EastEnd1

Ouch

Enjoy your dinner

I'm not sure you're understanding the issue still. No reholder is necessary. CGC never needs to touch the book for the scam to work. As far as Ewert goes, I followed it very closely at the time. If you have more unscrupulous information to share, then share it.

Don't want to talk about the other company but that same chemist has posted more than one video on opening holders..

Well this "mastermind" managed to capture reflections of himself in most of the Ebay listing photos of his doctored books, so I'm not quite sure how smart he is. But yes, there is no shortage of bright unscrupulous people in NY!

Yep. I believe Vinnie Zurzola's first comic store was in Forest Hills...

Forest Hills is easily one of the most affluent areas in the outer boroughs.

Oh I'd never take that bet... I'm very certain the same exact thing was said back then! And I appreciate that you recognize the seriousness of this. But I do think Ewert and this new scandal are different. CGC survived Ewert because they acted quickly, promised to make people whole, convinced the market that the population of doctored books was relatively small, and developed "a fix" to catch micro-trimming going forward. Whether they did or didn't, the market accepted the solution and CGC continued it's gatekeeper role in protecting collectors. The thing with the Ewert scam though is that the books HAD to go through CGC (the trusted "gatekeeper"). The issue for a potential micro-trimming scammer was not so much can I scam a buyer, but would the intermediary experts and their "new fix" that I was forced to go through (ie,CGC) catch me. A somewhat risky proposition that I'm sure has dissuaded potential copycats. Maybe some doctored books have gotten through, maybe not, who knows... but one thing we do know for sure is that NO micro-trimming scandal has emerged since Ewert, and this with so many more eyeballs carefully looking over comics these days. The trust has held. This new scandal is very different from Ewert. There is no need for the books to go through the gatekeeper. Anyone with a little knowledge (that is now in the public domain) and practice, can very simply open the holder, replace the book, seal the holder back up, and list it on Ebay. No gatekeeper gets to re-look at the book to potentially catch the scam. (And frankly the gatekeeper wasn't doing such a good job catching their own resealed holders from this as yet unnamed culprit to begin with... but presumably they will fix that). These new scams will therefore continue to happen from other copycat scammers that have/will become aware of this. And without a fix for the huge population of already issued holders (which at this point escapes me and most others), the new scam will fester and grow... it has too, there's no policeman in the way. And once that happens, the trust in CGC, at least as far as pre-existing holders is concerned, will be dangerously eroded. That strikes me as something to worry about.

Have you seen the videos posted in the last few days of how to do it? And have you noticed how EASY it is? Take a look at how many people have viewed these videos since they were released... 10k in TWO days on the CGC holder. This has less to do with who's already done it. It has EVERYTHING to do with how many can potentially do it going forward with 7-8 million susceptible slabs. Once the trust in CGC is gone, it's game over for the slab gold rush, my friend.

The other gut punch with Ewert is that he was a very well known dealer... I bought plenty of books from him in the 1990s at NY conventions... I found him to be great to work with at the time.

Both CGC, and the market for graded comics, survived Ewert... and some! This one is still to be determined. There are 7-8 million slabs out there that can apparently be opened and resealed with little to no noticeable difference. Not that it matters at all which scandal is/was worse... fact is we have a "red alert" going on here folks that needs solving pretty quickly.

And that's getting it past CGC. Imagine hair dryer, replace, glue, and simply list on Ebay.

You can find it on Youtube... just look up Immaculate Comics. .

The reholder process is what this particular scam artist used, at least for the books that were caught. What Immaculate Comics demonstrated is that you could execute the same scam without going through a reholder process.

Not sure how much of this thread you've been able to get through, but one of the things that's emerged is that the "tamper-proof CGC holders" turn out to be pretty easy to open and reseal, with a substituted book inside. It potentially implicates every CGC slab.

This has the potential to be far worse than Ewert.

Like I said, if you still have access to emails from that period (December 2019) you probably have a few from eBay related to this transaction (when you bid, when you won, when you paid, etc)... so long as you didn't delete them.

Maybe check your emails from eBay during that period. They're constantly sending me confirms for every little thing. Nice to see deep-pocketed eBay seems to be involved.

CGC clearly knows who the culprit is and very likely has been in touch with them. Must be very interesting where this stands right now between the two of them.

This is exactly what I've been thinking... he's pretty panicked right now and yes "not sleeping well". That's why the more he hears about the FBI getting involved, the better.

It's not one vs the other... both need to happen. And a very public prosecution will dissuade many. The recent crime wave the country has experienced is largely due to perpetrators NOT being prosecuted... so crime festers cause it's easy to get away with it. Humans being humans, no fixes will prevent scammers in the entirety. And crime will never be eliminated. But the risk, from where it is today, can be substantially reduced by publicly holding people to account. A combination of defensive and offensive strategies is superior to simply a defensive one.

I'm not a lawyer but technically speaking, I believe CRIMINAL charges are brought by the state, not the victim. A cooperating victim is usually necessary though to have a successful prosecution. In this case, criminal fraud worthy of prosecution seems to have been committed. CGC's cooperation in that prosecution, whether a "criminal" victim or not, would seem to be integral to a successful finding of guilt. So at the end of the day, it really is up to them to "pursue accountability to the fullest extent of the law". It's true that a criminal investigation could reveal some aspects of CGC's processes or decision-making that could cause embarrassment, or yes even civil litigation. CGC, working with its attorneys, is best positioned to evaluate that. But if this individual is not held to account in a very serious and public way, its simply inviting a flood of copycat scammers to attack and undermine their service. It's a tough situation for CGC... but this latter aspect strikes me as a more perilous route. CGC, and the market for graded comics, very likely will survive this scandal. But how many more will both be able to absorb??

If we're going to dissuade copycat scammers, this fellow needs to be prosecuted criminally and go to jail (in addition to being sued civilly). Mail fraud strikes me as a good start. The digital trail of evidence must be ridiculously strong... and the FBI has capabilities that will turn all those shadowy reflections of the scammer in his listing photos into sunny clear pictures. Mr Scammer will plea bargain a guilty plea.

I think everyone who bought from this scammer and got defrauded should file a case with the FBI. If enough people do... if the claim repeats itself many times, involving victims all across the country... they'll take it up, regardless of what CGC does. (And btw, I do believe CGC will report it to the appropriate authorities, if they haven't already...isn't that what "held accountable to the fullest extent of the law" means? ). Frankly, I think the FBI would enjoy all the free publicity they would get from taking down a scam involving some of the nations most popular film characters.

Has anyone had newly graded books shipped back to them in the last week or so? I have a UV submission received 12/21 that doesn't seem to be moving. Just wondering if they've put a hold on sending books back out for the time being.