Cool Ghoul

I've heard of charitable grading, but could this really be an example of it?

This pic is from an eBay listing in 2021 when this book skyrocketed. 

Always thought it looked suspicious at the time.

On 4/7/2023 at 8:20 AM, MR. Pontoon said:

Pam Grier!

I dunno. I'm seeing some spine stresses and a slight stacking curl. Is that a bit of scuffing in the colophon? It also looks like there's still some dirt, soiling or stains, but maybe that's just an artifact from the photo or my monitor. If I'm not seeing things, *maybe* a 7.5 or 8.0? If I am seeing things, probably a bit higher. What do the previous grader's notes say?

Great book in any case!

Original Grader Notes.  We think we got the stain out.  Also, this is the book prior to be C&P that got the 7.0.

chip out left top of back cover
crease left bottom of back cover
crease left top of front cover breaks color
small, very light, multiple stain right center of front cover

Below are pictures of the book before the C&P that got a 7.0 White Page grade.

This book was originally graded a 7.0 White Pages.  I had it cracked and sent to a 3rd party presser.  The pictures are of the C&P version that is now at CGC for grading. 

Welcoming thoughts of what grade bump -- if any -- the new submission might get.  This is, unfortunately, a hard book to find in high grade so it looks like this will have to serve for my personal collection.

Received back from CGC.  Commenters were fairly close.  Happy with the white pages, but I'm still seeing pressable defects.  Or maybe the spine indents can't be smoothed any more.  Thoughts?

I plan to have this book cleaned and pressed (probably by CCS). Any idea what kind of grade I can expect? I’m guessing a lot will have to do with how much the press can improve. All thoughts are welcome.

I use the $ I make on selling to buy, and I always buy and sell around the same time.  So market conditions offset each other.

I overpaid for WBN 32 and TOD 10 in 2021, but also got way more for my TMNT collection than I will ever get now.

I view it as funding my hobby in obtaining books I do want by selling those I'm ok to part with.

That said, I've been moving more modern books lately because I believe that with all the still-unsubmitted modern books in people's collections, there's a greater risk of market saturation in the future than there is with early Bronze, Silver and Golden Age books.

Mike, I appreciate the email from CGC regarding the state of the facility and collectibles, but more importantly, can we get a notification that all staff/employees are safe?  Lots of concern for everyone down there. 

Thanks.

I can only relate to my situation, but I sent 3 separate submissions to CCS last year:

Modern - Sent 4/22/2021

Economy - Sent 4/22/2021

Economy - Sent 5/10/21

They sat in CCS forever (up until early last week).  Then they moved to SFG at CGC.  My modern was only there a week and has since shipped.  My economy from 5/10/2021 is in grading/encapsulating/imaging.  My other Economy submission is waiting on 1 book to finish being pressed.

From my own personal experiences, which also includes other submissions that were completed in 2021, CGC does seem to move much faster on completing CCS submissions.

I wouldn't expect CGC Customer Service to confirm this, because they're likely hesitant to create false expectations. 

In addition, there are probably other examples where this isn't the case.

Per Darren Rovell via Twitter:

Coin, cards & comic book grader @CGCComics announces $3K hiring bonuses in its Florida offices. 

CEO Steve Eichenbaum: “We continue to forecast significant growth in our business, especially as people flock to the stability of collectibles amid uncertain economic times.”

Thoughts if this will impact TATs?

On 5/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Droid81 said:

Who else is going to lose their premium or elite $150 credit?  It just kind of sucks... cause I tried to use it.  I sent my order in at the same time I renewed my membership thinking, surely this order will be processed within a full calendar year.  What will happen if I don't renew?  If my membership expires before my order is processed, will they still honor it, or will I need to re-up again just to get the one order of books back?

Should I overnight some fast tracks just to use my credit?  Can I fast track a reholder?

