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FrankWhite
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Posts posted by FrankWhite
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Super Real vs. The Movie Industry 1
1st Dan Mendoza work (Zombie Tramp)
Never seen this before in wild or internet.
I have this issue with the logo and price but this is some kind of "vigin" cover.
Anybody have any further information on this book or where/how I can get one?
Excuse me "fastballspecial".
Why did you send me an eBay link to a book I already have and am not looking for?
Did you bother to read my post before replying??
The book I mentioned that I have never physically seen is some sort of "virgin" cover with no price or title.
Maybe some type of ashcan?
Well thanks for replying.
I only ask that the read my comment first.
Sooooooo anyway...
Anybody with any info on the actual book I'm speaking of?
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Super Real vs. The Movie Industry 1
1st Dan Mendoza work (Zombie Tramp)
Never seen this before in wild or internet.
I have this issue with the logo and price but this is some kind of "vigin" cover.
Anybody have any further information on this book or where/how I can get one?
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How is this such a "low print run" book!?
It's all over the place!!
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Ya, I am too lazy and disinterested to read what the hell everyone is talking about soooo....
What's heating up guys?
I'm confused...
Most of these books have only 1 or 2 bids.
Explain to me how that's heating up?
Thanks
It's just a generic search link to the most recent modern sales on e-bay that went for more than 15 bucks for people to scroll through and keep busy while they await new posts.
Oh...I did not think of that.
Actually a good idea.
Yea so on topic...The DC superman stuff is intriguing though I do not know much about it.
When things get complicated and reboots run rampant I usually stop reading BUT I can certainly say I will pick up all this superman stuff to read and bring myself back up to speed.
Thanks
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Ya, I am too lazy and disinterested to read what the hell everyone is talking about soooo....
What's heating up guys?
I'm confused...
Most of these books have only 1 or 2 bids.
Explain to me how that's heating up?
Thanks
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You people do realize theres nothing you can ever say that will change the other persons opinion on the given subject
This discussion has nothing to do with opinion. This discussion has everything to do with combatting the deliberate spread of misinformation, and the correction of that misinformation, so others don't make decisions based on bad information.
If I insisted that 2 + 2 = 5, and someone else said "no, 2 + 2 = 4", would that just be two people trying to "change each other's opinion"...?
it's your opinion that there's misinformation being spread. It's their opinion that there isn't.
Did you read the original post about the variant print number??
Obviously not because it was not an opinion. He stated the print run numbers himself and then claimed "no more than 400 copies" if you did the math HIS MATH. 400 was incorrect and a deliberate spread of misinformation. Not an opinion.
Maybe you should stick to talking about Lois and Clark and Superman 52.
Your very good at that.
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You people do realize theres nothing you can ever say that will change the other persons opinion on the given subject
Agreed.
An opinion and a lie is 2 different things.
How you determine a print run I'm assuming is a matter of opinion.
Sales reflecting 460+ copies and you state "no more than 400" you are misleading people.
A lie is a lie no matter how insignificant not to mention the difference in numbers is very relevant to desirability and value.
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Could someone who objects to using the reported sales for an issue as a basis for the *estimate* of the print run of an incentive explain to me what a publisher has to gain by intentionally printing far more than they need, if they're only going to blow them out cheaply later on? What's to gain there? If there was a trail of evidence suggesting that the publisher was selling those variants at a markup later on, then there would be logic to the idea that the print run far exceeds the estimate based on sales, but it makes no sense for them to print far more if they don't need them and are going to sit on them (and pay Diamond to store them), only to let them go for pennies later.
Few things....
1. Who is saying they print "far more than they need"? That's the point: we don't know, but trying to estimate on an unrelated number is misleading at best. That's the reason why the numbers shouldn't be compared, above and beyond any other concerns.
For every X amount of copies of this regular book you order, you get/can purchase 1 copy of this incentive. That's the only concrete information we have about the incentive, and the publisher doesn't owe anybody anything beyond fulfilling those orders. That does not therefore mean that the two print runs are tied together by that distribution number. They're not. The publishers print what they want, and always have, for whatever reasons they have, whether it's precisely what they need down to the copy, or 10 times what they need to fulfill the incentive. We don't know.
