VintageComics

I'm totally dunking on you the next we play ball.

Wow, surprised that they would have crack it out to verify the White pages, but always good to enjoy a book the way it was ment to be enjoyed. He didn't crack it out to verify them. He cracked it out to enjoy them. It was @peewee22

This is one I've never heard about.

Don’t tempt him, he will do it! Dork. Now I'm trying to figure out where I can get a tube TV from. Stop spreading conspiracy theories.

Yes, this is always the way of the successful. Confuse everyone, when they ask for clarification keep them confused and leave them alone. Good call! The staple area looks like it might be ok. But that book definitely suffered damage to the bottom right edge on the back cover. And this impact would likely NOT have happened if the books were shipped vertically. You reduce the chances of this type of damage by a significant percentage by simply packaging the books so that they spend most of their time horizontally.

Of course. Why not? They're free to buy from you and visa versa. I actually sold a book to JIm Halperin (owner of Heritage) through eBay some 20 years ago too. Thought it was cool. Whether they put it into their personal collection or into an auction is all up to them after they buy it. It is a cool little thing to happen though. I thought it was neat when it happened to me. Years later I ended up talking to Jim about it and we've done deals since because of it.

What are the page qualities? How do the books look up close? Any chipping on the cheaper one? Larger or obvious defects. $10K price swing is possible for a difference in eye appeal. I remember when a boardie here bought an FF #1 with White pages and he paid something like double or triple market value for the book. He posted it here and said he was thrilled to buy it because it was so WHITE. Sometimes all it takes is being in the right or wrong place at that time.

100% agree. But there is a difference between when a slab lands vertically in a cardboard box with no cushion under the slab to absorb the impact and the Comiclink style packaging where the books are in a bubblewrap envelope and then that bubblewrap envelope is in a sea of peanuts. The impact in the cardboard box still transfers the impact more directly through to the slab when it lands vertically, which is more often than not in those big boxes because they're tall and the labels are always on top. What I envision helping would be some slight, thin foam or bubblewrap layer - just a sheet under all the slabs so that WHEN (not if) they are impacted that protective layer absorbs the biggest shocks. That way the lesser, reduced shocks that transfer to the slabs don't affect the books nearly as much with each impact. With the Comiclink style packaging the bubble wrap envelopes extend past the slabs (the slabs are enclosed in the envelopes) and so that extended bubble wrap at either end of the slabs absorbs any shock those slabs experience with almost NONE of the shock reaching the slabs (remember, the slabs are also tight in the bubble wrap envelopes so that pressure on the faces of the slab also allows some absorption by slowing down the back and forth of the movement of the slab on impacts) and finally, you ONLY have to worry about those vertical type impacts some of the time. Most of the time the box travels with the label on top, keeping the slabs horizontal the majority of the time, which is the best way for them to travel. Folks, I've been talking about this for 20 years. It seems common sense to me because I was a former technician but I guess not everyone sees it that easily.

Totally get you. I think we're talking slightly next to each other. What I mean is that I've already accepted that we need the have the perfect amount of tight vs loose pressure on the book and this is as good as it's going to get. I don't foresee a new solution anytime soon after 20 years of trying, so the percentage of books that are doing to get damaged are going to depend now on the packaging, And I know I'm just spitballing but from what I innately understand about physics and how things work, I am fairly certain that a different packaging method not only WILL reduce slab damage from whatever the current average is we've seen actual testimony of it in regards to Comiclink's packaging. And for the Star Wars shipping problem I understand the similarities and the differences. There are shipping solutions for that issue but the solution is entirely different in that example because in that example, you're not trying to stop the object inside from moving. You're trying to stop the bubble from moving relative to the card (or cardboard) and so you'd have to secure them externally to keep the two rigid to each other so that if the toy inside gets shaken, the bubble doesn't try to tear away from the card. ---------------------------------- Off on a tangent, but relative and also absolutely a killer story... I know this security guard who is up their with the best of the best. He's worked on Presidential Guards (US), celebrities, heads of state from foreign countries...you name it. So he had some incredible stories to share. Like when he's hired to transport the wife of some foreign billionaire dignitary in a bulletproof vehicle, he's your man. So he told me this story about how he was hired to transport A WINE BOTTLE FROM THE TITANIC!!! His job was to pick up the bottle on the East coast and bring it back to the West coast. I don't remember what it was worth? Maybe Dr. Google can help. Anyway, the lengths they went to to make sure this bottle was safe was absolutely MIND boggling. They designed a case to hold the bottle, but the case was designed so that if the case fell out of the air from a helicopter or a plane that the bottle inside would not get damaged!!! I asked to make sure and he confirmed. And it had to be tested before they made the actual journey. So yeah, you CAN build something that is better but how much is it going to cost you to do that and is anyone going to pay for it? Way cheaper to just catch a flight and pick up the book at that point.