You will not lose your $150 credit as long as you submitted books during the period your membership was in effect.  I asked CGC the same question, and they indicated it is based on the submission date, not when your membership expires.  So, you might not get books back for another 6 months or longer, but as long as the packing slip was created during your membership period -- and you haven't used the $150 credit yet -- they will apply it to grading fees (but not re-holder, CCS, or shipping fees).

You can also check your packing slips for the price you will pay for the submissions (not what the current rates are).  That is available under the Submission Tracking page - "View my packing slips" link.  

_{This isn't rocket science. As long as the following equation holds true:} 

_{Final Selling Value of a CGC slabbed book > Grading + shipping + selling costs, then people aren't likely to slow their mass submissions anytime soon, even if the net profit is minimal.}

_{CGC could always raise their rates on modern tier books (where the bulk of the mass submissions come from).  PSA did this to raise their grading cost/piece, which forced collectors to be more judicious in their submissions.}

_{An option I would like to see is for CGC to add another grading tier, from post 1975 to maybe early 1990s, when comics stopped using newsprint.  That would leave the bulk of the modern books (post 2000) in a single grading tier.}

_{I also have to believe it's easier to train new graders to grade books published in the last 20 years vs bronze age comics from the late 1970s.}

_{That said, I'm resigned to settling back and watching the often uneven and mostly glacially-paced TATs continue.}

On 2/1/2022 at 11:20 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

M most of your post has been talked about and answered more than covid concerns since 3/2020.

TaT's start the day your package was signed and delivered to CGC NOT the day it showed up in your account.  Sometimes books are graded much faster than stated TaT and vice versa.  

Here's your only 3 solutions that each of us have right now.

#1 Wait longer

#2. Stop submitting 

#3 Apply for a job at CGC and move to FL to help out

 

This is the best summarization of CGC submissions I've seen. And it's 100% on the money.

On 2/15/2021, I sent in a package of comics that fell into multiple tiers:

• CCS Value, pressed and graded
• CCS modern, pressed and graded
• CCS magazine, pressed and graded
• CGC modern graded 

To date, I received all but the CCS Value returned to me (yes, it's going to take over a year).  I received the modern, non-CCS submission first (8/2021), and then Magazine submission with CCS press (10/21).  I received the modern submission with CCS press at end of 11/2021.  There was absolutely no alignment with posted TAT times and none of the CGC reps could accurately provide when my submission would arrive.  And as much as I would like to have all of the submission turnarounds done more accurately and quickly, I have decided to temper my expectations.

And why should I not be upset?  Well, unless someone has a better alternative, I don't know anywhere else where I can reach into my closet, grab a Thor 337 newsstand that I purchased for maybe $3 when it first came out, have CCS & CCG press and grade it as a 9.8 (for a marginal fee), and sell it for $1,400.

That service paid for my family room furniture.  

Is CGC perfect or even close?  Absolutely not. Not anywhere near. But I thought I'd share my story for some perspective. 

For the most part, CGC is making us money, and I, for one, have decided to accept what I get, when I get it, and be thankful.

But to each his own, I guess.

Peace be to all.

As of 1/20/2021, If you're sending in Economy Submissions to CCS/CCG, you're now looking at 399 business days (217 days pressing + 182 days grading). When you factor in shipping time back to you, you can expect your books sometime in Q3 of 2023.  

This timeframe practically ensures two things:

1. People will still have a heavy financial stake in comic collecting for at least 2 more years.
2. There will be a glut of newly-graded books, many of which were previously raw, that will slowly trickle onto the market.

Who knows how this will affect future value based on supply and demand.  But with these grading delays, forecasting book values out nearly 2 years will be more a "roll of the dice" than ever before.

This book was graded 9.0 in 2005 without a clean and press.  Scheduled with CCS/GCC for clean and press.  Any thoughts as to whether this book might get a grade bump or page quality improvement or rather I likely only paid for same grade but with a marginally better looking book? 

