COI

I think that happens to all of us at some point. But closing the lid on your collection, is not the same as doing so on a hoard. Again, I see no reason to hoard NM copies of a certain book unless it's for investment purposes, especially with a book like Hulk 181. The initial argument was centered around people leaving in the 90's. At that time, Hulk 181 was a $200-$300(?? correct me if I'm mistaken). I don't know what comics you had in 1989, or their value, but having a general collection stored in the closet(regarless of value) is not the same as a hoard of one key book.

"A lot of collectors probably have been hiding under a rock the last 3 years...tons of people left the hobby in the 1990s and haven't come back." True, but anyone who was collecting in the 90's would know that the Hulk 181 has value. I find it hard to believe that someone sitting on a hoard of NM copies of a book worth $200-$300 wouldn't continue to track its progress, especially after the media exposure this character has gotten from the cartoon, and the movie. Even if they weren't actively collecting, if they hoarded this book, it's likely for an investment. And what kind of an investor wouldn't check the status of his investment at least every couple of years. It's quite a stretch to say that this person wouldn't pick up a Wizard, or look in an Overstreet every once in a while. And if they did so in the last 3 years, they would know about the increase in value, and of CGC. "I've seen that Neat Stuff, for example, has huge stacks of pristine copies of Bronze Marvels in inventory and I'm quite sure they don't even know everything they have." But with their knowledge, I seriously doubt they would have a hoard of a major key in pristine condition without knowing about it. That's pretty far fetched. "Some 70's Thor" is quite a bit different from a Hulk 181. If they're so busy that they don't even realize they're sitting on a hoard of NM Hulk 181's, they should get out of this business. why couldn't a shrewd speculator have stored their Hulk 181s in a smart fashion?" So if these speculators are so shrewd, why would they let years pass without checking up on their investment? "Well, I don't know about you, but if I had 100 hoarded Hulk 181s, I sure as hell wouldn't let anybody know about it!!! " I agree with that.

"I also can't personally fathom the restraint necessary for dealers and collectors with multiple copies... to hold these potential HG gems back when they are commanding prices that are staggering. That defies human nature." This is a key point I made earlier. For a guy who has a hoard of NM 181's, the prices are too high to ignore. That's not to say they would sell them all, but I would at least think they would have a fair number slabbed, especially to prevent some future damage from occuring to them, thus resulting in a lesser grade. With the future economy as uncertain as it is now, combined with the profit margins these mythic hoarders stand to make, I can't see anyone turining their back for another 10 years. Again, I'm talking about pure NM or higher copies. I don't doubt the number of "nice copies" that may be available in hoards, but considering all the market evidence, as well as the comments above about the history of storage, I seriously find it doubtful that large quantities of these ultra high grades will turn up. I aknowledge that this is simply my opinion. If anyone has concrete evidence to the contrary, I more than invite you to prove me wrong. I care about knowledge first, and being right second.

Actually, as I mentioned a few pages ago, I think if you're going to buy this book in HG, a 9.6 is actually the best deal at around 3K-4K, especially when you consider that 9.2's sell for up to $1200. I think for comics in general the books that will have ANY shot of apreciation above inflation are the best copies available of its kind. But if you care more about the books as a passion, and can afford the copies you want and still provide yourself with 3 squares a day, by all means go nuts.

There's a big difference between Hulk 181's and "some 1970's thor" or ASM #299. There are cases where dealers will purchase old store stock, or some other similar hordes of books, usually as part of some bigger deal, and end up with books like the examples you used. If you told me that Neat Stuff had accumulated a whole box of GS X Men 1's or 94's, that argument would hold. But stumbling upon a horde of "some 70's Thor" is likely to, and probably happens all the time with bulk dealers. But unintentionally stumbling on a box of Hulk 181's? That would only happen in some dealer/fanboy wet dream. What we're saying isn't too different. The point is, it's doubtful that there are many hordes of this book, if any, in true NM. My initial argument was that there aren't going to be huge amounts of true NM OR HIGHER copies, not copies in general. I'm sure there's a lions share of VF's out there, including hoards, but IMO not many true 9.4-9.6's left. And again, I said I could be wrong, but this is my standing opinion based on my experiences with this book.

I realize that there are many collectors, and collections that are far away from CGC's hands, but I think collections of books and hoards of single issues are 2 different things. If anyone did hoard Hulk 181's, it's a safe assumption that they did so for investment purposes. Otherwise, what would be the point? Collecting a few nice copies of a favorite book is one thing, but hoarding is another. So it is likely that an investment minded individual would track the performance of their books, at least through guide anyway. And if they've picked up an overstreet in the past 2 years, they know of CGC. I realize it's POSSIBLE, but IMO it's highly unlikely. Also, I was referring to strict NM or higher copies. I'm sure there are a lot of hoarded VF's and even VF/NM's, but I doubt this is the case with NM or higher copies. Again, I don't know for sure, this is just my opinion based on observations. I was not around this hobby in the late 70's and through the 80's so I will not claim to be totally sure of my conviction, but If I had to make a wager, I would say that the majority of NM or higher copies are slabbed.

If anyone has "boxes and boxes" of NM or higher Hulk 181's, they'd have to be pretty stupid not to send at least a small fraction to CGC. At 2K + per copy, who in their right minds would not certify a decent portion at least? Especially if they paid next to nothing for them in the 70's and early-mid 80's.

I agree that there are a lot of nice copies out there, but I'm also inclined to think that a large number have already been graded. That being said, I think the best way to go on this book is to buy the highest possible grade. I'm working on my Silver keys right now, but when I decide to pick up a copy, I will definitley be in the market for a 9.6. IMO, a 9.6 is a bargain at just over 3 grand(if you can afford it, that is), especially when you consider that 9.2's consistently sell for around $1200.