RockMyAmadeus

Im using cameo vs first appearance...not for costume but for symbiotes in comic..i agree 252 is 1st costume but symbiote 1st as well.? Yes, ASM #252 is the first appearance of the symbiote. And it wasn't even a "retcon." It was designed as a symbiote from the start. It doesn't matter that the audience didn't know it was a symbiote. That's completely irrelevant. It's a plot device as old as the Greek Tragedies: hiding a key plot point from the audience, for a big reveal later in the play.

That's the key: you were 12. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with fondly remembering something from childhood, so long as you recognize that what was exciting and magical when you were a kid doesn't necessarily mean it is a quality piece of art or entertainment. I watched "The Poseidon Adventure" on Saturday afternoon TV when I was 8 or 9. I thought it was one of the greatest movies ever made. Fast forward to the 90's and I'm i college. i go to Costco one day, and see it, in VHS, for $9 or so. I couldn't wait to buy it to relive my childhood memories. So I watched it. And it was awful. It's melodrama at its finest, with irrational dialogue, plot holes you could drive a truck through, and Shelly Winters. That doesn't take away from the fact that my 8 or 9 year old self loved it. But, as an adult, I recognize how truly godawful that movie is. And I'll always remember that afternoon when I was 8 and enjoyed that awful movie.

Sometimes, I wish you really were me. You get away with so much that would get me banned.

Yes, Cal, having known you for nearly 20 years, I'm quite certain that's true.

If I remember correctly, AVP #1 was the highest printed "independent" book in history, until Youngblood #1. How they determine "independent" is anyone's guess, but at that point, it was anything that wasn't Marvel or DC. AVP was ALSO very late. AVP #0 reprints the stories in DHP #34-36. All four (34, 35, 36 x 2) are rather difficult to find in 9.8.

Besides...New Mutants #86 wasn't even Liefeld's first issue of New Mutants. He and McFarlane did the cover to #85, AND he had penciled the entire New Mutants Annual #5 from 1989, which was also a big deal at the time (1991-ish.) Even X-Factor #40 was "hot" for a couple of minutes, as was Liefeld's 1st DC work, in Warlord #131, and, of course, the Hawk & Dove mini (which Karl Kesel had to rework because Liefeld was so lame.)

By the way.... I have no current way of demonstrating this, BUT...for Dark Horse, dates were often just "suggestions", much like Image later on. Unlike Marvel, DC, Archie, et al, that kept strict and rigorous shipping deadlines, Dark Horse shipped when the book was printed, and that was that. I realize...fully...that having a May, 1988 "publication" date means the book was probably shipped around that time, and DHP kept to a fairly decent schedule, so November wouldn't possibly cover the gap...but it may have been a lot, LOT closer in terms of release than their "publication" dates suggest. Only a shipping manifest from the era will tell the truth. It could be that Aliens #1 was not even released until July of 1988...OR LATER...while DHP, with a November publication date, could have actually been published, like normal, in August. The big clue....the biggest...is the "Jan, 1989" publication date...a full eight MONTHS after #1....for issue #3. Aliens was REALLLLLLLLY late, which is why they ditched Nelson for the art for the second series. Its lateness was mentioned in the trade publications of the day. Probable...? Not at all. Possible...? The shipping manifests will tell all...........

The first one is a TPB collection of the first Aliens mini...the B&W 6 issue 1988-1989 series...the second should be a TPB collection of the 4 issue 1989 series...the color issues. By the way... Book Two for sure, and probably Book One as well, were published in 1990. Note Denis Beauvais' siganture with a "90" date on the cover of Book Two.

The reason I make the claim that I do is simply because there was no internet, and the series was so late (issue #1 has a MAY, 1988 cover date...#3 has a JANUARY, 1989 cover date), that the "collective consciousness" had simply forgotten about the release order of those three issues. Not everyone, obviously, but those who compiled such information...such as Overstreet's Jon Warren...could certainly have made that mistake. The fact of the matter is, DHP #24 wasn't supposed to come out in between issues #2 and #3, and by the time the series was "hot"...round about summer of 1989, and ESPECIALLY by 1990...everyone just forgot what order they came out. DHP #24 doesn't help. It "reads" like a preview. I don't have an unslabbed copy handy at the moment, so tell me what it says at the end of the story...the editorial blurb...I seem to recall something that's poking my memory...

Sales for #87 were not markedly different than sales for #86. In fact, New Mutants was a couple of minutes from being cancelled, because sales were so low. It's why Liefeld got the book. I would love to see a solicitation of #86, by anyone. Liefeld didn't achieve "hot new artist" status until about issue #93, six months after #87 came out in January of 1990. New Mutants sales did go up quite a bit after that, but that was mostly due to the X-Tinction Agenda crossover, which was a huge success. It wasn't until issue #100, though, that sales numbers went up dramatically (for comparison, Krause has Cap City orders at about 36k copies for #86 and #87, 52k copies for #98, and 104k for #100. X-Force #1 was 850k or so just for Cap City, about 1/3rd the Direct market at the time.) Cable wasn't an instant success. It took all of 1990 for things to get crazy. But, by the time #100 came out in Feb of 1991, it was getting nutso, and the four months between NM #100 and X-Force #1, when they reprinted #87, was a madhouse. That summer was nothing but X this and X that and X over here, oh, and don't forget Infinity Gauntlet.... If any of you get the chance, read the OPG Update reports from the time. The timeline for Cable and Liefeld is absolutely fascinating.

