CDNComix

On 10/18/2021 at 3:54 PM, APDallas said:

Who remembers this and did they do anymore? 

There was only one issue. But the same publisher (Landgraphics) produced a title called Starfighters #1 a few months before. Has a Neal Adams cover and inking:

https://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=450021

Visages Portfolio

Published by: Everyman Studios; Contributors: Darrell Anderson; Arnie Romero; Date: 1978; Price: ncp; Page Count: holder, signed and numbered; 20 single sided prints; consecutively numbered on back;
Size: digest; folded holder (6.25 x 8.75); prints (5.5 x 8.5); Kennedy #: 2139; Print information: one printing; 80 signed and numbered copies;

Visages is more of sci-fi art portfolio (1978 being the golden age of such things) than an underground. Kennedy probably cited in his guide because of those who were involved rather than content reasons – Everyman Studios. As explained at the top of the inner part of the holder, Visages is a retrospective art portfolio by Darrel Anderson that includes:

1. 10 black white prints (#1-10) from his early work (1971) that have a definite Bode influence;
2. 4 colour prints (#11-14) produced via standard four colour process offset;
3. 6 colour prints (#15-20) produced via four colour with an additional 3 colour secondary print.

I usually pare down contributor credits when it involves editing, poetry, prose and other non-art/comic content. This is the first time that have added someone (Arnie Romero) whose contributions are not cited within the publication or by the Kennedy guide. The four process colour plus three prints are gorgeous and the printer (Arnie) deserves credit. 
 

Those Loveable Peace-Nuts

Published by: Handicap Publications; Contributors: William Stout; Tom Dunphy (aka General Waste More Land); Calypso Joe  (aka General Hershey Bar; William "Bill" Matons); Date: 1967; Price: 50 cents; Page Count: 28 pages;

Size: digest; (5.5 x 8.5); Kennedy #: 2004; Print information: unknown;

William Matons and Tom Dunphy were participants in something they called "guerrilla street theater" as a “in character” series of protests to the Vietnam war in the mid-60s. Those Loveable Peace-Nuts was written to be a comic representation of their live performances that featured their satirical characters of General Waste More Land and General Hershey Bar.

According to William Stout, he illustrated TLPN over two weekends over his first summer break while attending the California Institute of the Arts.
 

Critter Papers

Published by: self-published; Contributor: Jerry Collins; Date: 1979; Price: ncp; Page Count: 22 pages; single sided
Size: magazine; (8.5 x 11.0); Kennedy #: 559; Print information: unknown;

An “early” anthropomorphic alternative comic fanzine that has some adult content (“bare breasted” cartoon characters). I guess it is that specific content that swayed Kennedy to list it as an underground, rather than as a ground level that are listed in another section at the back of guide, just like Cerebus the Aardvark was.

A couple of years later, Jerry Collins would team up with Tim Fay to produce about a half a dozen other Kennedy listed ani-alternatives. All of them on the rare side, including Cervine Follies #1 and 2, posted on page 12 of this thread.
 

Every Day Has its Dog.

Published by: Raw Books; Contributor: Art Spiegelman; Date: 1979; Price: ncp; Page Count: 8 pages;

Size: mini; (4.25 x 6.0); Kennedy #: 683; Print information: one printing; number copies unknown;

One of about eight mail books (and many more peripherals) published by Raw Books within the first year of its founding. Refer to page nine of this thread to access the other Spiegelman effort “Work and Turn”.

Laughing Man Productions Mail Set
Published by: Laughing Man Productions; self-published; Contributors: Mark Fisher; Wylie Fisher; Date: 1983; Price: ncp;

Multi-publication set:

1) card board mailing envelope; 9.5 x 15.25;
2) The Floating Mummy; 8 pages; 6.5 x 8.5;
3) Hi-Tech Fever; 12 pages; 7.0 x 8.5 ;
4) Spencer’s Dilemma ; 8 pages; 7.0 x 8.75;
5) TV Guise ; 8 pages ; 6.75 x 8.5 ;
6) The Cavemen Discover Food; 8 pages; 7.0 x 8.75;
7) Dr. Otto Blotz’s; one side sheet; 7.5 x 8.75;

Kennedy #: published post guide; Print information: one printing; 20 copies; all signed, except Cavemen and mailer; all stickered, except Caveman;

Another wonderful example of a “handmade” publication from one of my favourite “newavers” – Mark Fisher. This time Mark brings his young son Wylie on aboard to share the fun with his Caveman story.
 

