Kevn

On 6/10/2024 at 9:54 AM, Ecclectica said:

I plan to go to this exhibition this summer (around August I think).

If you are interested and if no other option is available to you at the time, I can buy it there for you and send it to you, no problem.

That's awesome, thank you! I'm in Amsterdam, so shipping shouldn't be too bad. I do need to plan a family European trip for later this year, so there's a possibility I'll get there, but I need to cover a lot of bases with the trip and make other family members happy, and I'm not sure that part of France will be too interesting. If you remember, please nudge me when you're about to go so I can confirm.

On 6/9/2024 at 3:32 PM, NicoV said:

Two more exhibits starting soon in France, in Angouleme this time. One focused on Marvel art: https://www.citebd.org/agenda/marvel-super-heros-et-cie and another one with a part of their permanent collection: https://www.citebd.org/agenda/tresors-des-collections (sorry but it's in French - if they have an English version of their website it's really well hidden).

The Olivier Coipel poster for the Marvel Super Heros et Cie exhibit is awesome! I can't find a link to the gift shop - I'd love to see if it's available to buy without coming to the museum. Or maybe I just need to take a trip to France.

The info from the old thread is very interesting. I've looked at the ebay sellers pitch for these sericels, and I think it's rather misleading. Here's an edited version of the sales pitch on each of these. I've bolded some key words and phrases that I think are either telling, or and italicized and bolded parts that are downright misleading:

Is this really an animation cel? Do you have good photos of both the front and the back the cel, without the mat. I know for Marvel Super Heroes they used actual comic production art and cel xerography to get the actual comic book images on screen (though this meant the show wasn't really animated in the usual sense), but the actual cels from the show would have thick cel vinyl paint on the back of the cel and there would not be any color gradients. That is, the Hulk should be a flat green, his pants a flat purple, etc. There should be peg holes on the bottom of the cel, and between the peg holes there should be some hand written notes indicating the sequence, scene, frame number, and whatever else would be needed so that it would be shot in the correct order. 

This is a cool image, but I suspect it's more of a digital print that was printed on a piece of acetate, and not an actual production cel. 

Looking at the older art and the latest eBay listings, it appears clear that these are prints with pencils on top, with also some fairly crude ink hatching. You can see the graphite pencil lines on top of the inks in the older pieces, and in the newer ones they're now using what looks like conte pencils (blue, red, and white) for highlights/shadows, which gives them a legit reason to be on top of what I'm reasonably certain are printed inks. The giveaway on the newer drawings is they also used the blue pencil for the faux construction lines, and those lines are also clearly on top of the inks (and have as before no real relationship to the drawing). I will say their product has gotten better in the latest versions, and they've managed to improve the eyes especially. You could do a lot worse for $35, so I have to give them credit for producing a fairly slick product that probably pleases the majority of their customers.

From this is easy to see that AI-assisted art could readily be used to create passable (and even slick/good-looking) comic books, especially in those genres where artists tend to repeat poses and body types and where the emphasis is more on fan service than interesting/surprising story telling.

Looking closely you can see the pencil 'construction lines' bear little relationship to the inked image, and appear to have been placed to be obvious. Look at the marks around the nose -  they're just random scribbles that have no relationship to the inked nose. All the pencil-work appears to have been done by someone with very little artistic skill, as rapidly as possible. The hatching under the headband is almost random, and has nothing to do with the contours of the face, which an actual artist would understand. And as others noted, the irises and pupils are funky.

On 5/19/2024 at 12:03 AM, JC25427N said:

Felix doesn't control (directly at least) what shows up on CAF Dealer Search for his website. For every dealer site integrated with CAF theres a system Bill has in place that tracks those sites and handles creating/updating those listings on CAF Classifieds/Dealer results as they change on the dealer site. The only reason you still see those pages in CAF dealer search is because they're marked as "On Hold" on Felix's site and CAF only filters out "Sold" status for search on dealer sites. These dealers integrated with CAF don't manually make and update those dealer listings on CAF, your issue is with Bill. Ask him to filter out "On Hold" too

Also just to preempt this, yes Felix could change those to Sold on his site and they would get removed from CAF too, but I think its more prudent to look at the larger problem. I can't tell you how many times I found something I like on Burkey's site through CAF just to see it end up being on hold, and seeing its been "On Hold" for years. Felix at least changes his "On Hold" listings to sold after a while, I'm assuming its because the buyers still might be making payments on those

I appreciate the clarification of how these prices still show up on dealer's CAF sites, even when the correct status ('on hold', with no price visible) is present on the dealer's actual website. As I mentioned before, I think this is more of a feature than a bug. Yes, for some people there will be a moment of disappointment when they see art on CAF they would buy at the listed price, and when they click through to make a purchase are directed to the dealer's webpage to find that there's a deal already pending. But I think that's a small price to pay to get a clear idea of what things sold for, especially when some art drops sell out literally within minutes of becoming available and prices disappear on the dealer site.

