-pressers for years have been yearning for the comic community to educate and make pressing less secretive. Ironic still the man so many of you and moan about has been the BIGGEST educator about pressing in the hobby in the modern age.

 

Here are the only relevant questions I feel one might want to know as as dealer/colelctors:

 

Will collectors/dealers get 10/20% off Matt's pressing services now? (assuming restro will not be discounted)

 

Will Matt's pressing prices remain the same or go up now that he is linked CGC?

 

All that has changed is you now have the option (again option) to either submit your book status-quo or pay extra to have them pressed/restored prior to grading.

 

Holy mother of god....this hobby is over.

 

Hearing the word shocking as it pertains to this business joint venture is definitely not a word that makes sense to me.

 

I am still going to send Matt the same books I did before February 1st, and I will still send Joeypost the same books I always send to him.

 

Status Quo for me as per usual (Yes Bob/Foolkiller gym and the beach).

 

Besides congratulations to Matt Nelson there really isn't anything else I have an opinion on concerning this announcement. Good for you Matt and Good Luck!

Comics are a commodity, thank god!

What will happen when CGC owns the company?

 

 

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies.

 

 

It is CCG that is buying Matt's company.

 

Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company.

 

 

So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS?

Wow, talk about a Sleeper Shill. On the Boards for 10 years, but your first post was May of this year?