On 9/6/2021 at 1:47 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Do you know if that's the original dialogue from the comic?

No, I do not. But I would guess that it is original to the older comic because it not specific to the band, the 80s or punk. Looks to me as if the dialogue could be from an older era comic story.

A Canadian punk band Called the "Gentlemen of Horror" repurposed what looks to be either golden/silver age comic panel for an early 80s EP. Forty years later, the band members do not recall the source of their "homage" that is labelled "Baby Teeth" at the side of the single panel - probably the person who repurposed it in the 80s rather than the original creator.

http://citizenfreak.com/titles/280535-gentlemen-of-horror-5-song-45-sterling-death-ep-alien-cover

I am going to ask in the golden forum also, but can anyone identify the source of the panel - the originating comic?

A Canadian punk band Called the "Gentlemen of Horror" repurposed what looks to be either golden/silver age comic panel for an early 80s EP. Forty years later, the band members do not recall the source of their "homage" that is labelled "Baby Teeth" at the side of the single panel - probably the person who repurposed it in the 80s rather than the original creator.

http://citizenfreak.com/titles/280535-gentlemen-of-horror-5-song-45-sterling-death-ep-alien-cover

I am going to ask in the silver forum also, but can anyone identify the source of the panel - the originating comic?

Amra-Arma Meets The Lurker Within!

Published by: self-published; Contributors: Jeff Karl ; Kurt Bischoff; Jan Stan; Sidney A. Seidenberg; Stanley Marsh; William Hibbard; Mort Garson; J.B; Date: 1975; Price: band giveaway; Page Count: 36 pages;

Size: comic; (6.75 x 8.75); Kennedy #: 68; Print information: one printing; number of copies unknown;

Underground collections are in some ways like bar inventories. Most contents will be considered by many to be “house” caliber or even worse “bottom of the barrel gut rot”.

Amra-Arma is definitely “top shelf” on many levels. All colour, use of high grade production materials (acid free, heavy stock, high gloss cover and marble textured interior stock). Simply delightful.

Storybored

Published by: Famous Dog Productions; self-published; Contributor: David Miller; Date: 1981; Price: 75 cents; Page Count: 8 pages;
Size: magazine; (7.5 x 10.0); Kennedy #: 1896; Print information: one printing; 100 copies; some signed;

This is the first time that I have posted two books, back-to-back with consecutive Kennedy numbers. Getting lazy!

Storybored surprised me on a few levels because my expectation would have been another “Comix World” type mini, since David Miller has several of those under his belt. It is magazine sized, a true comic with underground content. I am glad that David Miller decided to enter a new frontier with this one.

Please note a deviation from Kennedy: my copy is not signed (there is a box, lower right corner of front cover) as opposed to the guide’s citation of signed copies.
 

Here's one anyone can do at home - staples.

The staples on my copy fold together in a straight manner and are a shiny silver. I have place a ruler as a placement reference, although it could be (see above) that copies were stapled by hand or at different times since the various copies of the "first edition" on Heritage do not share the same position (relative to the other edges of the book or the position between the 2 staples).

And if that is correct (ashcans were not stapled in same the way) then the actual staples themselves beyond their placement might be different physically from book to book. Again, we need participation from other owners to be able to get a "census" of books and learn how they are similar and different.

On 8/19/2021 at 10:39 AM, CDNComix said:

My pre-press friend just replied and the process is called the Pronto Plate which was around in the 60s as a commercial process - a means to print small litho runs, quick and dirty. In modern age, it has been all but phased out but is still taught as a specialist technique starting from scratch (instead of using an out of the box kit from a manufacturer like Kodak):

There's a correction with this.

"Pronto Plates" were developed in the early 90s and used polymer plates. It is the exact same process: "gum arabic transfer" as the "paper plate" lithography my friend alluded to that would have been in use in the 60s. So it is not correct to term "paper plate lithography" as "Pronto plate lithography" which is a very similar, improved process that was developed much decades later.

