VintageComics

While I understand the same feeling (it happens to everyone) not all books change in grade and not all books that change grade go up. CGC graders are human, and there is money to be made in finding books that look better than the assigned grade. It's no different than finding an undervalued company on the stock market and buying into it before everyone else does. I realize that it doesn't make it sting less but that is the reality of it.

They are still sold at newsstands but nowhere near at the volume that they used to be. Ever since the early 1980's and distribution changes that moved comics from the newsstand to comic shops, comics have been diminishing from newsstands.

I'll get right on that. My hero.

I saw your jib. I'm good at seeing through clothes. And smiles.

And yours.

Just think how bad it would be if you weren't paying for graders' notes and paying higher sub fees. I think the next step is to cut off all communication from the outside world, except written letters. Then, a new rate hike combined with redefining the tiers.* That should get them caught up. Or at least slow down the accumulation of a backlog. *I can't take credit for this idea. It was given to me. I like the cut of your jib.

I would say you have no proof of ever giving the books and they get to keep them.

This is what I originally thought. However, with the handful of cgc book I have seen and those that I now own. I have noticed slight defects (usually more then one) in just about all 9.8 books. If you consider that I am new to the hobby and as such you would think that I would be less likely to notice these things. So either I discovered a hidden talent or I don't understand how high grading works (my guess is for the later) The size of the defects is relative to what is considered "normal" for a new comic. You have to remember that comics were not printed to be "perfect 10's". They were printed as throwaway children's books. Some defects you can not get away from. For example, when a staple pierces a book there is a little fluff/tearing/creasing involved as the staple pushes through the paper. How much of that fluff/tearing/creasing involved is going to be relative to all the other books out there. We generally know what a properly stapled book should look like based on that. Deviance from what is considered "normal" is going to eventually detract from the grade. For example, you could take a CGC 10.0 and find huge defects if you look at it through a microscope. So stuff like chips, bindery rips, creases, etc are all going to be relative in size. If I had to explain it in detail, what you're really looking for on a 9.8 candidate is no glaring defects on the book when you look at it through roughly 20/20 vision at a reasonable half-arm's length under ample lighting. If you look hard and close enough you will always find a defect a book. The key is to tune into what CGC is looking for. Those that don't know what CGC is looking for may as well try to eliminate all defects. Does that make sense?

I'd say that if you don't feel comfortable grading a raw book a 9.8, if you can see a defect it's not a 9.8.

This is something I've posted before on the subject. Part of it is from me reverse engineering CGC's grading standards through 1000's of submissions, some of it from conversations with CGC employees and some of it from reading the Overstreet grading guide (2nd edition). In the grading guide there is a chart and a graph that shows how many defects and what size of defects are allowed in grade. If you look at the graph, it shows that you are allowed 1 "larger" or 2 "smaller" defects in NM/M grade of 1/16" - 1/8" in size. I took that to mean that you can have two 1/16" or one 1/8" defect on an otherwise perfect book and the book will grade a 9.8. That would include a miswrap of up to roughly 1/8" A miswrap larger than 1/8" to 1/4" would drop it to the 9.6 range. If you look at 9.9, you'll note that only one defect of 1/16" in size is allowed on an otherwise perfect book...so a perfect book with a 1/16" miswrap would drop the book into a 9.9 grade. A perfect book with no miswrap would not drop the grade.

In North America we use a comma...

Didn't Schomburg do the cover to #3? Pretty sure he did.

Jackassery comment: Let me check my crystal ball! Discussion comment: Hard to say, there are many more slabbed Marvels than there are DC books (issue for issue in the Silver Age) but you have that much more demand as well. Making a credible DC movie without a) layering the groundwork the way Marvel did with multiple single hero movies b) having an over all battle plan spanning half a decade ...is going to be very difficult for DC to do.

Me losing a bet with Mike.

From what I've been able to gather over the years, CGC is a fraction of the size of the other grading companies under the same roof. 1/10th of say the coin grading company to be exact (or an exact educated guess, if I had to make one). If you've ever been under that roof, they have quite the compound including their own internal security team, a fenced moat, a building that looks like it was built to Fort Knox specs, etc. Stuff like that doesn't come cheap, especially since it was likely purchased and built at the height of the Real Estate market. I'm guessing CGC is not making nearly as much money as people think, considering they need to pull their weight in paying for that snazzy fortress at 1/10th (or whatever it is) the size of the other grading companies.

