TheLexLuthorCollection

About 10 years ago, I saw a Golden Age Action Comics graded 9.0 on e-Bay.  I asked the seller for the grader notes.  When he saw the notes, he was surprised that it indicated that there was a slight dab of glue which was not noted on the Blue label.  When he contacted CGC's top grader, he was puzzled and could not confirm whether the book had glue or not.  Eventually, the seller decided to resubmit the book for pressing and regrading.  The book came back as a 9.2.  The label did not indicate any glue and I did not ask about the revised grader notes.

On 1/30/2024 at 6:23 AM, Superman2006 said:

I agree that grading companies provide a valuable service, as they provide a 3rd party grade and resto check, but that said, I don't think it's fair to lump all dealers in the same bucket. I've purchased from &/or wouldn't hesitate to purchase raw books from some dealers like Bob Storms (highgradecomics), Mr. Bedrock (bedrockcity.com), James Payette (jamespayettecomics.com), and mycomicshop.com (which even has a reputation for undergrading), to name a few. No offense to anyone that I left off; just naming a few that came to my mind first...

Thanks for your recommendations.  I will certainly look into these dealers

The jump in grade from 7.0 to 9.4 for the Okajima book certainly sounds mind boggling but the 7.0 looks to me that it was under graded.

Personally, I find that the grading companies provide a valuable service despite the recent reholder scandal and this issue with the Okajima book.  I don't trust any dealer to grade a book accurately.  The temptation to over grade is too great and every sight unseen purchase that I have made has been a disappointment.  With most of the premium stuff being sold at auction and through the internet, I welcome companies such as CGC.

On 1/13/2024 at 5:09 PM, atomised said:

Any ideas why this book sold wildly way above recent comps?

Swagglehaus (Mickey Finnegan) on You Tube actually covered this suspicious sale recently.  He suggested that perhaps there may be some money laundering going on.  Automatic Comics (Ryan) on You Tube also noticed exorbitant prices being paid for "run filler" DC books on Heritage.  For example, 2 weeks ago, he pointed out three Teen Titans issues at 9.8 selling for between $12K- $21K each.   A few months ago, he pointed a Superman #35 CGC 7.5 selling for $5K and a Superman $45 CGC 6.0 selling for about $4k.  Something was definitely off with all these sales given that it takes "two to tango" to reach these prices so it can't be just one "dumb bidder".  It should be noted that Heritage is not obligated to report auction transactions to the IRS which tends to give some credence to Swagglehaus' suggestion that money laundering may be at work.  

On 1/12/2024 at 5:51 AM, Silver Surfer said:

That did cross my mind too but why sell so quickly unless it’s only the thrill of the chase that drives them most?

My guess is that it was a different person.  Many of the Promise Books that recently came back for re-auction were DC Books.  With the exception of the grail books like Superman #1 and All Star 8, the Golden Age DC's in the current auction are largely mid-Grade or less.  Folks who buy 9.0+ graded books like the Promise Collection would not have mid-grades in their collection to sell.

On 1/11/2024 at 12:08 PM, MrBedrock said:

The Promise Action 136 sold for a profit!

I noticed that the book was recently listed on Steve Ritter's  Worldwide Comics website.  In April 2022, the book was acquired for $3120 at HA.  At the time, the book graded at 9.2.  It looks like the book was pressed and re-graded to 9.4.  For the current HA auction, the seller (Steve?)  sold it for $4200.  Of course, there is the  seller's premium and press and grading charges.  Still a tidy profit.  

On 1/10/2024 at 10:34 PM, Professor K said:

Ok I gave it 9 hours thinking someone will answer this and I'll figure out what the heck it means. So uh yeah, there's that. 

On 1/11/2024 at 7:22 AM, szav said:

I think he’s referring to the reholder swap scam, see the thread in comics general.  These books weren’t in the possession of the offending party and aren’t on the list.  The scam also wouldn’t have worked with high profile/rare and easy to identify/pedigree books I don’t think.

 

 

Most of the books that have been identified by CGC as part of the reholder swap scam are newer books were there are a huge number of high grade books which makes the swapping much easier.  The Showcase #4, however, is extremely rare to find in high grade (especially for a 9.6) and a swap would be very difficult.  With that said, when I take a close look at the scan, the top left corner is not close to perfect and there is spine wear.  Not sure if it is a 9.6 and it may have been over graded. 

On 12/23/2023 at 11:40 AM, detective35 said:

I have absolutely no doubt you bought what you bought, but don't tell me in a somewhat condescending tone (with no knowledge for what that went down in our deals) that I didn't handle a couple of thousand of his DC's which i bought directly from Calvin when I visited him multiple times as he lived only three hours away from me in Rivers, Manitoba   If you want, give him a call and verify.  I Either bought or moved these books for him in the 1990s..