Here's an interesting thing, "paper plates" can be prepared directly from a photocopy, when it is then it is called "Xerox Lithography". This supports the rumour that Warren used an early photocopier to print the ashcan. Close. They might have have used photocopies to prepare the litho paper plates.

I had a fine toothed comb look look at my copy under magnification and noticed something "unique" on pages #7-12. All of art and text on these pages are double imaged by a lighter shadow. Sometimes the shadow is above the real print and sometimes below. The odd thing is that the pages that make the other half of a 2 page sheet side (#13-18) later in the collated book are not double imaged. If the double image was caused by a press setting, then I would have thought both pages that make up a cut sheet would be affected. For example page 7 is physically attached to page 18 and would have been printed at the same time, since they are physically side-by-side.

Again I am not qualified and very much over my head without a printing background, but I think that there is a chance that these distinctive shadows were created during the pre-press phase of production (from paste-up art; to film; to plate - or whatever the process was). If that's the case (it may not be) then all real copies should have the shadowing.

The expectation for the blue staple unauthorized edition would be that there would not be the same shadowing (in the same way on the same pages at least), since it was a reset and used another starting point/process to achieve a finer print.

The expectation for "bootleg/fake" copies of the ashcan that used an original ashcan and reproduced it directly (unlike the blue staple edition, these crooks would no access to the Warren pre-press material) and would require a direct photocopy/scan/or something else. I doubt that the double image/shadow could be picked-up and reproduced exactly as shown in my images - it might appear as a uniform solid instead.

On 8/19/2021 at 4:20 PM, wombat said:

Can we do the same magnification of the other copies? It seems like this could be smoking gun if only copies we were sure of were legit look like this and none of the others do. 

Here are some random, known photocopied comics from my collection - ranging from the early 70s to early 80s. As you can see there is quite a range of characteristics - some use halftones (the first image) and those that do not (last 4 images) the print appears to be granular (use of solid toner vs liquid ink). Images #1 and #3 have directional streaks/scratches on top of the dark print (dirty platen).

I will try to identify some specific points on my copy that have something unique about them other than "it's dark print" . I will post these later in the week so that others can go to the specific area and compare 9if anyone is game).

My pre-press friend just replied and the process is called the Pronto Plate which was around in the 60s as a commercial process - a means to print small litho runs, quick and dirty. In modern age, it has been all but phased out but is still taught as a specialist technique starting from scratch (instead of using an out of the box kit from a manufacturer like Kodak):

https://printscholars.org/alternative-lithography-pronto-plates-and-gum-arabic-transfer/

On 8/18/2021 at 1:22 AM, TIA23 said:

Does Dirty Girdies Comix #1 1969 really excist? i dont find any info, thx for the help !

Yes, it does exist with at least one copy residing within a major archived underground collection held by a US university:

"Dirty Girdies Comix [no.1] [(Dave Goforth)], 1969 

Scope and Contents

Rippee, Larry (="Virgil Lee"); Pon, Byron; Dave

General Note

In a plastic sleeve with Dirty Girdies Comix no.2"

All four issues of DG have a stated print run of 1,000 copies, but the first two issues are definitely rarer. Issue #2, shows up every "blue moon", but #1 appears on the "wants" list of many collectors, even those who have been collecting since the early days. I have reached out the Rippee and hopefully he will respond with some answers and scans.
 

I bought a cheap Wi-Fi "microscope" and looked at the print of the ashcan under magnification. The goal was to determine if the ashcan was printed using litho or some other reproduction process like an early photocopy. See my very first images, text mainly (easy reference), but the "wavy roof lines" are also there.

The first thing that stands out is that ashcan is line process that uses no screens or halftones (little black dots that when their size and densities varies different shades of blackness can be achieved). No halftones means the print is either black or white and nothing in between. An unusual choice for a publisher to produce a commercial book, but this fits the "lack of time to make" story.

I am not qualified to comment on whether something is litho or some other obscure process that does not use halftones like an early photocopy, collotype, etc. So I sent the images to someone who worked in the pre-press department of one of Canada's national security printing companies (currency, stamps, passports, stock certificates). He started back in the early 70s and  retired around 2010. He has decades of experience with specialized printing techniques that most commercial printers do not. He is what he had to say:

"Weird but I’ve seen it before.