Yes, the estimated sales of the regular version establishes an estimated BASELINE of possible incentive copies printed, true, but it's only a baseline. That is, "there were at least X copies printed." But the other side is open ended.
2. Who determines what Marvel "needs"? Doesn't Marvel determine what Marvel needs, for their own purposes?
3. Are you aware that Marvel warehoused around 3,000 Spiderman #1 Platinums for 15 years, until they were purchased by Todd McDevitt's New Dimension Comics around 2005? Why did Marvel print "far more than they needed", and then pay to store them for a decade and a half? Because they thought they needed them, and when they no longer thought that, they sold them.
And I guarantee you, McDevitt didn't pay anywhere near what they were worth on the market at the time.
4. Marvel prints millions of comic books every year. They aren't going to have much problem paying Diamond to store whatever amount they print above and beyond what they need.
5. It doesn't cost Marvel much more to print an extra X amount of copies than it does the regular book, since everything but the cover is the same. It costs Marvel about 50 cents a copy...and that's probably a high estimate for the big boys (vs. around $1.00/copy for 5-6k indy books.) So, if they are "blowing out" incentives for $1.25, $1.50, $2 each...they're not losing money. They're just selling books that they had about the same amount into as any other book, for about the same amount as they would get for any other book.
And you're right, they're not selling anything at a markup later on. Marvel doesn't care about that. They're not a back issue dealer. To Marvel and DC and others, however, these books are no different at all from every other book. It didn't cost them much more, if anything, to print them, it didn't cost them much more, if anything, to store them, and if they sell them for the same price they get for other books, they're not "selling them for pennies." You're thinking like a collector, or a dealer....not a publisher.
6. Nobody unintentionally prints much of anything.
Here's the things we know about what goes into the print run of an incentive variant:
1. Distribution ratio.
2. Diamond Sales numbers for the regular issue.
Here's a list of things we DON'T know that go into the print number of an incentive variant.
1. How many international issues were ordered.
2. How many orders qualified for how many variants.
3. How many of the qualified orders actually bought the incentive variants.
4. How many reserves are ordered by Diamond (and internationally).
5. What is the rounding to the nearest full case or palette (or other unit) in terms of ordering by Diamond
6. If there are any additional discounts or thresholds to be met either for ordering in general or for this specific issue (if Marvel or DC wants to push it harder). E.G. We're at 900 issues ordered so far, but at 1000 we get a discount or if we order five sets of 1000 comics each they'll toss in an extra 100 each, etc. And what if these specials are just for this month, or this season, like a Christmas bonus or Stan Lee's birthday or whatever, or in promo of a movie.
7. #6 is just Diamond telling Marvel how much they want, what about similar things for international dealers.
8. #6 and #7 are just about how much the distributors are ordering from Marvel. Similar specials, reserves, making full unit orders, freebies, etc. can happen when Marvel orders from the printer, and that doesn't even account for:
9. Marvel ordering more on top of what distributors ordered for:
a. Extras for artists, creators, staff (don't underestimate this, this can get into the hundreds pretty easily)
b. Special promotions - give out an extra freebie to stores, advertising
c. Special events - company picnics, board meetings, charity, etc.
d. Extra anticipated re-orders due to expected high sales or popularity, or an estimated low quality of print run (but what if the print run turned out ok?)
e. Any other reason they want. E.G. The printers gave us a deal, so we just ordered 1,000 of everything that month that was 1:50 or higher.
10. The printer themselves prints extra reserves based on the Marvel orders, most likely a percentage of total orders. If you had a situation wear the print run turned out exceptionally well, but EVERYONE ordered reserves along the way AND the printer printed EXTRA reserves, that's could already easily be 30-60% higher than the original number ordered by LCS's.
