RockMyAmadeus

Annual #3. Deadpool's second appearance doesn't move the needle despite NM #98 being so hot (we point copies of X-Force #2 out to kids who drool over NM #98 when we do shows, and we can't even sell them at $5). I can't think of any Copper second appearances that have broken out; maybe there are some but I can't think of any. Why would second Nightwing be a big deal over any other second appearance? I would be guessing DP's 2nd appearance had a much higher print run, but I understand your logic here. I am trying to think of any other books where the 2nd appearance commands any type of $$ in the modern/copper world. Currently I cant think of any. Isn't Venom's second full appearance ASM #316? That pulls in some money. It's also Venom's first cover, though, so there's that factor to consider. Then again, Archangel/Death's second (full) appearance is huge, but it's also his first cover. True, but that book is also one of those "is it or isn't it" books like #180/181. I think that the appearance in #23 is clearly his first appearance, but the market clearly favors #24; probably due to the cover. So in this case #24 is not valued as a second appearance, but has simply been hyped as the first full. The market can be wrong and often is. It seems like there are some 2nds that retain some value. I was simply wondering though. I though the DC Sampler 2 came out prior to the Annual 3? Even if it did, Annual #3 is directly led into by #44...it is Judas Contract part 4.

Annual #3. Deadpool's second appearance doesn't move the needle despite NM #98 being so hot (we point copies of X-Force #2 out to kids who drool over NM #98 when we do shows, and we can't even sell them at $5). I can't think of any Copper second appearances that have broken out; maybe there are some but I can't think of any. Why would second Nightwing be a big deal over any other second appearance? X-Force #2 had a print run at, or over, a million copies. So, there's a bit of a supply factor involved. But yes, the "second appearance" has taken a nosedive in popularity, across the board. Where second, third, fourth appearances used to command respectable money (like, say, Legion of Supes, or Batman, as a classic example, or J'onn J'onzz, or much of Showcase and B&B)...now, if it's not a first appearance, everyone turns their nose up at it. Which either may herald a buying opportunity, or the end of the value of later appearances.

No. That really is just a terrible comparison. Low feedback seller and a high jacked account. In other words, scam listing. GPA has been alerted. You get those a lot with hot books. The comiclink listing for the cerebus 1 meanwhile really does just represent an apathetic buying public. Thanks for playing. (thumbs u http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-Graded-9-4-NO-RESERVE-3000-OR-BEST-OFFER-/111446217882?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item19f2b6549a -J. Qualify, qualify, qualify...

What Chuck said. To which I would add: "perhaps it's perception based on personal feeling, by the exposure of irrational premises", illustrated below: "Cerebus #1 is worth more than Hulk #181 in certain grades." "WHAT??!!!?!!?!?!?! Hulk #181 is the BESTEST BOOK OF ALL TIME, how DARE anything be worth more than it is???" "The facts clearly show that it is." "You're just an A-HOLE who is JEALOUS, so I'm going to purposely read into your posts a condescending, braggadocious attitude, because I don't like you challenging my feelings!" "Feel free." I dunno, that's what I see. I could be wrong. Confidence is often perceived as arrogance by the unconfident. To which I would add, "your opinion is noted ad infinitum." I suspect that means nail met hammer right on its head. Your head? Sure, let's go with that.

Annual #3.

My only regret is that you can put someone on ignore, but that doesn't stop them from seeing...and reacting to...what you post.

Let's diagram this situation: Park and I were on the phone, chatting. He mentioned a post he had made that he wanted me to see. I saw it, and saw it was funny. Then, I scrolled a bit back, to get the context, and because this post had been quoted (and believe me...I read next to nothing of what skypinkblu posts), I scanned it, and noticed the above quote. I thought to myself "Huh. The other day *I* said something about using first names. I wonder if...." And sure enough, when I went back to go look at it, here it is: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=7989981&Searchpage=1&Main=350781&Words=user+RockMyAmadeus&topic=0&Search=true#Post7989981 We could just refer to each person's user name.... Too easy? ...and found out that, yes indeed, this post has been notified. Coincidence? I think not. Just so we're all on the same page, that comment was in reply to Buzzetta, and had absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with "skypinkblu." I am ON RECORD as stating that I don't like when real names (that aren't part of someone's user name) are used, because it A. is confusing to people who don't know who you're talking to, and B. can be a tad elitist ("oh, look how good friends we are, we're on a first name basis.) But mostly A. The comment had absolutely NOTHING to do with "skypinkblu", or ANYTHING she said, and there is absolutely NOTHING about that post that is "notify worthy"...unless someone was LOOKING for trouble that was never there. My reply was to BUZZ and BUZZ ONLY. So, NO, "skypinkblu" was NOT "called out" for using first names, either directly OR indirectly. "Skypinkblu" was not referred to in ANY WAY. She wasn't even ON MY MIND when I replied to Buzz, other than carefully making sure her initial comment to Buzz was carefully edited out. Serially hitting notify when you merely SUSPECT someone is referring to you is harassment, and should be addressed by the moderators. There's no need for the paranoia. This song isn't about you. Rupp has a point. I have no doubt that this post, too, will be "notified."