I do know the person that bought some of Calvin's early DC's (Ron F)  and if that's you,  I'm saying hello because we've talked about this Slobodan collection before over the phone).

 I only bought and sold, or middle man books directly from Calvin,    I sold a number of the sci-fi books to Bob Casalli, Mic Rabin , Allan Bartholomew, and many others

The runs I got that were complete or near complete runs of house of mystery and secrets, mystery in space, tales of the unexpected, green lantern, Hawkman,   The brave and bold (A friend of mine bought the one to 27 ) minus the 28,29 and 30, the showcase run minus the flashes,  and the nine and the 10,and  the Tommy's, and a few other sci-fi runs, Along with the rip hunter and other offshoot titles  from the showcase and the brave and the bold runs, and a number of other mini runs.

 

You are right in Superman, action, Batman detective, and flash up to about 115 were not  there.

The early flashes were gone, but I got the 123 and most of them after that and multiple other DC runs.

Also got a few of the marvel  runs, but the big ones had sold before I got in there.  he did have the daredevil, and X-Men runs left and most of the strange tales.

Calvin had already sold most of his Timely's  to John Verzyl, and through  the years had sold some of miscellaneous books to his friend Ferd and other collectors.

He had some golden age DC books that he had just acquired,  and runs of some of the qualities and foxes in fwhich had a number of Larson copies in them. I had bought the hit one to 17 and traded back to him this run, keeping the what we suspected was the 11 Larson and replacing it with the cosmic Aeroplane.  Borock at that time would not verify it as the Larson, even though when you held it up to a light, it had Larson on it that had been erased which Calvin was notorious for.  I think Richard Evans has that book now.

We are both in 100% agreement with how nice the books were right off the newsstand (right up there with the white mountains ) and they should've been pedigreed although Borock refused to pedigree them as Calvin had sent him in a group of books and replaced one that he must've sold with a colour touched issue, and this set off Steve and he refused to call his collection a pedigree under any circumstance.

Dwight Fuhro

 

Hi Dwight, 

I apologize but I did not mean to come across as condescending.   Rather, I was interested in trying to fill in some blanks in the backstory of the collection.  In particular, the silver age Marvels.  At the time of my purchase, Calvin was not interested in selling them or the Green Lanterns.  

A few years ago, I did ask Matt Nelson of CGC why the Slobodian's were not classified as a Pedigree by CGC.  What he told me was that Calvin's collection was not all original owner copies which disqualified the collection from being called a Pedigree.  Your mention of Calvin also having acquired some Larson's and Cosmic Airplane books supports Nelson's comments.  Although, my guess is that the vast majority of the Slobodian collection was purchased by him off the newsstand and to disqualify the whole collection does  seem to be a bit harsh.  

Anyway, based on what you said, it all fits.  No, I am not Ron F.

On 12/22/2023 at 9:50 PM, detective35 said:

I handled most of the Slobodian DC‘s and entire run of showcase was there minus the flash issues and the 9 & 10.

They were sold a couple of years prior to me handling many of the DC’s.

You may have handled some of the DC Slobodian books that I sold.  I bought the DC collection  directly from Calvin Slobodian in 1976 through an ad that he placed in The Buyer's Guide (I may still have copies of my correspondence with Calvin).  I still have the Action Comics, Superman, Superboy and World's Finest books but I sold the rest a few years after acquiring them.  As I recall, for the Showcase books, Calvin only sold me the Flash and Tommy Tomorrow titles.  Mr. Slobodian, at the time, wanted to keep the Jack Kirby Challengers of the Unknown and the Gil Kane Green Lantern books.  Anyway, it is great learning more about this amazing collection.  I should have kept the Showcase #4 :-(

Thanks.

On 12/20/2023 at 6:06 PM, drotto said:

Would it be practical to put a "clip" around the edge of each side of the holder, that would break with any tampering, in addition to the sonic weld? I know that would mean a redesign. 

For a $10K and $100K book, CGC charges $400 and $4000 respectively for grading.  Surely, CGC can afford to put the expensive books in more secure slabs.  A $1M book would cost $40K to grade and deserves more than a cheap, plastic slab.  Keep the current slab for books under $5K.

On 12/21/2023 at 1:18 PM, buttock said:

The Bethlehem is a 9.0 on HA in 2011, was that upgraded?  Do you recall if there was an Overstreet copy?  Maybe a Slobodian?  I can't think of much else. 

Around 1975, I purchased most of Slobodian's DC collection including the Showcase comics.  Showcase #4 was at best a 7.0.  I no longer have it since I sold it years ago.   

On 11/17/2023 at 4:57 AM, DanCooper said:

I guess these cross the $1 million LOSS threshold for the Promise Collection resales.