Any one of these things may not seem like very much individually as factors, but on a variant where someone THINKS there's between 400-600 or even 1000-2000 out there, when the number printed could quite reasonably possibly be 500-1000+ more than you originally thought, the difference could be huge. And even before considering all these reasonable special factors, we DON'T know numbers about how many were ordered on a 'normal' month. And we don't know how often even those 'normal' months occur, whether 2/3 months are normal, or half, or a third of months.
Try this one. On Feb 24, 2008 the Lakers beat the Sonics in Seattle. The Sonics scored 91 points. How many free throws did Kobe take? With that info, how valid is your guess. Yes, you could be right. But...you couldn't know unless you looked it up, or even guess in good faith, unless you wanted to say something useless like between 4 and 30 free throws.
With just the date, the opponent, the winner, and the opponents score total, how close would you get if on guessing Kobe's free throw attempts for the next ten games (without ANY additional info)? Note that this is still way easier to guess than variant print run
This is what I like to see!
This is very eloquently said and states common sense in systematic and step by step way that even a insufficiently_thoughtful_person should be able to get it.
Uh, not really.
There are at least a dozen more assumptions being made in that convoluted analysis than there are when someone simply estimates based on Comichron's distribution reports (which is also, incidentally, the closest thing to concrete, industry accepted information that we actually have).
-J.
Sorry buddy but nothing you say holds any validity with me after seeing your very 1st post about the 400 print run on that variant.
It was an obvious exaggeration at best. An outright lie at worst.
I'm not judging you I'm only going with the facts. Your numbers were intentionally low even if by theory we used your so called "formula".
I cannot take any of your posts seriously after that.
The thing is? I know you are a very intelligent man. I can tell by the way you write.
So I must come to the conclusion that it is not ignorance on your part to be misleading...it is actually intentional.
I'm sorry sir but you are very transparent and I cannot hold my tongue. I call it how I see it.
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Could someone who objects to using the reported sales for an issue as a basis for the *estimate* of the print run of an incentive explain to me what a publisher has to gain by intentionally printing far more than they need, if they're only going to blow them out cheaply later on? What's to gain there? If there was a trail of evidence suggesting that the publisher was selling those variants at a markup later on, then there would be logic to the idea that the print run far exceeds the estimate based on sales, but it makes no sense for them to print far more if they don't need them and are going to sit on them (and pay Diamond to store them), only to let them go for pennies later.
Few things....
1. Who is saying they print "far more than they need"? That's the point: we don't know, but trying to estimate on an unrelated number is misleading at best. That's the reason why the numbers shouldn't be compared, above and beyond any other concerns.
For every X amount of copies of this regular book you order, you get/can purchase 1 copy of this incentive. That's the only concrete information we have about the incentive, and the publisher doesn't owe anybody anything beyond fulfilling those orders. That does not therefore mean that the two print runs are tied together by that distribution number. They're not. The publishers print what they want, and always have, for whatever reasons they have, whether it's precisely what they need down to the copy, or 10 times what they need to fulfill the incentive. We don't know.
Yes, the estimated sales of the regular version establishes an estimated BASELINE of possible incentive copies printed, true, but it's only a baseline. That is, "there were at least X copies printed." But the other side is open ended.
2. Who determines what Marvel "needs"? Doesn't Marvel determine what Marvel needs, for their own purposes?
3. Are you aware that Marvel warehoused around 3,000 Spiderman #1 Platinums for 15 years, until they were purchased by Todd McDevitt's New Dimension Comics around 2005? Why did Marvel print "far more than they needed", and then pay to store them for a decade and a half? Because they thought they needed them, and when they no longer thought that, they sold them.
And I guarantee you, McDevitt didn't pay anywhere near what they were worth on the market at the time.
4. Marvel prints millions of comic books every year. They aren't going to have much problem paying Diamond to store whatever amount they print above and beyond what they need.