Even though I'm a Marvel guy, this was one arc I had to complete. If you are into reading comics, I think it's worth getting all four issues. Don't stop there. Get issues 26-41 as well, which shows the genesis of the Judas Contract arc. Don't stop...believin'....hold on to that feeeeeelin'.....

What Chuck said. To which I would add: "perhaps it's perception based on personal feeling, by the exposure of irrational premises", illustrated below: "Cerebus #1 is worth more than Hulk #181 in certain grades." "WHAT??!!!?!!?!?!?! Hulk #181 is the BESTEST BOOK OF ALL TIME, how DARE anything be worth more than it is???" "The facts clearly show that it is." "You're just an A-HOLE who is JEALOUS, so I'm going to purposely read into your posts a condescending, braggadocious attitude, because I don't like you challenging my feelings!" "Feel free." I dunno, that's what I see. I could be wrong. Confidence is often perceived as arrogance by the unconfident. To which I would add, "your opinion is noted ad infinitum." I suspect that means nail met hammer right on its head.

What Chuck said. To which I would add: "perhaps it's perception based on personal feeling, by the exposure of irrational premises", illustrated below: "Cerebus #1 is worth more than Hulk #181 in certain grades." "WHAT??!!!?!!?!?!?! Hulk #181 is the BESTEST BOOK OF ALL TIME, how DARE anything be worth more than it is???" "The facts clearly show that it is." "You're just an A-HOLE who is JEALOUS, so I'm going to purposely read into your posts a condescending, braggadocious attitude, because I don't like you challenging my feelings!" "Feel free." I dunno, that's what I see. I could be wrong. Confidence is often perceived as arrogance by the unconfident.

There is a massive difference between these grades for very rare books. There is a psychological difference between 8.5 and 9.0 (it's the single most significant psychological difference in the entire scale, and it is exponentially magnified as the book gets rarer.) The market responds differently to these books in these grades than to common books. What can be argued about an 8.5 cannot be argued for a 9.0 for very rare books (and Cerebus #1 is a VERY rare book.) I suspect that Jaydog is only used to dealing with very common Marvels and the like, all of which show a much more gradual increase in value over these grades, because they are so common in them. Sorry to keep repeating this, but hope springs eternal (BJ, does hoping that other people will learn about these things make me a braggart...?)

Comparing a 9.8 Hulk #181 to a Cerebus #1 in 9.4 is a much better comparison, but it still falls short, because a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would be a complete and total monster. It would blow away the price for any Hulk #181 9.8, ever. It would easily be a $30-$40k book. What dealer in his right mind is going to turn down a flawless Cerebus #1...if one even still exists....in favor of a flawless Hulk #181? None of them. I completely disagree with your contention that any dealer would pay more for a Hulk #181 than a Cerebus #1, raw. They would be utterly foolish to do so. They would be utterly foolish to do it for a 9.6 potential Cerebus #1, vs. a 9.8 potential Hulk #181. They might even be utterly foolish to do so for a 9.4 potential Cerebus #1. There are dealers who would pay $5,000 for a solid "9.4 or possibly better" Cerebus #1. I don't know ANYONE who would pay that for a 9.8 potential, unless it was a slam dunk, all day long 9.8...because if it comes back 9.6, they've just lost hundreds, if not a thousand, dollars. The facts are what they are: by Overstreet, Cerebus #1 is a more valuable book in 9.2, because that's as high as it goes. In reality, it trumps Hulk #181 in every grade from 9.2 on up, except for the freak grade of 9.9 (and that's a one-off total anomaly.) A lot of you really underestimate the demand for and rarity of Cerebus #1 in high grades. Outside of the bubble that is Overstreet's 2013 numbers , I don't believe a cerebus 1, 9.2 has a higher FMW than a Hulk 181, 9.2. -J. I will trade you a Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Why? 1) I can find Hulk 181s in 9.2 with nearly no effort. 2) I can find Cerebus 1s in 9.2 only with extreme effort. 3) I will be paying essentially what the market says for a Hulk 181 in 9.2 4) I will be paying what the dealer says for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2. You may believe otherwise, but you are just wrong on this. And he's not kidding when he says "with extreme effort" can a 9.2 Cerebus #1 be found. They simply do not exist, and the ones that do (all SS, by the way), you would have to offer obscene money to obtain. THAT is why this whole "oh, well, a 9.2 Cerebus #1 sold for $2100 in 2005, and the market "declined" since then, so it's reasonable to say it could be had for less today" is beyond absurd. A NINE POINT ZERO sold for $2500 last year. 9.2 Hulk #181? I can wave around $2500 and have one by Saturday. I could *probably* wave around $2100, and have one by the end of next week. ...and an 8.5 sold for $850 THIS year. Like a few weeks ago even.. Just sayin.... Release the hounds! -J. So...buy it for $850...press it to 9.0...if you can...and sell it for $2500.