Perhaps this info is preserved in the CAF market data, which for me would be a good incentive to upgrade to a premium account. 

Michael, you have to look at Felix's actual website (the link he posted, at felixcomicart.com), not his CAF page, to see what's available from his artists. I for one am glad he keeps the pages and their sales prices available on CAF, since it makes it easy to get an idea of what kinds of prices to expect when there is an art drop pending. If you do try to buy from his CAF site, and click on any of those DS:FS pages that you showed above, you'll see that none of them are actually available. I can see how it would be confusing if you didn't pay attention to the felixcomicart.com website and just looked at CAF.

On 5/5/2024 at 5:12 AM, Shaun Hill said:

Do you happen to recall what they sold for in terms of price range?

Per the Felix Comic Art CAF gallery, they were $3-10k per page, with two DPSs at $10k and 15k, and a cover at $20k. https://www.comicartfans.com/comic-art-dealers/felix_comic_art.asp

On 4/14/2024 at 6:32 PM, IngelsFan said:

Roger was a great guy-an absolute legend. I talked his ear off when I first got into original art.

I thought the name sounded familiar, and just looked at my tattered hand-written spreadsheet of original art purchases and it turns out I bought my first piece of OA from Roger, a George Roussos page from one of the EC sci-fi books. I recall that this was an impulse purchase - what I wanted was a page of Kurtzman Frontline Combat, but those were out of reach, and this was one of the first EC art pages I'd seen being sold individually. The price of the piece was low enough that I went for it, and I remember being put off when it arrived because the blue pencils were some prominent. Haha, what a noob. The good thing about the transaction was it went off flawlessly, and gave me the confidence to buy more art. I quickly started picking up Marvel pages I really liked, and so this piece went to the back of the portfolio and I've never even scanned it. Actually, I'm not even sure I still have it.

Anyway, looking back this it was one more instance where I could have used an OA buying opportunity to actually make a connection in the collector community, but I was too shy. 

I think you make some great points, but one thing that bothers me about your Wiacek X-Men portrait is that it is 'signed' by both Wiacek and Smith, and the Smith signature is very much in his authentic signing style. Yes, there are dates with the signatures, but to me having the piece apparently signed by someone who didn't touch the page is potentially misleading. I've seen artists sign such pieces with something like "Wiacek '16" and, immediately below write "after Paul Smith '97" without imitating the original artist's signature. An artist's signature is the gold standard for provenance, and imitating it could confuse someone down the road, or be used by an unscrupulous seller. 

I've seen a lot of recommendations for https://www.vonhawklabs.com/about-alexandra-vonhawk.html by people whose opinions I respect. I've looked into her services and it appears she is much more focused on conservation rather than restoration. I believe if you send her high quality scans of both sides of the art she can give you a good idea if she can do anything about the fold wrinkles, whether it looks like it would benefit from cleaning, etc. It can't hurt to query her. 

On 4/11/2024 at 7:29 PM, Aahz said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback ... quick follow up: If I were to put portfolios in non-airtight plastic bags, is it a good idea to add desiccant bags?

Can't imagine it would hurt, and it might help if you somehow had more humidity than expected wherever they're stored.

I've had the idea that large vacuum seal storage bags, the kind you use for packing away bulky bedspreads and towels, might be useful for sealing up portfolios in a dry, airtight condition. I can't think of why this would be harmful to OA, and it seems like it could be a useful option. Plus you could wrap the portfolios in a couple of towels, so to a thief it would look like you had a few sealed bags of towels that would have no value.

On 4/8/2024 at 6:50 AM, BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES said:

Curious who did these prelims. I like them a lot, but they look like John Romita rough drawings. Is the "Marie Severin" written on them to indicate that she was to do the finished covers, or were her rough work much more dynamic and balanced than her finished work?

On 4/9/2024 at 7:34 PM, cstojano said:

No it does not. Amazing to see. I may even keep this Heritage catalog.

But, the logo is a stat per the description "A logo, masthead text, and the cover caption box are very high-quality reproduction paste-ups affixed to the board. " What is never clear to me is when these were done, ie, modern or part of the production process.

My assumption is that if they were vintage (i.e., part of the original production process) it would read "...logo, masthead text, and cover caption box are original paste-ups affixed to the board." I think the words "high-quality reproduction" indicates pretty clearly they're modern, at least more modern than the art. My question would be, how are they affixed?

Edit - Bronty beat me to it.