5. It doesn't cost Marvel much more to print an extra X amount of copies than it does the regular book, since everything but the cover is the same. It costs Marvel about 50 cents a copy...and that's probably a high estimate for the big boys (vs. around $1.00/copy for 5-6k indy books.) So, if they are "blowing out" incentives for $1.25, $1.50, $2 each...they're not losing money. They're just selling books that they had about the same amount into as any other book, for about the same amount as they would get for any other book.
And you're right, they're not selling anything at a markup later on. Marvel doesn't care about that. They're not a back issue dealer. To Marvel and DC and others, however, these books are no different at all from every other book. It didn't cost them much more, if anything, to print them, it didn't cost them much more, if anything, to store them, and if they sell them for the same price they get for other books, they're not "selling them for pennies." You're thinking like a collector, or a dealer....not a publisher.
6. Nobody unintentionally prints much of anything.
Here's the things we know about what goes into the print run of an incentive variant:
1. Distribution ratio.
2. Diamond Sales numbers for the regular issue.
Here's a list of things we DON'T know that go into the print number of an incentive variant.
1. How many international issues were ordered.
2. How many orders qualified for how many variants.
3. How many of the qualified orders actually bought the incentive variants.
4. How many reserves are ordered by Diamond (and internationally).
5. What is the rounding to the nearest full case or palette (or other unit) in terms of ordering by Diamond
6. If there are any additional discounts or thresholds to be met either for ordering in general or for this specific issue (if Marvel or DC wants to push it harder). E.G. We're at 900 issues ordered so far, but at 1000 we get a discount or if we order five sets of 1000 comics each they'll toss in an extra 100 each, etc. And what if these specials are just for this month, or this season, like a Christmas bonus or Stan Lee's birthday or whatever, or in promo of a movie.
7. #6 is just Diamond telling Marvel how much they want, what about similar things for international dealers.
8. #6 and #7 are just about how much the distributors are ordering from Marvel. Similar specials, reserves, making full unit orders, freebies, etc. can happen when Marvel orders from the printer, and that doesn't even account for:
9. Marvel ordering more on top of what distributors ordered for:
a. Extras for artists, creators, staff (don't underestimate this, this can get into the hundreds pretty easily)
b. Special promotions - give out an extra freebie to stores, advertising
c. Special events - company picnics, board meetings, charity, etc.
d. Extra anticipated re-orders due to expected high sales or popularity, or an estimated low quality of print run (but what if the print run turned out ok?)
e. Any other reason they want. E.G. The printers gave us a deal, so we just ordered 1,000 of everything that month that was 1:50 or higher.
10. The printer themselves prints extra reserves based on the Marvel orders, most likely a percentage of total orders. If you had a situation wear the print run turned out exceptionally well, but EVERYONE ordered reserves along the way AND the printer printed EXTRA reserves, that's could already easily be 30-60% higher than the original number ordered by LCS's.
Any one of these things may not seem like very much individually as factors, but on a variant where someone THINKS there's between 400-600 or even 1000-2000 out there, when the number printed could quite reasonably possibly be 500-1000+ more than you originally thought, the difference could be huge. And even before considering all these reasonable special factors, we DON'T know numbers about how many were ordered on a 'normal' month. And we don't know how often even those 'normal' months occur, whether 2/3 months are normal, or half, or a third of months.
Try this one. On Feb 24, 2008 the Lakers beat the Sonics in Seattle. The Sonics scored 91 points. How many free throws did Kobe take? With that info, how valid is your guess. Yes, you could be right. But...you couldn't know unless you looked it up, or even guess in good faith, unless you wanted to say something useless like between 4 and 30 free throws.
With just the date, the opponent, the winner, and the opponents score total, how close would you get if on guessing Kobe's free throw attempts for the next ten games (without ANY additional info)? Note that this is still way easier to guess than variant print run
This is what I like to see!
This is very eloquently said and states common sense in systematic and step by step way that even a insufficiently_thoughtful_person should be able to get it.
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+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !
I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.
Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?
Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.
I've been told similar.
By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.
But it falls under the CGC board logic category:
Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.
I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.
As have many retailers here.
OK now I'm going to keep it short, simple and to the point.