Comparing a 9.8 Hulk #181 to a Cerebus #1 in 9.4 is a much better comparison, but it still falls short, because a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would be a complete and total monster. It would blow away the price for any Hulk #181 9.8, ever. It would easily be a $30-$40k book. What dealer in his right mind is going to turn down a flawless Cerebus #1...if one even still exists....in favor of a flawless Hulk #181? None of them. I completely disagree with your contention that any dealer would pay more for a Hulk #181 than a Cerebus #1, raw. They would be utterly foolish to do so. They would be utterly foolish to do it for a 9.6 potential Cerebus #1, vs. a 9.8 potential Hulk #181. They might even be utterly foolish to do so for a 9.4 potential Cerebus #1. There are dealers who would pay $5,000 for a solid "9.4 or possibly better" Cerebus #1. I don't know ANYONE who would pay that for a 9.8 potential, unless it was a slam dunk, all day long 9.8...because if it comes back 9.6, they've just lost hundreds, if not a thousand, dollars. The facts are what they are: by Overstreet, Cerebus #1 is a more valuable book in 9.2, because that's as high as it goes. In reality, it trumps Hulk #181 in every grade from 9.2 on up, except for the freak grade of 9.9 (and that's a one-off total anomaly.) A lot of you really underestimate the demand for and rarity of Cerebus #1 in high grades. Outside of the bubble that is Overstreet's 2013 numbers , I don't believe a cerebus 1, 9.2 has a higher FMW than a Hulk 181, 9.2. -J. I will trade you a Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Why? 1) I can find Hulk 181s in 9.2 with nearly no effort. 2) I can find Cerebus 1s in 9.2 only with extreme effort. 3) I will be paying essentially what the market says for a Hulk 181 in 9.2 4) I will be paying what the dealer says for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2. You may believe otherwise, but you are just wrong on this. And he's not kidding when he says "with extreme effort" can a 9.2 Cerebus #1 be found. They simply do not exist, and the ones that do (all SS, by the way), you would have to offer obscene money to obtain. THAT is why this whole "oh, well, a 9.2 Cerebus #1 sold for $2100 in 2005, and the market "declined" since then, so it's reasonable to say it could be had for less today" is beyond absurd. A NINE POINT ZERO sold for $2500 last year. 9.2 Hulk #181? I can wave around $2500 and have one by Saturday. I could *probably* wave around $2100, and have one by the end of next week.

No, that's unsound reasoning. The "highest graded premium" argument only goes so far. I'm not comparing a real 9.8 to a non-existent 9.8. I'm saying that you CAN'T compare a real 9.8 to a real 9.4. There are lots of GA books that have the highest graded as 5.0, 6.5, 8.5. Would it be fair to compare them to a 9.8, just because they're both "highest graded"? No, of course not.