Seems like a cheap paper litho plate used for short runs on small presses. Horribly blurry and smeared kinda stuff. Circa 1970s ? I used to get stuff less than 250 pieces. The plates self destructed pretty fast.

Not the DIY type. . There’s a method I have heard of that does short run comics and art out of England.

Might have been Kodak. I’ll have to look into it."

It is litho, possibly a known process from Kodak that used paper printing plates for very short runs around the time of ashcan. Hopefully, my pre-press friend will be able to specifically re-identify the process they had used all those years ago and give it a name - like Kodak Process Plates XCX (developed for use by publishers who have a small run, do not care about print quality, are in a rush and want to confuse collectors decades later).

This fits "the legend" of the "night of the ashcan" perfectly. The walk away for us is that is very distinctive process (print wise) and should not prevent (but rather assist) someone or a certifying company from assessing a copy.

Storybook  Comics

Published by: self published; Contributors: Joe Zabel; Bud Perkins; Bill Loeb; Date: 1981; Price: ncp; Page Count: 32 pages;
Size: digest; (5.5 x 8.5); Kennedy #: 1895; Print information: one printing; number of copies unknown;

I love bronze age, horror/Sci-Fi/fantasy comics zines as much as true underground comix pubs. I would shovel them all day long into my comic boxes without ever tiring of them.

Storybook Comics (imaginative name) contains three stories from a trio of collaborators. Zabel and Loeb had paired-up a year earlier for another Kennedy listed book, Agent Gedon. Bud Perkins appears on page 5 on this thread in a similar horror digest Grue-Toons.

Until about 2 months ago, I did not even know what SBC looked like until it was spotted sitting a top of a couple other comics as part a large underground lot. Part of the reason is that its harder to identify something that does not a cover title, but mainly because its seems to be on the rarer side like most of the Kennedy listed horror/Sci-Fi comic zines.

BTW - the same person who pointed out the lot that had the example that was my first sighting, also messaged that there a copy for sale in Europe about a month later. Thanks V.

On 8/15/2021 at 6:42 PM, oakman29 said:

That might put some credibility to the story that Warren wanted to push the first prints out quickly to establish the copyright. Also for the 2nd prints that they were indeed printed at the Warren facility by a employee as was  presumed. 

Yes, for sure. It makes sense.

That's another "reward" for getting to the bottom of this (determining what a real copy should look like/measure), besides feeling good about authenticity. If there were some rock solid final answers/conclusions like "staple position of the firsts always varies and/or the blue staple edition does not vary", then we could guess how it was made and under what circumstances, like "it was a rush job and a group of us stapled copies together at the last minute".

I hoping for an easy tell with this, but of course not! I am just dicking around for now and will try to ferret out some "for sures" with this book. Even if it is: "for sure" no 2 copies are alike. 

I was playing around and marking off the staple positions on the various examples of the Eerie ashcan ("first" printings) on HA. Refer to the 4 examples in top row. I also marked the certified edition due auction this month next to the Bill Pearson's copy on the bottom row. Surpisingly there is no consistant postioning between the copies (top staple placement, bottom staple placement or position between the staples).

Oddly the certified copy (bottom left) seems to match an equally too good to be true (condition) book that sold on HA last year in 2020 (top right).

If these copies are real representatives, then we are looking at hand stapled book.

I did not make an equally lousy comparasion of the blue staple "second" printing, but from my eye, the images of the examples I have on file seem to have a consistant position.

On 8/11/2021 at 12:48 AM, wpbooks01 said:

Kirby Guide? Please enlighten me/us?

Opps. "Kirch" Guide, not "Kirby" as first stated.

On 8/11/2021 at 12:48 AM, wpbooks01 said:

Kirby Guide? Please enlighten me/us?

Look it up in the FUGG 

The "Kirch Guide" was recently bought up by someone on my thread. I could be the first underground guide/checklist and probably was used by Kennedy as one the starting sources for development of his guide. Rather than reposting the same info (select the box with greyed out arrow in upper right):

On 8/10/2021 at 2:35 PM, TIA23 said:

I will look were i can buy those "Kennedy" and "Illustrated Checklist" guide

I feel that I am hard on brother Fogel. So please be aware that a new edition will be coming out shortly (year or two is the rumour). I would recommend waiting to purchase it, rather than a 2015/2016.