Nathan81

3 hours ago, H0RR0RSH0W said:

No certainly not. But let me put it this way : I think your thinking may be wrong in regards to new comics in that it seems you are looking at every comic purchase as an investment. If all it took was money to invest in comics anyone could do it right? It is the understanding that comes from being involved in comics as a hobby and being able to decide for yourself from the knowledge you gain that may enable a person to make a profit from their collecting. So as far as valuable goes I do not personally know what will be worth a lot 50 years from now. Certainly most of what you buy will be worth something, but I do believe most if not all of what the average Joe comic collector is able to come across will not be worth much of anything , no.

As you mentioned in your first post your collection from 25 years ago has not seen a significant increase in value. You would not be the first to have this realization . So then why would the next 25 years or even the next suddenly cause these books value to exponentiate? There has to be a cause and effect. 

There is a mentality out there that sort of says "hey I've got old comics- I must be rich". In order to enjoy collecting one should avoid this trap.

 I admit I know nothing about these books other than Saga 1 is hot and I would hold onto that for the long haul if I were you.

It depends on the books really. It is not a general equation that you can just look at and sum it all up. For moderns the 9.8 - 9.6 grade point is really the sweet spot .

We could look at a book like ASM #300 over the last couple of years as an example. Recently 9.8 have seen well over $1000 dollars for a sales. This having been reached from the high 3 figures to the low $1000's about a year ago . Now to look at 9.6s's of the same book the prices went from around $350 to around $800 over the last year.So it is for the most part the same . Just a matter of how you want to spend the money. This has actually been a topic discussed on the boards and is itself a ratherbroad discussion. I personally look at the 9.8 as  a little more risky. 

I don’t think every book has potential value. But if someone has a good eye for books with good art and storytelling, then I’d think those have potential. 

The next 25 years could possibly increase value of those 90’s comics in the same way the second 25 years increased the value of 60’s books, albeit to a much lesser degree.

Why would 9.8 be more risky? Because people might come to their senses and realize there is only a minuscule difference between 9.8 and 9.6 and not want to pay almost double in some cases?

I’m thinking the real reason it would be risky is because if the book drops a grade to 9.6, then a lot of money is lost, whereas 9.6 is closer to 9.4 and so on.

5 hours ago, H0RR0RSH0W said:

I just see no potential for new books. Someone is always left holding the bag with the rampant speculation that is going on. Although "the older the better" is not always true either. New comics are really a different breed than their fore goers but I think that is a different conversation. The money in new comics does not seem to be in quality but quantity. What I mean by that is that comics have more widespread interest now ( even in the properties themselves) and as a side-effect a very large populace of readers.

For an "investment" try to buy the best you can afford, but none the less follow the golden rule of buy what you love and love what you buy. It may be you left holding those books someday and it not so pleasant to be forced to hold onto books you dislike.

Myself, I really enjoy buying new books for my reading part of the hobby I enjoy. So in regards to that I will use myself as the example: You will never find me buying a new book for 3 figures although I do indeed spend 3 figures in a year on books to read.If that makes sense.

 

So even in 50 years, you don’t think current books will be valuable? What about books like Y: The Last Man or Saga? I can’t believe that nothing will be valuable. 

You mentioned “buy the best you can afford.” So if I wanted to spend $1000, would I be better off buying one 9.8 book or two 9.6 books (from what I’ve seen a 9.8 seems to be double the value of a 9.6)? Or something older in lower grade?

I recently purchased a slabbed Saga 1 first print. Would it be advisable to resell it now, wait and see if the value increases, or hold onto it for the long haul?

I was thinking about a Next Men 21, or Usagi Yojimbo first appearance or first fantagraphics issue. Would those be good or should I just focus on old DC or Marvel?

53 minutes ago, Yoshi said:

You know, Mercury Man isn't wrong. But, I'll toss in my two cents.

These days comics come out with 3, 5, 20 damn covers an issue. The ultra rare, hard-to-get-your-hands-on, you'll never find it in the wild covers I think can be a solid investment. I could talk about this point more, but that's the quick and dirty version. 

The other thing I might suggest is Blank Covers. I might be biased here because I love these damn things, but hear me out. Black covers allow for artists to create a unique image on them. These can be a solid investment and, for me at least, has made comic book collecting fun again. Again, I could talk about this forever, but this is just the quick and dirty thoughts.

So you take the blank covers to a convention to see if the artist will do a quick sketch on it?

1 hour ago, Mercury Man said:

You are probably going to get a mix of responses, but from an investment standpoint, new comic books are for the most part, going to let you down.  You will hear stories from people about how they flipped books for hundreds of dollars, and how some own an ultra rare variant that nobody has ever seen on the market, and how it can be done,  but  that is just speculators selling to speculators.   Eventually somebody gets left holding the bag, and that will thin out the hobby like it did in the early 90's.   The dollar boxes are filled with 'Investment' books from 20-30 years ago.  Filled to the tune of millions.  Buy new comics because you like the character, artwork or stories.  If for some reason what you have goes up in value, that's a bonus.  Quality over Quantity is always the smart collectibles play. 