On 4/7/2024 at 1:22 AM, stinkininkin said:

Don't think anyone mentioned the Miller DD 174 page at $144k. Excellent page, and a pretty big number. With that in mind, makes me wonder if the seller is disappointed with DD 190 cover sale price, especially since it features both DD and Electra. Either way, I continue to be impressed with the strength of the Miller DD market!

I agree about the cover. I'm not the biggest Miller fan, but that DD 190 cover is very impressive, and I also was surprised it didn't go higher. Maybe it's because the cover is in layers, and the originals are difficult to display?

On 4/7/2024 at 12:21 AM, Carlo M said:

Makes sense! Some of the covers back then were obviously heavily “produced “, I guess the important is the confidence that there is no other “original “ lying around. 

I suspect there may be an "original" somewhere, but it'll be a unsightly kludge of multiple stats, white out, and rubber cement, with almost no actual "original art"! And with a value probably 1-2% of the value of what just sold. 

On 4/6/2024 at 4:07 PM, Carlo M said:

One of the strongest prices was the Buckler FF 155 cover.  It is a great image and has SS on it, but I thought the fact that its different from the published version would hold it back.  Anybody has any insights into the story of that particular cover?

No insight beyond what I can deduce from the Heritage scan and the original cover image. It looks like the original art was photostatically reduced by about 30%, with the resulting photostat mounted on a blank 10x15 board and additional bg inked in to add the tip of the surfboard, more building on the left and right, a little more ground at the bottom, and more Medusa hair as needed. A lot of the bg sky was inked black, requiring a simplification of the 'swoosh' lines off the back of the surfboard. The signatures were also whited out and inked over, then title and other stats added. Then the whole thing was photographically reduced the standard amount for printing as a cover.

I'm guessing that this was done because if the title and other stats were put on the original 10x15 board (i.e., what was sold in the auction), it would have covered up most of the SS and part of the thing. It simply wouldn't have worked. As for this now not completely matching the published cover, to my eyes, this makes the cover OA more desirable. You get a larger image of what really matters (a great, well rendered action scene!), with no ugly stats and clumsy corrections. And the signatures are revealed. If there had been significant changes to the characters, as is often seen in covers, I might feel differently, but here the figures are identical.

Sorry to be off topic, but I know people here have wide collecting interests. My sister is asking for the best place to sell a collection of rare books, first editions, etc. An elderly neighbor of hers has asked for help liquidating her collection, and my sister doesn't have time or expertise to directly help, and lives in a city with no rare book dealers. I'm guessing Heritage is a reasonable option to at least give a rough appraisal and actually sell any books that really are valuable, but wasn't sure if other auction houses are better for books.

On 3/29/2024 at 9:16 PM, brownies8701 said:

Thank you for this advice!

And thank you to everyone who has responded to this topic, really appreciate it!

Lastly, here is my CAF link for anyone that is interested:

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=164661

Thanks for sharing your CAF page. It looks to me like you're doing just fine in your collecting - that's a really nice set of pages! I like how you have a theme/preference, and are working it well. I also like that you're focused on panel pages, as I mostly have been. I tend to prefer those for a variety of reasons, especially when the pages are well chosen so they stand alone nicely, as your pages do. One thought is that you can stretch your budget to add artists who have done Batman but who tend to be more expensive, rather than buying more expensive pages by artists you already have. I've tended in the opposite direction, being more artist-driven than character driven, but Batman is a great character for bringing out the best in a variety of artists, no matter their style. Check out the Batman Dark Age book that just came out. I'm a big Allred fan and am enjoying his take.

On 3/30/2024 at 6:28 AM, tth2 said:

Definitely don't store them somewhere in the house while it's being renovated.  Why can't you store them wherever you're staying while you're waiting for the renovations to be finished?  Or maybe in a friend's basement?  There've been so many horror stories about theft from self-storage places that I'd be concerned about using off-site storage.

A basement is the last place I'd put OA (or anything vulnerable to moisture/mold). I've known of several people who had their basements flood (my mother's basement twice flooded to the rafters), and lots of basements are just generally dank. Mold is a much bigger threat to OA than theft. Attics have the opposite problem, poor temperature control and often become ovens in warm weather.

I've kept my OA in my house during renovations several times. I have other valuable things and electronics, much of which would be a much bigger target for theft by workers, or would be more vulnerable to damage. I just took reasonable precautions. Unless the renovation involves gutting the house, I would just move the things wanted to protect to a room that wasn't affected by the renovation, and lock it in a closet. A home security camera setup with live feed is also pretty easy and cheap to set up, so you can keep an eye on things during the day while out of the house (during my renovations I was always living in the house). If you're doing something so extensive that you have to move out for a while, then yes, I'd move the art to wherever I was stying in the interim.