Don't know if MasterChief's Promise tracking has been updated recently, but this was the list from September:

Anyone notice the prices realized from the recent Heritage auction of the Joker Collection of Robert Ben Garant?  It had 4 Promise books including Detective Comics #124 and #149 which originally sold for $120,000 and $102,000 respectively in June 2021.  However, on Thursday these books sold for $40,800 and $26,400 respectively.  That is a $ loss of $154,800.  Neither of these books are keys.  I am not aware of other six figure Promise books that realized such % losses.  Not a great day for Mr. Garant and a demonstration of the risk in having a dedicated auction in one's name.

On 12/4/2023 at 7:03 AM, tth2 said:

You're right, I've always had it in my head that the 9.8 ASM 1 long owned by Brulato was a Curator, but now I remembered that that copy was a non-pedigree.  

 

Can anyone tell me who is Brulato?

On 12/2/2023 at 7:19 PM, Kryptic1 said:

Yes, it sold for $2.6M at Comicconnect in Dec ‘21.  The All Star 8 sold for $1.6M at Heritage in June ‘22.

I thought a Superman #1 CGC 7.0 sold at Goldin a few months back?  What made that sale remarkable was that the same copy sold also at Goldin previously for about $2.5M.  Anyone know if this is the Goldin copy?

On 11/1/2023 at 7:00 AM, tth2 said:

Still seems bizarre to me.  It'd be like if I suddenly got into collecting sports cards for investment purposes and my first big purchases were of obscure players rather than Hall of Famers.

I would not say the Promise books auctioned in the Heritage June and September  signature auctions were "obscure players".  Rather they were largely Superman (including Action Comics), Batman (including Detective Comics) and Wonder Woman.  To an astute and experienced  Golden Age collector, they may not be "Hall of Famers" but to a novice collector, it is all he/she knows.

On 10/27/2023 at 7:36 PM, lou_fine said:

Any idea if this was a long time comic book collector or a drive by newbie speculator to the comic book collectibles market who thought they could make a quick killing and fast getaway, only to get themself financially killed in the process?    

I did not ask that question at NYCC but 2 years ago during the Promise Collection frenzy, I did ask this Heritage person whether the insane prices were being driven by traditional collectors or newbies with deep pockets.  He told me the latter.

On 10/26/2023 at 2:37 PM, lou_fine said:

Just took a look at their Platinum Session and is it just me, or is both the quantity and quality of the books less than normal with only 12 comic book lots and 28 Platinum lots in total.  

Not sure if it's going to be second time lucky with this recently graded CGC 9.6 copy of Richie Rich #1 after the last one sold for some $108K in their last Signature Auction back in June. 

And are there no Promise Collection books coming up for resale in this upcoming Signature Auction which is probably a sign that the owners of these promise books are getting tired of being taken to the woodshed and getting a financial whupping applied to them.  

When I was at New York Comic Con, I spoke to a Heritage Auctions representative who confirmed my suspicion that most of the Promise Book consignments from the last two Signature Auctions came from a single individual.  That person took a huge bath and presumably has sold everything which could explain the absence of Promise books for this auction.  

On 9/16/2023 at 5:19 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

The Actions went a little low the first time. I recall that there was very little action (no pun intended) in the first few minutes of one of the Saturday Promise auctions, and with few live bidders the auctioneer burned through the Promise Actions within minutes. Anybody who logged in a few minutes late would have missed the opportunity to bid on them.

I am sorry but I have to disagree that the reason the Action Comics did relatively well compared to the Detective Comics in the last Signature Auction was  due to a few bidders logging in late.  If we look at how Wonder Woman did in the last Signature Auction, 18 were offered for auction.  7 showed about 20% losses.  2 were about the same but 9 showed increases in winning bids.  A pattern similar to the Action Comics.  Yet all 12 Detectives offered for auction showed declines.  I have to think that there were more "deep pocket" Batman buyers during the first go around.

On 9/14/2023 at 7:42 PM, tth2 said:

But some went for quite a bit more.

Agree.  Although it was a bit odd.  All the Promise Detective Comics took a bath ranging from 10-45%.  However, the Promise Action Comics had four issues that sold for more (including Action Comics #100 which previously sold for $12K but sold for $20.4K in this auction).  Four that saw little change, three that suffered about a 15% decline and four  issues that saw declines of 30% or more.  Not sure why the Detectives took a bigger hit than the Actions.  Perhaps, their previous prices were more inflated during the frenzy of 2021.  

On 8/25/2023 at 11:55 AM, Sauce Dog said:

Is it just me or has HA's shipping gone up again?

The shipping for a single slab in the last auction has now come back to me as costing $100usd, while my previous single slab order of similar value last year was only $75. Yikeeess.