Thanks Mercury. I think I’ll still buy some new comics, but try to limit that and save money for older books. Older Marvel books seem like a safe choice.

On the other hand there seems to me to be better titles out now than in the past, plus smaller print runs could equal this being a better time to collect new books than the 90’s. Like the stuff image is doing now seems more sophisticated or more tasteful than things from the 90’s.

You’re right about “investment” books. I bought books in the 90’s that were hot at the time, like Gen 13 and Shi, that probably aren’t worth as much now as I paid then. Not that all hot titles will sink in value like those.

From an investment standpoint, is it a good idea to buy new comic books? I've been buying new comics recently, and have wondered if I should just buy old books, and focus on quality over quantity. Although I enjoy speculating that something might become valuable, and the idea of getting something at cover price that might be worth hundreds someday, I don't want to through money away though. Most of my collection is from the first half of the 90's, and if I was to try to sell them, I don't think I could even get cover price back for most of them, and those are 25 years old. Most of the books that I bought as a teenager that are valuable now, I purchased after they already had some value, not new. I used to think that with enough time, everything would become valuable, but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. I was a teenager then and I think I have a better eye now. If I don't buy new comic books, I could miss out on something that becomes valuable. I've bought some sets of more recent books on eBay, and maybe that is the way to go, because the sets are usually less that cover price per book. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

2 hours ago, Mijael.Levy said:

And where's the spine split? I just see slight spine defects and minor corner deffects ...

If you zoom in on the first picture, the spine is open about 1/16” wide and I can see uncolored paper.

1 hour ago, jevlnuts said:

+1. NM is considered 9.0 - 10, more specifically NM- to NM+. Book can still be near mint with minor defects.

I know a NM book can have minor defects, I just wondered if these defects dropped them down to VF.

22 minutes ago, Mijael.Levy said:

Yes they are NM ... NM is not a perfect book .

Btw whats your ebay handle?

I didn’t get them on eBay 

I bought these two books online and wasn’t sure if they would be NM with the corner issues, especially the doctor strange with the split on the spine. I’d appreciate an opinion so I can decide to return them or not. I might have to start going to a LCS so I can make sure I’m happy with the condition , but I like the convenience of shopping online.

7 hours ago, mschmidt said:

When microchamber paper is "full" (eg. unable to absorb any more off-gassing from the comic book), it simply becomes inert - it will never harm the actual comic book.

That's good to hear. I thought I read someone saying the micro paper could cause deterioration to adjacent pages, but I don't know if it was experience or conjecture. 

I just found a very detailed answer to my question on the main cgc website under the following FAQ. Apparently they are currently saying it's not necessary and that the book can last generations without reholdering. It was recommended earlier on but they've made improvements. 

Is it necessary to get my CGC book reholdered every 10 (or 7, or 12, etc.) years?

• No. The CGC holder is designed for long-term preservation and provides superior protection for your books. A properly handled and stored CGC-certified book can last for generations.
  
  The CGC holder is made from high-quality materials and is entirely archival-safe. The inner well that holds books, for example, is comprised of PETG, a plastic that is well known to be archival-safe and extremely clear. This PETG well is placed inside of a durable outer case that is sonically welded to ensure a secure, tamper-evident seal.
  
  Many comic books, particularly vintage ones, naturally release ("off gas") acidic molecules over time. The CGC holder is therefore designed to not have an air-tight seal, which would otherwise trap these acidic molecules. 
  
  For added long-term preservation, CGC inserts MicroChamber® paper into vintage books prior to encapsulation. This MicroChamber paper helps to neutralize the natural acidity of some books by using a specialized, proprietary “zeolite” that was designed to absorb and hold the molecules known to damage archival collections. That is why MicroChamber paper is used by many of the world’s most respected museums and institutions, including the Smithsonian Institution, the Getty Conservation Institute, the Louvre, the British Museum and the Northeast Document Conservation Center. 
  
  When CGC was first established in 2000, we thoroughly researched and implemented the best practices in archival preservation. We took a conservative approach and suggested that customers may wish to consider reholdering their books after approximately seven to ten years so that the MicroChamber paper could be replaced. 
  
  Today, however, we have the benefit of having graded 4.1 million books over a 17-year period. This is an incredibly large sample size that represents books of all eras, paper types, paper qualities, storage conditions and grades. CGC and its customers now have ample evidence that demonstrates it is not necessary to have your CGC books reholdered simply to replace the MicroChamber paper. CGC’s archival-safe holder, with its combination of features that includes air permeability, MicroChamber paper and a secure, sonic seal, has been shown to provide superior long-term protection for the millions of books that have been encapsulated by CGC. 
  
  We have never seen a properly stored CGC-certified comic book that needed to be reholdered for archival reasons. Nonetheless, there are still a number of benefits to utilizing CGC’s reholder service, including the crystal-clear display, enhanced aesthetic and durable construction of CGC’s new holder.  
  