WHEN TALKING ABOUT "LIMITED" VARIANTS WITH LOW NUMBERS...
THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 COPIES AND 675 COPIES.
I mean "Hello McFly"
275 surplus copies??? Ummmm. That's more than half the amount that is originaly being claimed.
Now I'm sure everyone is wondering why I'm going over such simple math.
Well it seems some do not understand simple math or it's implications on small print runs.
Wake up to reality. Stop claiming 400 when you know that's impossible.
It makes you an intentional lier.
Why put a print run number on it at all?
You don't know...
I don't know...
The customer doesn't know.
Cocgobbler #1 1:75 variant is sufficient
Cocgobbler?
1:75??
Is the the S.Platt cover???
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+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !
I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.
Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?
Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.
I've been told similar.
By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.
But it falls under the CGC board logic category:
Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.
I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.
As have many retailers here.
OK now I'm going to keep it short, simple and to the point.
WHEN TALKING ABOUT "LIMITED" VARIANTS WITH LOW NUMBERS...
THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 COPIES AND 675 COPIES.
I mean "Hello McFly"
275 surplus copies??? Ummmm. That's more than half the amount that is originaly being claimed.
Now I'm sure everyone is wondering why I'm going over such simple math.
Well it seems some do not understand simple math or it's implications on small print runs.
Wake up to reality. Stop claiming 400 when you know that's impossible.
It makes you an intentional lier.
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I would suspect that SOMETIMES, maybe even MOST of the time, the publishers print in numbers that we would 'expect' based on sales numbers, and what we can loosely ESTIMATE based on WHAT WE THINK the distribution is for a given comic, based on the ratio. But is most 50% of time? 70%? Who knows?
Already, we've made a lot of general assumptions there, and that's just to get a very general range.
The problem is we've already seen MANY situations where not even those very general assumptions hold up.
So to make a guesstimate about any specific comic and its actual print run given the factors already mentioned - actual order number including international, extra printing upwards because of future potential shortages, printing to meet a specific discount threshold, printing to the nearest complete palette or case, extra printing for artists, execs, writers, investors, extra printing for other special occasions or promos....there's simply too many variables to even make a reasonable estimate with any VALUE.
There's just not enough KNOWN, verifiable, relevant data points to make any useful claims or estimates about specific comics. Anyone can of course, believe what they want based on the limited information they have, with whatever level of certainty they're comfortable with. But to disseminate that information with any level of useful certainty can really only be either disingenuous or ignorant, unless you're tossing in a whole boatload of disclaimers which would nearly render the statement useless to begin with.
There's nothing wrong with people making good faith estimates based on the data that we do have. And yes, some people on these boards are privy to more data than others.
It's only when the same two or three "print run estimate police" feel the constant need to vomit their repetitive opinions over and over and over again that the conversation goes sideways.
-J.
As predicted, this is an example of those people who will report their opinion as fact, and then accuse others of doing the same when challenged.
Note the use of (actually) condescending, dismissive language, such as "print run estimate police" and "vomit their repetitive opinions."
If someone was sure of their position, they probably wouldn't need to resort to this type of language to make their point, would they...?
I invite everyone to carefully consider the evidence, and come to your own conclusions. Don't listen to any one voice, or even group of voices. Carefully consider the evidence for yourself, and see what you come up with.
As has been said, it is not possible to make "good faith estimates" with the information that is available. As for some people being "more privy to data" than others, I invite anyone with such "access" to share that data. Otherwise, it's just another way of saying "I don't have to prove what I'm saying; I know people who know things. Things!"
Don't tolerate that, for a second. Hold everyone up to higher standards.
Those 3 certain people are correct in pointing out your folly.
Maybe if you did not foolishly imply a print run of 400 on that Venom cover? Hmmmmm
It's the blatant dishonesty and misinformation that caught my attention.
Yea you can try your nonsensical banter about me being a "newb" but that will not validate your purposeful lies.
