VintageComics

Again, I'll preface this post so that people don't think I'm a hater by stating that I don't dislike cosplay. I love watching cosplay. Louise my wife used to cosplay. The cosplay comparisons are valid regardless of room size IMO. It may or may not be a problem, but when you are providing a service to a group of people, your job as an organizer is to lay the groundwork to make an event as fruitful as possible to your target audience. You want to run a show with strippers wearing paint? Hang up an 18 years or older sign. Don't take the chance that someone with 8 year old kids is not going to show up even if the show starts at 10 PM. IMO there is nothing wrong with an show organizer making sure he hits his target audience for both vendors and customers. And from what I'm hearing about Elite Con there wasn't a single complaint at the show about the show. That sounds like a successful show to me. And I'd pay multiples of that ticket price to attend a show like that. The cost becomes secondary.

There was a cosplay guy in SD lying down in SD aisles and clogging them. He was feigning to be dead or dying or something. I politely walked up to him and told him all the mayhem he was causing with traffic. Aisles were literally backed up for blocks because of him. He stopped doing it. Sometimes they are oblivious to what they are doing.

My 1st wife always hid stuff when she'd go shopping which was strange to me because I couldn't give a hoot. I was with Louise for about 3 years when I bought my first big book. I flashed a Marvel Mystery #9 at her at the NYC Comic Con after working out a deal with GAtor. She knew I'd bought it with the way I was holding it. She asked "How much?" $25K, I replied. She said as long as you pay the bills and it makes you happy we're all good. The way she looked at it was that it could be worse. I could be spending money on illicit vices that have no real world value.

You know, that is one way of doing it. I wouldn't say that banning cosplay is any more ridiculous than having 100's of cosplayers pose in front of a person's vendor booth where they are trying to recoup their costs. I would say there are different ways of achieving the same goal. This is not about disliking cosplay. It's about reaching your target audience.

The Javits seems to be under construction perpetually. Isn't it amazing that a movement that was once considered fringe and strange has become so big that even the largest convention centers in the country can't contain them? What other cities contain larger convention centers? I know that the Orange County Convention Center is pretty massive. I don't know that I've seen a larger one. It covers both sides of the International drive with bridges leading to various hotels around it. EDIT: Nevermind, acc to Wiki it's the OCCC in Orlando right behind McCormick in Chicago. The Orange County Convention Center (OCCC) is the primary public convention center for the Central Florida region. The center currently ranks as the second largest convention center in the United States (the biggest is McCormick Place in Chicago). The OCCC offers 7,000,000 sq ft (650,000 m2) of total space, 2,100,000 sq ft (200,000 m2) of which is exhibit space. The large complex is located on the south end of International Drive, a major tourist area in Orlando, Florida. Solar panels on the roof of the South Concourse provide 1 MW of power. On April 18, 2012, the American Institute of Architects's Florida Chapter placed the building on its list of Florida Architecture: 100 Years. 100 Places By comparison SD is tiny. Literally 1/10 the size. The SD convention center offers 615,700 sq ft (57,200 m2) of exhibit space. As of 2009 it was the 24th largest convention facility in North America The Anaheim convention center has 813,607 square feet of exhibit space, which is why there are people pushing to move the SD show to Anaheim (about 1.5 hours driving away). The Javits convention center has 840,000 square feet (78,000 m2) of total exhibit space . Wowsers.

Annoyance is a small part of it. Yes, it can be annoying when you have 100's of people posing in front of your booth all weekend where you paid great expense to sell your wares to pay for the trip. From listening to old school dealers who used to set up at shows like SD for decades before it was a popular media event, it's more of a business reason. It used to be that anyone who wanted to head to the Superbowl of comic book shows could just book a flight, book a hotel, buy tickets and attend. Easy peasy, lots of customers in the door. Now that the show has become a world famous event, most hotels are locked by SDCC until all their guests and exhibitors get rooms, and then there is a frenzy to book remaining rooms at insane rates (as much as $600-800 a night at the Marriott next door IIRC). And tickets sell out in minutes world wide. And so what happens is that the majority of people who are there for the vintage material that the con was originally built around can no longer get in because the majority of people don't collect. They're there as spectators or to buy non-Vintage stuff. That might sound judgemental but it's true. There's a saying that some people have used in SD. If you want to avoid the crowd just head into the Silver and Gold pavilion because those aisles aren't as crowded most days. And so dealers have actually given up and given up their booths in SD because once the expense and time of setting up across the country (I'd average it at about $6000 per 10 x 10 booth including airfare and hotels for two people) they can't even get their customers in the door to buy their product. It's all the talk on the SD floor every year. New York has become similar. I've heard of some customers who are now defaulting to NYC instead of SD because it was easier to get in but NYCC has outgrown the Javits too. So it's this 'pressure' that has caused promoters to put together either comic only or vintage only shows in an effort to make it a vintage experience for those who ONLY want just that. And there are many, I'd venture to say 1000's, of people who are looking for just such a thing.