Also, my family and I have used temp/humidity controlled self storage places for years without issue. I think the key is that when you put stuff in there, don't let it be obvious that it's really valuable stuff, and you check out the crime history at different facilities before you rent. Most storage units are full of stuff with minimal resale value, and are low value/high risk targets for thieves. in the rare cases where units are broken into, my impression is that it's usually because the thieves had insider knowledge of which units to target.

Ultimately you need to figure out what really floats your boat, and act accordingly. What I mean is, what does your gut tell you when you're looking at OA? I think we're all very different in what we want from, and get out of, this hobby/obsession. Are you bringing a comic collector mentality to buying OA? Are you driven by nostalgia for what you were excited by as a kid? Or do you love these pages as unique and magical objects, records of a crazy process to somehow, sometimes, transmogrifies into meaningful entertainment and even a kind of art? For me it's all about the art, and the feeling I get when I look at that specific piece. Only certain artists, and only certain pages from those artists, gives me that tingle and buzz that drives me to purchase. I couldn't care less which artists/titles/characters are hot or popular, I have relatively little 'mimetic desire' and rarely suffer from FOMO. So 'popular' doesn't nudge me. I see lots of art that I can admire, that I can respect, and that I might strongly suspect will appreciate significantly, but I have no desire to own it. Looking back (I started collecting in the '80s), I wish I had been more omnivorous, since I would now have a lot of valuable art that I don't love, but that I could trade for pieces that are now much more expensive than I'm willing to go. But that ship has sailed, and I've still ended up with a bunch of pages that still excite me when I look at them. By all means stretch yourself and try buying a page or two that are more expensive, but I recommend doing that from passion, and not from calculated reason. Buy the pages with action/panels/poses/expressions/linework/composition/whatever that you find thrilling. Then see how you feel a few weeks later, and if you don't have any regrets then rinse and repeat.

Any recommendations for Europe, and the Netherlands specifically?

On 3/16/2024 at 5:43 PM, Xatari said:

I do wonder if the abundance of Sandman art over the past few years will artificially suppress prices to some extent. Very possible we could see a drought down the road followed by an uptick. Full disclosure: I do not own Sandman art or have plans on purchasing. I am just trying to be a student of the hobby and am highly interested in trend analysis. 

I think it's typical that when demand > supply, prices increase (which I think has been the case for Sandman art in the recent past). This market 'price signal' is usually followed by an increased supply (assuming an increased supply exists or can be produced, and we know there is always increased supply of OA, tucked away in collections, though for many artists/characters/books this is fairly limited). If the increased supply gluts the market (supply >> demand), prices will decrease. If increased supply roughly meets the increased demand, then price increases will be suppressed, but prices won't necessarily decrease (i.e., the 'market is cleared'). Down the road, if new buyers create increased demand, so that demand again is greater than supply, prices will tick upwards again. You can define all this as 'artificial' but I think it's more a basic free market mechanisms. 

On 2/23/2024 at 8:41 PM, 1classics said:

Yeah sounds about right. If it were a stronger page I could see it possibly over 125. I was going over the 3 Kirby/Ditko Spidey/Torch related issues, this being the larger of the 3 issues (18 pages) vs FF Annual 1 (6) & ASM 8 backup (6), so only 30 pages to work with in total. Furthermore a handful of the pages actually don't have spidey to keep in mind. Also, without question the premium pages go for the 1st meeting from FF Annual 1...

BTW- The title page to FF Annual 1 sold on Clink in '22, for right under $300k (still a deal in my eyes, I bid, but should've gone stronger a little stronger)... though still the title page, but the large title stat took away a lot of art, 2 smaller spidey images (1 back turned), nice FF group shot, but arguably one of the weaker of the 6 pages as far as content and art was concerned. With that said, I still think this page should go in or around the $100k range, more if 2 people really want a Kirby / Ditko example, IMO is the best combination!

Speaking of which if anyone has any of the FF Annual 1 pages and are willing to sell, please let me know.

It's interesting that most here don't see this as anything special relative to other Kirby/Ditko Spidey/Torch pages. I put a high premium on the beauty of the page itself (i.e., out of any other context), and this I think this is a magnificent page! I love the flow of the panels (esp. panels 2-5), the posing and composition in every single panel is excellent, and there's a magic to Ditko's inks over Kirby that makes for a very appealing Spider-Man. It's all action and it makes me smile to look at, even though I'm sure I've never read this comic. There's also something very modern about the way the page presents.

In contrast, when I look at the FF Annual splash page that sold in 2022, I don't see the same appeal. Aside from the typical unsightly stat at the top, I don't find the images of any of the characters particularly strong or appealing, especially Spider-Man. There's no interaction between any of the characters, and it's almost diagrammatic. It's exposition, not action. If I were a single guy with no family concerns like I was in my early days of collecting, this is exactly the kind of page I'd be praying no one would go above $100k because I'd love to have this on my wall.