I'm sorry but I'm compelled to call you on your bs because I think you know better. That actually makes you a lier. NOT CALLING NAMES...JUST AN EDUCATED ASSUMPTION USING THE FACTS ON HAND.
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Yes. I'm certain you are correct.
I apologize.
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Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.
The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.
No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.
It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.
Fact.
And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.
Actually, Paul does know.And don't you too?
http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=7
...or are you just going to default back to the "Marvel is lying" position or claim that they arbitrarily print stacks of books that no retailer has ordered again?
Ugh, I'm done with this conversation.
-J.
This guy is to much. I'm new and I can tell you this guy is a broken record with his silly claims on print runs like he's printing the books.
His math is horrible.
I wish he can understand. Nobody saying there not scarce.
It's just his slick way of rounding his numbers to the lowest hundred and making unfounded claims that annoys people.
I'm sure he's a great guy and I would love to have a beer with him but he is super funny.
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I love it when noobs who obviously know nothing about me attempt to make assumptions..
Yes, my "agenda" was to point out a book (another Venom variant) that looked to be heating up.
You know, the point of the thread.
-J.
Carry on good sir
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Venom volume 2 #9. Book has no significance what so ever and yet I can't seem to find a Jank reader copy anywhere.
Huh
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The Journey Into Mystery Venom variant (#633) looks to be heating up:
-J.
yeah, these books just keep going up.
Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants
I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up.
This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up.
Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback:
More than a year ago
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50
22 bucks and a free TPB
They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more.I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong.
With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed.
-J.
Your math is off buddy
. Care to explain how?-J.
Because you didn't do exact math and get 460.
I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers. Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time.
-J.
This is why I said its curious wantedcomix had so many copies. Ive counted using sold sales from their feedback and im at 28 separate copies of JIM 633 venom variant. There is no way they ordered 1,400 copies of the regular issue to qualify for all of these. Thor # 10 as well, im at 35 separate copies of that venom variant that they have sold in the past 3 years.
They somehow got a hold of the undistributed, non-qualified for, venom variants back 3 years ago. Probably from Diamond.
That's the fallacy with these LOW print run " guesses"
So you are at 460 copies based on diamond orders of the regular issue, and stress that obviously not all shops qualified to get this issue. So its even lower?
Sorry that's not how it works. They don't wait until diamond gets its orders from the stores and then go back and print and second batch of these books with the variant cover based on those orders. It would be severely cost inefficient to do so. They print them all at the same time. They would typically use previous sales numbers to get a base number to print for the variant like the 460 you came up with, knowing that not all retailers would qualify. Round numbers make sense. It would make much more sense that they printed 500 copies, not worrying about how many retailers qualified, just being happy that they made enough to cover that offer.
Remember that artists usually get a few copies of the covers they do, some books are given away in house as well. What happens to the balance that isn't distributed? They are surely are not used as firewood. It would be easier for diamond to just sell them a few months or a year later at cover price or lower, which is probably how WantedComix managed to get so many.
So for Journey into Mystery # 633 1:50 variant. We have to assume a scenario like this. 500 printed. A reasonable guess of about 300 copies distributed to stores that qualified for the variant. 50 copies going to artists and In house. 150 copies leftover, which are later distributed by diamond, probably offered to their largest account holders first at low prices.
Even on the outside of both extremes, our estimated numbers are not very far apart. In fact, we are probably quibbling over a less than 100 copies difference.
Either way, the JIM 633 Venom is easily going to be the scarcest Venom variant of the group given the title's sales figures, regardless of which single comic shop managed to get their hands on whatever scant copies were leftover.
-J.
Ummmm...no.
When you are talking about numbers like 400, 100 is a significant percentage amount. There's no denying it's rare. It's just that trying to make it seem rarer is just not necessary and misleading.
Of course unless you have an agenda...hmmmmm
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The Journey Into Mystery Venom variant (#633) looks to be heating up:
-J.
yeah, these books just keep going up.
Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants
I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up.
This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up.
Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback:
More than a year ago
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50
22 bucks and a free TPB
They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more.I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong.