Well, it's complicated because you can't be too tight OR too lose. But the reality is that ANY comic will get damaged if you drop it hard enough. The Modern holders that used pinched edges to keep your book moving was basically a Mylar with tapered edges and no hard edges. Covers still tore off. I still believe the problem is in the packaging. Not with the slab. That's what my techie mind thinks. I am sure CGC has done a TON of testing on slabs. That's actually a very good point. They originally came out with an OUTER well and NO INNER well. The outer wells were causing books to wrinkle from the pressure (the term people came up with was "creep engine") as the pressure from the sides of the wells caused the book to experience inward pressure toward the center of the book. They went BACK to the old holder. So you're saying it's the exact same old holder? Good to know.

CGC has explained it before. I think they believe the tearing happens because the cover "sticks" to the inner and outer wells from static electricity. I remember reading that. As to designing a better well, I actually don't think that's possible after 20 years. They'd have done it by now if it was. Billion dollar companies wouldn't skimp pennies if there was a better solution. Remember, Borock posted here YEARS ago that if someone had a better design, CGC would pay them for it. There is no real 100% solution but your best chances of avoiding slab damage is in the shipping, NOT in the slab design anymore. That's where everyone's focus needs to be.

interesting. I don’t mind some repetitive story threads if the story itself is entertaining to be honest. One of my biggest complaints is when stories don’t end. I can’t deal well with incomplete stories or plot holes. An example I recently got stuck with was Afterlife with Archie. I am still finding books from time to time that I missed so I feel like I’m always playing catch-up (not necessarily a bad thing). So I heard about Afterlife, picked up the first trade AND LOVED IT. Tried to pick up the second trade, and although there were ads for it, I later realized it got cancelled aaand the writer dropped the book in favour for the tv show. Now there’s just an incomplete story. Hmmmm… Uber violent I’m okay with. I know some people can find extreme violence to be a distraction. I recently recommended Hard Boiled to a comic enthusiast, not realizing they did not do well with the violence whoops Something I've learned as I've gotten older is how differently everyone sees the same thing. One person can not be bothered at all by something and for someone else it can be a major roadblock. I think it comes down to what time of personality you are psychologically. Some people are a little more fluid and easy going and aren't bothered by small details while others ONLY notice the small details. Those people are far more detail oriented than the easy going ones, who are often largely more "big picture" people. But ultimately, there's no wrong or right way to enjoy something. Both sides need to understand that it TAKES BOTH to make the world go round in everything, whether that's society, relationships or any other aspect of life.

I forgot to address one more thing with Marwood. He was saying it was a double sized book AND that it was "too loose". You're saying it's too loose. Those two comments dovetail nicely into this: You're complaining about it being "too loose" but that's not how the slab works. The inner holder being "too loose" would NOT make the staples tear like that. You'd get SCS instead because the entire book would move with inside the inner well (cover AND interior). If you make the slab too tight, it pinches the cover and the staples tear. They have different inner holders to fit the various thicknesses of books. Whether they chose the right one for this book can only be found out if CGC inspects the holder.

And I call EVERYONE dude including women so don't think you're special.

So, you're criticizing the CGC slab for making damage a near certainty from impact because it "doesn't have enough room" but you're not criticizing the CGC slab for making damage a near certainty from impact. Well, now I'm even more confused. If someone else agrees with you, I'll donate $100 to your favorite charity but at this point I'm going to agree to disagree and stop replying there's nothing left to discuss. Yeah, nice try. I'm totally calm. I'm not shouting. I post capital letters for EMPHASIS. And there was no patronising unless you're good at reading minds. Lately everyone seems to be able to do that.

Dude, I'm not sure where the disconnect is but your ENTIRE POST CRITICIZES THE CGC slab. Here it is again. I read (present tense) this first sentence like this: "It's odd really, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage that knocks and bangs can cause to a book that sits in a plastic sleeve that has room for movement and which can pinch the outer cover. When you put a book in a boarded mylar, the convex result keeps the book from moving, including the guts." So, my understanding is you're saying "It's really odd, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage - and then you go on a long winded post criticizing CGC slabs and expounding the virtues of a Mylar." Then you say this: It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage. You end the post by saying this: Am I being unreasonable? Look at the room for movement around that comic. That conclusion leads me to conclude that YOU ARE CRITICIZING CGC SLABS FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO TAKE AN IMPACT. How can I read that paragraph any other way? You were wrong and I simply pointed out that you were incorrect. You don't like that I pointed out that you were wrong and now you're trying to shift it onto me as though I did something untoward - and refuse to admit you were wrong...but I'm the problem. THIS in a nutshell is the root problem with society. NOBODY can admit when they're wrong and they just throw stones at the people who point it out. But the BEST way to figure out between you and I if one of us is mistaken is to ask the group. Does anyone disagree with me? As for the rest of it, you need to grow a pair. I'm here to have fun and there was NO malice intended.

I've received 100s. Ditto.

That's what I'm saying. When you stack books vertically AND have no cushion, that's a double whammy. Stacking books vertically ALONE will risk the books to damage, either on the bottom of the book from SCS / slab impact or by putting pressure on staples from impact. Adding a cushion reduces the possibility of damage but doesn't negate it. Shipping books horizontally the way @COMICLINK does is the BEST way to ensure they arrive without slab damage. It's not even a debate. It's just physics and logic. Does anyone disagree with me?