You obviously have not spent the same amount of money on her. Men, when will they learn?

Yup. Wasn't thought through very well as it will negatively benefit some people.

As I said earlier in the thread and also in the FB discussion. they most certainly buy things. But just going from my own con experiences over a decade, I have little doubt they buy the type of things that were at the Elite Con show. And that's not a diss. That's just an assessment from a marketing and business perceptive. They are not the target market. I do find it most interesting that there is a trend of old school comic book shows starting up. As I said, the pendulum is starting to swing in the opposite direction.

Problem is there are very little vintage comics for sale there. That is most likely due to the lack of promotion and business leadership. When I was on the West coast during that show I asked for an exhibitor list for the show. They didn't have one ready until 5 days before the show. It's probably run by an old school fan.

It's interesting to note that Joe Public still has the perception that SD is a true comic show. Most people don't have the time or resources to experience SD so I'm guessing that the SD rep is riding on the coat tails of it's old reputation. That will eventually change, which is really the point of the article.

Did anybody read this article?

Ironically enough, that's also the opening line to GNR's Civil War.

Not a single person. Then why did you say "stop the hate"?

The drama was created by the 'everyone gets a trophy attitude' that some people had. They responded with nasty names, insults, sarcasm and threats. It was ludicrous. Not everyone gets a trophy. Not everyone is always welcome everywhere. There's nothing wrong with that.

Because small shows get over crowded quickly and it was a small show (26 tables I think he said)? Volume was not the goal.

Your sarcasm is starting to bore me. I'm embarrassed to be called a fellow Canadian.

If I'm running a show I would cater to the crowd I want there and I would make sure that no details were left to chance. That's just good planning.

I wasn't invited to a wedding. I felt insulted. I didn't start a crusade and think about picketing the event. I'd put money on the fact that the cosplayers who are interested in the material that a vintage con caters to don't have a problem leaving their costumes at home to shop at the show.

The better have a life size statue of John Verzyl there or it's just not authentic.

You're really tilting at a windmill here and exaggerating your point about what is really a recent cultural phenomenon. As George said, there were several professional cosplayersin the discussion who totally got the point and didn't protest it. The majority of protest came from people who likely would not have enjoyed the event anyway unless they were having their pictures taken.

Who is hating on the Big Apple Con in this thread?

Nobody was restricting the type of people. That is not an analogous example. Based on how you have described it, the uproar was about restricting how people could dress, not about restricting merchandise for sale. The analogous situation would be a convention where you were not allowed in if you were not in cosplay. That is just as destructive as the proposed alternative. So if someone started a convention and said only cosplay is allowed that wouldn't be OK? I think your use of the words 'antagonizing' and 'destructive' are excessive. Not everyone always needs to be included in everything. If I have a target market that doesn't include kids and I choose to market strictly to adults does that make me a puppy kicker? Nope. It's this sense of entitlement and windmill tilting outrage that was fueling all the cosplayers as well. And I love cosplay. As I said, my wife used to dress up. But there are times when I'd prefer it weren't there. And that is not discriminatory. It's just practicality.

Terry's show is too crowded now too from what I hear. And he won't go to a 2 day show. There are other comic heavy shows. Baltimore and Charlotte are much larger versions of Terry's show. Others can probably list comparable shows as well.

You're assuming getting people through the door is the goal. I said this on the FB page, but turngin a profit would be the last thing on my mind. I'd be more in interested in filling the room with vintage sellers and collectors.