With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed.
-J.
Your math is off buddy
. Care to explain how?-J.
Because you didn't do exact math and get 460.
I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers. Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time.
-J.
This is why I said its curious wantedcomix had so many copies. Ive counted using sold sales from their feedback and im at 28 separate copies of JIM 633 venom variant. There is no way they ordered 1,400 copies of the regular issue to qualify for all of these. Thor # 10 as well, im at 35 separate copies of that venom variant that they have sold in the past 3 years.
They somehow got a hold of the undistributed, non-qualified for, venom variants back 3 years ago. Probably from Diamond.
That's the fallacy with these LOW print run " guesses"
So you are at 460 copies based on diamond orders of the regular issue, and stress that obviously not all shops qualified to get this issue. So its even lower?
Sorry that's not how it works. They don't wait until diamond gets its orders from the stores and then go back and print and second batch of these books with the variant cover based on those orders. It would be severely cost inefficient to do so. They print them all at the same time. They would typically use previous sales numbers to get a base number to print for the variant like the 460 you came up with, knowing that not all retailers would qualify. Round numbers make sense. It would make much more sense that they printed 500 copies, not worrying about how many retailers qualified, just being happy that they made enough to cover that offer.
Remember that artists usually get a few copies of the covers they do, some books are given away in house as well. What happens to the balance that isn't distributed? They are surely are not used as firewood. It would be easier for diamond to just sell them a few months or a year later at cover price or lower, which is probably how WantedComix managed to get so many.
So for Journey into Mystery # 633 1:50 variant. We have to assume a scenario like this. 500 printed. A reasonable guess of about 300 copies distributed to stores that qualified for the variant. 50 copies going to artists and In house. 150 copies leftover, which are later distributed by diamond, probably offered to their largest account holders first at low prices.
Thank you...someone that has a realistic sense of print numbers!
-
Originally posted by ygogolak in the comics you cannot find at your LCS thread.
Static 45 final issue sporting cool cover art by Mobius is moving and selling strong since his post. It's had a solid value of 50-100 bucks for a while now but looks like interest has picked up.
Is there any way to find out what the seller accepted as the best offer price? That is without contacting the seller directly?
$124.00 watchount.com
Yet there's one up with a $50 BIN
Should take a better look at the details. Read the discription on that 50.00 BIN "Damage to lower left corner".
You can clearly see the damage from the black on back cover. It's not even close to a high NM.
Would you pay more than 50.00 for that copy???
I would not. Considering there is only 1 9.8 and 1 9.6 graded I would say 124.00 for a potential 9.6 is a good buy. Personally I am done taking risks on raw books for over 100.00 on eBay.
If anyone has a high grade copy NM-M please let me know.
I'm sure we can work something out.
-
The Journey Into Mystery Venom variant (#633) looks to be heating up:
-J.
yeah, these books just keep going up.
Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants
I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up.
This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up.
Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback:
More than a year ago
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50
22 bucks and a free TPB
They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more.I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong.
With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed.
-J.
Your math is off buddy
. Care to explain how?-J.
I'm not humoring foolishness. Enjoy your day sir
-
Originally posted by ygogolak in the comics you cannot find at your LCS thread.
Static 45 final issue sporting cool cover art by Mobius is moving and selling strong since his post. It's had a solid value of 50-100 bucks for a while now but looks like interest has picked up.
-
Yea that math is off...this guys funny!
-
Well the thread started out great! Some cool books that are not manufactured collectables or bs variants. Real books with genuine low prints. The Gen 13 variants that were posted were pretty cool though. Now it's just sorta losing steam. Legends toy variants??? Ummmm.OK. not rare and not hard to find but OK.
Actually, Paul does know.
Books you just cant find in the Wild
in Modern Age Comic Books
Posted
I'm not aware of it being a variant. I am thinking its an ashcan. I actually have no idea that is why I was asking.
Obviously you do not have the answer because you send me a link to something else.
You wanna be slick with your mouth...OK tuff Tony.
Funny sad boy.