I'm asking you which part of your post I mischaracterized. It's a genuine question asked in good faith and I quoted your post to make sure I didn't misunderstand. If I misunderstood I can only better understand what you meant by you clarifying so it's on you to clarify what you meant. So what did I say that's incorrect?

The oddness that I was talking about is in the rest of my post that you didn't quote. You've misrepresented me by taking a single line out of context. If I did that to you, you'd point it out. I don't need to think your point through as it's just a reiteration of what was in the rest of my post which you didn't quote. I reread your post twice now and requoted it below. You stated that it's odd that the CGC holder doesn't protect from impact and Mylar does (rough paraphrase). You even said "it's a wonder that any slabbed comic survives the journey from CGC back" and "ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. The book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage" so you're clearly criticizing the CGC holder for being inadequate for absorbing impact. I directly rebutted by saying it's not CGC's job to design an holder that protects a book from severe impact. It's the job of the SHIPPER. I don't see how I mischaracterized it. I don't think the word "mischaracterized" means what you think it does.

I agree. And time. And CGC doesn't have time. They've been behind for almost 2 decades now. And if people want a better product or CGC taking more time to encapsulate their books, Blackstone is going to want to raise prices to cover the added cost. It's odd really, isn't it. How is it odd? Think this through: A CGC holder CANNOT prevent a book injury upon large impact anymore than a car can prevent a personal injury upon large impact. You can't design a holder to OPPOSE THE LAWS OF NATURE. The cushion to the "large impact" is the responsibility of the person shipping the book. Not the CGC holder. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wanna be engineer here, voracious learner and a techie and technician. I will say that CGC shipping books in large boxes stacked vertically WITH NO CUSHION OR IMPACT ABSORPTION UNDER THE BOOKS is definitely a problem. Books shouldn't be shipped stacked VERTICALLY IMO because this sends a DIRECT impact through the vertical axis of the book and applying stress to the staples in the strongest way. Additionally, with zero shock absorption material like bubble wrap and packing peanuts, when the box gets dropped the impact gets transferred DIRECTLY TO THE BOOK THROUGH THE BARDBOARD (because this is how physics works). If you have some sort of impact absorbing material between the box and the books then that material absorbs the impact before it reaches the book. Not too tight though. Just a hair less than snug, so that the impact absorbing material can absorb impact rather than transfer the force. If you make the package too tight, the bubble wrap and packing peanuts will act as a solid rather than a liquid and against begin to transfer the impact directly to the book. If anyone has received a package from @COMICLINK you know they do it right. Big boxes come with lots of packing peanuts around the books PLUS each individual book (or several books) are wrapped in a bubble wrap envelope and then stacked HORIZONTALLY rather than vertically so that the impact DOESN'T shift the books in the holders.

Everything always ends eventually. Then the pendulum swings the other way and it happens all over again. Repeat for eternity. Thus it always was, thus it always will be. How you manage that pendulum swing is what matters but most seem to be focused on their own agendas and completely ignoring the big picture. Things CAN change. Things DO change. But it only happens when EVERYONE starts speaking up. Until then NOTHING changes.

My mom says I'm funny. Funny looking that is. Credit must go to @davidpg the @Microchip shill who gave me this line.

It's a sign of the times. Honest business's looking around at everything else going on in this country and seeing the break with integrity, law and order, and a transforming into a get as much as you can, while you can, every man for themselves society. Very sad. My family grew up behind the iron curtain. In 1958 when communism took over Jugoslavia, my family made plans to escape and by 1960 they packed up and left. The communists took EVERYTHING they owned and so they left with literally nothing to start a new life. My grandmother went through the mountains with children in her arms to escape. My dad (the oldest sibling) moved to Austria in 1958 to save money for the journey and he met my grandmother and his siblings with his dad (my grandfather) who travelled over to Austria by train to make final arrangements. Can you imagine someone in the West doing this today? They left to leave the corruption behind and start a better life where they had freedom to associate, freedom to speak and freedom to do business with whomever they pleased. Now my family sees the same corruption over here that they fled Europe to escape. But that's not the point to my story. That's just the set up...the REAL point of my story is this: 60 years ago people knew how to survive. They were principled. They knew what was right and what was wrong and they stood up for it by risking their lives. These days, our society is so pampered and sheltered that they can't even cross the road without a cell phone and Google maps. They can't go without food for a day. They can't even problem solve their own lives, let alone problem solve obstacles in their paths. Most importantly, they don't know how to live without the luxuries, comforts and securities that they've grown up with. So for people who COME from anarchy and lawlessness, they've seen this before and are used to it. It's no big deal, relatively speaking. But for those who have never seen or experienced it, it's not going to take much for people to unravel at the seams. Just a small slice of hardship and watch what happens (hint, it's already happened).

OK, will likely get started on this in the next week or so. Is there ANYONE interested in being a 2nd set of eyes or being involved? As I said, I'll make sure to post the details of the donation afterward but if someone is interested drop me a PM. Thanks.