For reference: CGC notes indicate: "spine stress lines".

All opinions welcome. Thanks.

I'm not surprised CGC did this, as many companies are raising their prices across the board (utilities, grocery, auto, restaurants, etc.). 

I think CGC is basically just riding the inflationary wave at the moment. 

Sooner or later, however, people may want to re-evaluate whether or not it's worth submitting 100s of modern comics when -- after grading and selling costs are factored in -- there's very little profit left for the end customer.

On 10/26/2021 at 10:13 AM, grendelbo said:

Need pics of the back cover to give a grade estimate.

I know.  That was my mistake not to take a pic of the back cover before posting this.

On 10/25/2021 at 11:53 PM, ronvogel said:

A bit tough from a single photo, and the photo has a lot of jpg artifacts which also make it difficult to analyze. Bottom left corner looks to have a small tear, and there's something along the bottom under the "PE" in Superhero that may be a tear or may be nothing... also looks like some chipping along the right edge in the upper black area and another possibly along the top. I also see a possible spine ding about halfway. Presents very well overall, but I'm not sure what's there that a press would help.

Good eye. You are correct on the following:

1) Bottom left corner has small tear. 2) There's a color break (not a tear) between the P & E.  3) Small chip on upper right edge of book. 4) very small spine ding on left, adjacent to the fire.

There is no chipping on top of book -- that is red ink over-bleed on top of cover.  The black cover is hard to scan properly to show all detail.

I agree.  Not sure a press is going to help except to make the current condition/page quality present a a minimal amount better.

This book is currently sent in to CCS for press and clean and then grading at CGC. 

It was originally graded in 2005 by CGC, without a press, at 9.0 Off-White pages.

Would be curious to see predictions on final grade and page quality after press/clean. 

I'm not sure that other than a slightly cleaner front cover there will be much of a grade/page quality difference.   

The top book shown below is from my personal collection.  It has not been clean and pressed, and hearing the horror stories about trying to press this book, I intend to leave it as is. 

It is nicely centered but is graded with Off-White Pages.  The second book shown is one I am considering replacing it with.  This book also is nicely centered but contains clean White pages. 

My question for the collecting community is how much more of a premium (in terms of $) do you think there is for the MS 5 White Page book vs the Off-White one? I'm sure opinions will vary, but I would appreciate any feedback before considering upgrading to the White page copy.  Thanks in advance. 

On 9/14/2021 at 11:22 AM, wombat said:

That is assuming that don't have that baked in already. When they estimate TATs they may already be assuming this. Now are they? I have no idea. 

Point taken. They very well could be baking this in. But you gotta admit, for the most part TATs are getting longer, not shorter, and I don't see that trend subsiding anytime soon.

On 9/14/2021 at 10:03 AM, wombat said:

Please explain how them stopping new submissions would get my book done faster that they already have. 

You do realize that Express, Walkthrough, and Fast Track will jump ahead of many books already in CGCs queue, right?  Stopping submissions would allow CGC to reallocate resources to current inventory and also curtail line-jumping, premium $ tiers.

That said, CGC is not going to halt submissions as their current inventory represents a guaranteed revenue stream that they can use for forecasting and budgeting.  It might be different if customers could cancel their in-house orders as often will happen in other industries with supply chain issues. 

Some of us have heard anecdotal -- but not substantiated -- opinions of certain books being more stringently graded by CGC than others.

With that in mind, I'm starting to see several copies of Werewolf by Night #32 on auction sites (mostly eBay) that look to me to be noticeably OVER-graded. 

I own other key Bronze Age Books (MS #5,TOD #10) that don't seem to be graded as forgivingly as this book (which I also own in a 9.0). 

Perhaps this is only my view, but I'd be curious as to what other collectors who are more familiar with CGC grading have to say.

I definitely understand the occasional oversight by CGC, but below are 3 examples of current books on auction with suspect grading IMHO.  What say you?