The reason is fairly straightforward. Dark Horse Presents was an anthology title that showcased new characters...like Concrete, Black Cross, Masque/Mask, etc. The first Aliens mini-series was bi-monthly...and late. Very, very late. So, the story in DHP #24 saw the light of day in between issues #2 and #3. And, the first two issues came in quite a bit under the radar, so a lot of people missed them. And, of course, DHP #24 was a fairly radical departure from the stuff DHP was known for at the time. And, DHP #36 does feature the "first appearance" of Aliens vs. Predator. Because Dark Horse didn't publish cover dates, the idea that DHP #24 was the first appearance just stuck. By the way....I love DHP #24. Love it. I will buy any copy of it, as many as I can get, for $5-$10, depending on condition. I so desperately want a 9.8 SS copy, but will have to settle for a plain 9.8. It was such a smoking hot book when I first started collecting, with AVP #1 due any day. I would happily own 100 copies of DHP #24 if I could.

"Spaced" and "Quadrant" were monstrous B&W hits that are now functionally worthless. "Albedo" has come back quite a bit because of Usagi, but it, too, was a monstrous hit that became worthless.

Calbot, take me away!

So only newer members can give him grief? Exactly. That is precisely what I meant. I didn't mean the opposite, no sirree. Only noobs can give Cal grief.

I don't think anybody with a join date before 2008 is qualified to give Cal grief. Noobs.

For purchases like that, the seller is dreaming if he thinks he's going to get $200,000 for "$400,000 worth" of material. IF...and that's a gargantuan IF...he has what he says he has, the only way he's going to see real money is if he makes the effort to get the ungraded books graded, and then sell them all through an established dealer...one with a very large shop presence...or someone like Heritage. Heritage will HAPPILY take them all, but there's no way they're carrying a briefcase filled with $200,000 to make the purchase. There's a reason these books are on Craigslist. That reason is that they're highly, greatly overvalued, or the seller is looking to rob someone, or, and this is a remote third, the seller has the goods, but doesn't want to put in the effort it would take to see it realized, and it would be significant.

At what point is it a "later" issue? Not sure how long either run is.... Just curious as a used bookstore by me, basically at $2 a piece, has small runs of: John Carter, Groo, JLA, and I think that's it. I've checked the JC for price variants, but a cashier there cherry picks it'd be nice to find something worth reading etc. Groo is awesome. One of the best comics ever produced. 36 years of hilarity and hijinks, courtesy of Aragones and company. I highly, highly recommend it. Fun, light-hearted reading.

That is very cool. I wonder what the circumstances are behind their creation, since AF went Direct with issue #52...

But there's no "subset"...it's not like there are multiple versions of these books. There's quite literally only ONE version, it just happens to be with a UPC code, what people have called "newsstand." That's one of the reasons why a definition of "newsstand vs. Direct" isn't as clear cut as it appears.

Those flakes aren't made of corn....

...lately....?

Probably about 15 or so. I had a full short box and a half of the entire set, all printings, but I've been whittling them down as the market warms up in its cycles. I had a beautiful 9.8 SS signed by Miller and Janson that I sold because, unfortunately, I needed the money. That was in the $350/sig days of 2016. Sigh. I'm incredibly lucky it came back a 9.8. 9.6 would have been cutting it close, and now you'd be under water. I'd like to get it back, though.

It's annoying to see "Dark Knight Returns" on #2, #3, and #4 slabs, since "returns" isn't any part of any of the titles of those books....on purpose. The title of each was a play on the phrase "the dark knight"...as in, "the Dark Knight Falls" and "Hunt the Dark Knight" and "Dark Knight Triumphant." In fact, without doing a word search, I would imagine the word "returns" is nowhere to be found in any of those three books, anywhere. Oh well. It's just sloppy. If it had been "The Dark Knight Comes Back", we wouldn't be calling it DKCB....

Hey, you live a block down from Marge Simpson. By the way...the whole thing was a ploy, concocted by the USPS and Sleeping Giant, to get you into the store. Worked, didn't it...?

By the way....it's unfortunate that Don Rosa, like many, has such an unrealistic and silly notion regarding comics. There will always be people who care nothing for the artform, but use the artform to make money. After all...Don Rosa himself uses the artform to make money. He resents the free market because he doesn't understand the free market. However...the reason so many people are willing to pay more than cover price...sometimes tens of millions times more than cover price...is because they enjoyed them. Very, very few people who "invest" in comics do so because they have no attachment to them whatsoever. And those that do always move on to the next fad when they realize that "investing" in comics is a fool's game. Those that form an attachment to the artform, who buy comics for ENJOYMENT, generally stay. It's not one or the other. It's both. So when Don Rosa sneers at people for wanting to slab books, he's doing it out of ignorance, as he's done now for 40+ years. Don Rosa, who refuses to sign for "slabbing", because, OBVIOUSLY, people who slab books can't POSSIBLY have enjoyed his work, can't POSSIBLY have appreciated and ENJOYED what he created, and are "just in it for the money"...you know, like he, himself, is....and are to be shunned and despised. Oh well.