I recently won on Heritage Auctions a custom painted Hot Toys Batmobile.  The size of the box was 37 inches x 14 inches x 27 inches.  After I won, I was concerned that I would be receiving a huge shipping charge.  I also bid and won a second item which was about 20x20x4 inches.  To my surprise, the shipping charge was only about $57 via Federal Express.  The total value of the 2 items was about $1000.  I received the items in 3 days.

On 7/24/2023 at 7:53 AM, Robot Man said:

I have my family set up to liquidate my collection easily after I am gone.

I just don’t think I would ever be able to do it. I have spent my whole life on the hunt and pursuit. So many wonderful memories. Luckily, I don’t need the money. I sell off a little here and there once in a while for helping my family as I have always done and now for other great “experiences”. My collection of comics and other “stuff” still brings we a lot of joy.

One thing I have told them, that if someone shows up with a guide and a stupid sob story, to throw them out…

 

"if someone shows up with a guide and a stupid story, to throw them out ..."  

How very true.!!  I have told my family the same thing.  For Golden Age, the prices listed in Overstreet are just unrealistically low.  My suspect that dealers use the guide to show uninformed sellers looking to sell with the pretense that they are "willing to offer a great price of 70-100% guide.

In the 52nd edition of the Overstreet Guide, page 172, John Verzyl II said "A part of the reason that there are so many Guide nay-sayers is because they do not understand it.  Most people think that this magic book is supposed to tell you the current value of a specific issue, but it is supposed to tell you the LOWEST possible value of said issue".  

Huh??  Does Verzyl mean the dealer buy price?  Anyway, at the 2022 San Diego Comic Con, I attended an Overstreet Access Presentation.  During Q&A, I asked JC Vaughn about Verzyl's comments in the Guide.  JC was adamant that the statement was incorrect.  That the Overstreet Prices are accurate and do not reflect the lowest possible value.  I find this to be an odd statement.  If you look at page 172 of the newest Guide (#53), there is a list of Key Sales from 2022-2023 for Golden Age Sales.  Almost everyone of these 44 books sold for well above 2023 Guide.   The 44 books sold include many books which I do not view as Key comics such as Superman #4 and #7 as well as Action Comics #33.  Those sold for 5.3x, 1.95x and 1.94 of Guide respectively.  How can a Guide claim to be accurate when its own data  shows that it is not?  There was no way that I would sign up for Overstreet Access.  Why would I want a service that summarizes information which under values my books?  Especially, if I decide to insure the books or use the values for Estate Planning???

On 6/24/2023 at 7:48 PM, tth2 said:

Maybe the demise of sky high prices has been greatly exaggerated.  Are bidders put off by a live floor auction, preferring a robot auctioneer instead?

Large Feature Comic (Series I) #4 Church CGC NM- 9.2 OW-W ... $10,200

Plastic Man #41 CGC NM 9.4 OW-W ... $7,200

Superman #63 CGC NM+ 9.6 W ... $16,200

Journey Into Mystery #108 CGC NM+ 9.6 W ... $11,100

 

The Superman #63 and the Promise Superman #68 (sold for $26.4K) are both 9.6.  They are extremely rare.  I would argue that of all the Superman's being offered in the June auction, these two were the rarest. Both were printed in the early 50's when comics had lost their popularity.  Also, in the Auction was a Superman #101 (1955) which sold for a record $6K (previous high was $1800 in 2018).  Collectors are starting to realize that these early to mid 50's Superman's in 9.4 and up, only rarely come up for sale.  If you want them, you need to pay the big bucks.

On 6/23/2023 at 11:13 PM, Mmehdy said:

It is of course a very different animal...you are dealing with one of kind...FF painting that sold for 6 million is a prime example in the very same auction....great piece and very unlikely to come to the market again and will probably be ended up in a museum like all them, donated for tax purposes. Again, lets not kick the Promise collection into the reject pile....of course we would need a dramatic turn around.....lets talk about this 5 years from now...like fine wine give it some breathing time...BUT if we go into a deep recession...and  IF those instant crypto rich kids dump the overbidded promise collection GA books  they bought on the market all at once......God help us all...

Despite the huge drops that we saw on the Promise books, the prices realized yesterday were, for the most part, higher than what was the market value pre-Promise in June 2021.  Things are just trending back to "normal".

On 6/22/2023 at 2:42 PM, adamstrange said:

When even the classic covers tank, it's time to put on the parachute.

As a high grade Action Comics collector I was following today's auction very closely.  The four Promise Collection Action Comics were the ones that appeared in the first Promise auction on June 2021.  That auction was where we saw some real crazy prices.  Subsequent Heritage auctions saw excessive prices but not as insane as the first.  With that said, despite the seller taking a huge bath, the prices. realized for the four Actions sold today were still high compared to the expected market values just prior to the first Promise auction.