True. But, it's high quality for the price point - it's all relative, baby. Good grief. I'll be the first to say it's relative but relative crepe in this case. You get what you pay for in this life, that much is more truthful than someone saying you can get low price, high quality and top service on a regular basis all at the same time. McDonald's is delicious to my taste buds but it's not what I would label as quality food no matter how hard they try to market it as such.

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ. And they obviously don't have takt times. Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue. They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately. So do, say, CFP Comics and Classics Inc, one of those were endorsed in the post that endorsed the retailers. The original comparison wasn't with what they do within their business but how they go about it. Sorry, I thought the comparison was a discussion about the complexity of relative businesses. Customer service was the way I read it. Sure, that was Watson's post but his post was a straw man arguement because he didn't actually offer a reply to Miraclemet: So you want the same (or better) quality, at the same price with a faster turn around time? Or are you willing to pay more for faster and better? Just wondering what your acceptable metric is... My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric. Miraclemet specifically asked which metric using time, money or quality of service Watson would be using. Watson replied with his "prove it" response. Miraclemet replied with this: It was at this point that I thought the word MANUFACTURER obscured the point and went off on a tangent. I thought the point he was trying to make was the CGC offers a complex service that includes products and service in a level more complex than just say selling a comic or pressing a comic. I agreed with him. Am I wrong?

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ. And they obviously don't have takt times. Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue. They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately. So do, say, CFP Comics and Classics Inc, one of those were endorsed in the post that endorsed the retailers. The original comparison wasn't with what they do within their business but how they go about it. Sorry, I thought the comparison was a discussion about the complexity of relative businesses.

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ. And they obviously don't have takt times. Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue. They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately. I think that was his point.

Shill.

So you want the same (or better) quality, at the same price with a faster turn around time? Or are you willing to pay more for faster and better? Just wondering what your acceptable metric is... My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric. There's a difference between being a good retailer (which your examples may be and do what they do very well) and being a good MANUFACTURER. CGC is a manufacturer of product (the product being a combination of grading, restoration check and slabbing). It is a far more complex process to manufacture than to retail (not saying its easy, just different and not necessarily as complex). I agree that customers should be treated with respect and courtesy, and I haven't had any experiences with CGC to the contrary. And I dont recall seeing CGC on the boards telling people to "prove it" (not sure what "it" is, do you have some specific beef?) CGC don't manufacture anything. They offer an opinion and guard against it being tampered with. They have raw materials, takt times, slabbing equipment, quality control processes (Im assuming)... sounds like they manufacture something to me. Will you grant that they are a different business type than the referenced comic book dealers? Manufacturing is the production of goods. CGC does not produce anything. They are a service industry, providing a service to other businesses and consumers. Company that produces the plastic slabs for CGC grading = Manufacturing CGC = service industry Comic Book Dealer = retail industry I think you know what he means, though. They are not middle men selling just a product. They are are combining a product (holder/label) with a service (inspection and appraisel) and marketing that. He is absolutely correct in the fact that it is much more complex than just selling a product or providing a service.

So you want the same (or better) quality, at the same price with a faster turn around time? Or are you willing to pay more for faster and better? Just wondering what your acceptable metric is... My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric. That's a weak response. For one CGC has never come on and said "Well, yeah, prove it." Second, Bedrock says that to me all the time. Finally, none of them have awesome message boards where grown men can come on and act like children.

Really? There are NO companies in business offering all 3? Not sure I agree with you there. Rather than use the adjective "successful" for a 3rd time I left it out of the sentence you highlighted, but yes what I say is quite true in the key to a successful business. McDonalds offers speed and price while a better quality breakfast or burger can be found anywhere. DunkinDonuts give you quality and service however you can find cheaper coffee several places. Pretty much works for any successful biz, however there might be an exception. I agree. It's near impossible to beat all competitors on all 3, and if by some chance you are beating all competitors on all 3 fronts you can't maintain it for long because something somewhere is suffering for it.