  It is important to remember that proper storage is essential to preserving your books, and collectors should take steps to minimize exposure to heat, humidity, vibration and light. CGC recommends that CGC-certified books be stored in a dark, dry, cool, temperature-controlled location.
  
  CGC's holders have withstood the test of time and over the last 17 years have been shown to provide outstanding long-term protection and preservation. No other comic book grading services can make that claim.
  
  MicroChamber® is a registered trademark of Conservation Resources International, Inc.

May main concern was not if the micro paper stops protecting, but if it will actually cause damage if left in too long.

I wonder if someone could request that the micro paper isn't used when submitting books.

Does the acid in paper need oxygen to  turn paper yellow? If so, it seems like it  wouldn't yellow much in a slab anyway.

I agree it would be a good idea not to have books slabbed until selling.

Is it recommended that comic books in cgc cases are sent in every so often to have them reslabbed (reholdering) due to the micro chamber paper needing replacement? I saw one person here say that but didn't know if it was necessary or not. 

1 minute ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Yes, you never mentioned you had the option of getting your money back. Go get your money back. Now !!!!

I had been going back and forth with the seller trying to come up with a solution and she wasn't communicating well. I opened a case with eBay resolution center and now she's issued a refund, including original and return shipping costs. I just have to ship the books back. Thanks for helping me to not doubt my decision to return the books.

32 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Here's my take on your question. In order to make it worth your while, financially, to ship/press/submit/ship this book it would have to get at least a 9.6 . If it gets a 9.4 you are close to even, 9.2 or less and you lose money. Now, that crease looks awfully big and deep, even if the rest of the book is perfect I'm not sure you will get a 9.6. Maybe but most likely not. If the press is not thorough and some of those other flaws remain, well you just experienced a complete waste of time and money. Your call but I would not submit.

Thanks for your response Bob. Won't buyers always pay a premium for an encapsulated and graded copy, even if it's not 9.8? I purchased it as a long term investment, like decades unless I need the money, so if the value continues to go up in the future, I would think it could be worth pressing prior to grading. I was actually debating whether or not to return this for a refund to eBay seller. Unfortunately if I want to return it I'll have to send back issues 2-12 also, which I think are all high grade, so I wasn't sure if I should keep the flawed #1 in order to hold onto the others. I asked the seller if she could do a partial refund for just the first issue, but she didn't want to do that. That crease is almost a tear I think, so maybe I should get my money back and find a nicer copy, since it's by far the most valuable of the set I purchased.

I found a couple more flaws on first page. That spine crease does break color. Assuming the other issues could be pressed out, could someone give an estimate of what grade the book would then be in?

Maybe contact CGC and ask them if they use micro paper. Look at the bottom end from the back. The cover should be sticking out a little if it's the cover and not micro paper.

Bob, should all ensapsulated books be stored horizontally?

Does it affect the value one way or the other?

11 hours ago, Lobstrosity said:

The books were printed that way. Roughly 50% of the copies printed have "smudges" while the other half do not.

That's interesting. I'm glad my copy doesn't have marker on it. Are there any websites that mention that? Mine is a direct copy. Is it is newsstand copies that don't have the smudges, or do they both have?

4 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

HaHa. But they are all like that to some degree. The absolute WORST is when the owner or manager is a smoker and sometimes smokes inside. 

Yeah, I hate it when I order a book online that smells like smoke. Hasn't happened to me with comic books though, only regular books, since the latter aren't stored in bags.

Wasn't sure where to post  this...

Has anyone ever seen these marks on the inside front cover of Spawn #1? My brother also has a copy and said his doesn't have these marks. The shine on them looks the same as surrounding black ink, like it happened during printing rather than a previous owner marking the book. The marks also look sort of like an artist did them.

On 9/17/2017 at 11:38 AM, Bomber-Bob said:

I've helped out also, although I would go in on Tuesday when the books actually arrive. You are correct, out of the box, many books have problems. I also think it comes from the handling of the staff, who usually don't have the same appreciation for condition as some of us. Lunchtime, eating burgers and fries, a cursory wipe of the hands and then handling the books. Standing the books vertically, reaching in and grabbing books for the pull list, smoke break smell on fingers, grabbing a stack of books with one hand and squeezing them onto the wall shelves. Don't think they call in sick = coughing, sneezing around the books. Gotta go to the bathroom, grab a new book to read while you're in there. Counting the books to match the invoice, here come the finger bends.  Crazy stuff. Getting first shot at books is important my friends.

I wouldn't want to shop there Bob!

So if I got the book pressed, what would the grade likely be, assuming the first two issues could be pressed out; a 9.4 or 9.6?

Hi Tony. I can relate to being disappointed with the condition of some books, especially ones I buy online. At least at a store you have the advantage of picking the best copy you can find. The pressing fees I've seen aren't too bad. I think the shipping costs might be more expensive than the actual pressing fee, at least for one book. I don't plan on selling it any time soon, but if I was going to have it graded by CGC, I'd want to have it pressed first to get the highest grade possible.