Comparing a 9.8 Hulk #181 to a Cerebus #1 in 9.4 is a much better comparison, but it still falls short, because a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would be a complete and total monster. It would blow away the price for any Hulk #181 9.8, ever. It would easily be a $30-$40k book. What dealer in his right mind is going to turn down a flawless Cerebus #1...if one even still exists....in favor of a flawless Hulk #181? None of them. I completely disagree with your contention that any dealer would pay more for a Hulk #181 than a Cerebus #1, raw. They would be utterly foolish to do so. They would be utterly foolish to do it for a 9.6 potential Cerebus #1, vs. a 9.8 potential Hulk #181. They might even be utterly foolish to do so for a 9.4 potential Cerebus #1. There are dealers who would pay $5,000 for a solid "9.4 or possibly better" Cerebus #1. I don't know ANYONE who would pay that for a 9.8 potential Hulk #181, unless it was a slam dunk, all day long 9.8...because if it comes back 9.6, they've just lost hundreds, if not a thousand, dollars. The facts are what they are: by Overstreet, Cerebus #1 is a more valuable book in 9.2, because that's as high as it goes. In reality, it trumps Hulk #181 in every grade from 9.2 on up, except for the freak grade of 9.9 (and that's a one-off total anomaly.) A lot of you really underestimate the demand for and rarity of Cerebus #1 in high grades.

It doesn't work that way. That isn't how the market reacts to 9.9s and 10s. This just isn't how 9.9s and 10s work. It also isn't how the market reacts to the "highest graded" when you compare very rare books (like Cerebus #1 and Action #1) to very, very common books (like Hulk #181.) The Hulk #181 9.9 is only worth what it is because it is in a case that says "9.9" on the label. Remove it from that case, and it automatically loses more than 95% of its "value." Reslab it, and it will come back the 9.8 it is now, the 9.9 having vanished into the ether with time. Remove the 9.4 Cerebus #1 from its case, and it loses value...but only about 50% (or less) especially if people know that it is the 9.4 copy. Reslab it, and you might even pull a 9.6 (or a 9.2, however tightly/loosely the book was originally graded.) All these things you're saying go for every single comic, and are not in the least bit specific to this situation. Of course a comic's grade intrinsically related to the grade assigned. And that value is diminished greatly if the comic is cracked or if it's re-graded lower. You're not fully appreciating what I've said. The value of a 9.4 book is in the book. Whether it is slabbed or not, the book has value. The slab only confirms what the market will value it at. The value of the book is not directly tied into the number on the label. If Flying Donut (and I'm pretty sure I can say this without question) looks at a Cerebus #1, and thinks it has a fair shot at 9.4...especially if he knows it was already a 9.4 in a slab at one point...he will pay the "going rate" for a 9.4 by a dealer. I don't think $5,000 would be out of the question for a dealer. There is no dealer on the planet...none...that would pay whatever amount a 9.9 Hulk #181 would be worth to a dealer if the book was no longer in the 9.9 slab. You would have a very, VERY difficult time getting someone to pay the 9.8 price for it. That's because 9.9s and 10s operate completely differently than the rest of the market. The value difference between a 9.8 and a 9.9 is entirely, completely, and totally in the number on the label. It has absolutely nothing to do with the book inside the case (that does not mean the book itself is meaningless! It means the value difference between a 9.8 and 9.9 of that book is entirely independent of the actual physical example inside the case.) So, no, you can't compare "highest graded", especially of ultra common books, to "highest graded" of very rare books, and have any meaningful comparison. I think I can safely say that there's not a single comic book that exists that is worth $1,000 in 9.9 that would only lose 50% of its value. In fact, I think I can safely say that there's not a single comic book that exists that would be worth $100 if it was cracked out of a $1,000 9.9 slab. I would be willing to place substantial money on that bet, sure as I am. The value of the Cerebus #1 9.4 does, indeed, partly pertain to it being "highest graded." But it is in a completely different universe from a 9.9 Hulk #181. They aren't comparable as "highest graded." No doubt. But then, you are comparing very rare to very rare, and reasonable grades to reasonable grades. They are comparable examples.

Why would they pop? If any book in that run should be heating up it would be 10 and 34 I think. Maybe 39 too I always thought #21 had a lot going for it. First Brother Blood, pre-Crisis Monitor appearance, Night Force preview story. All it needs is for either Brother Blood or Night Force to make a go. I like NTT 39 too. White cover, Flash and Robin quit... But for NTT 42 and 43, it would require people to actually want to read their comics for them to pop, and that generally rules out most of the factors that make comics pop. (ref: Marvel Super-heroes 18, first appearance of a bunch of characters NOT in a recent hit movie but still skyrocketed in value) But if you think they will, don't sleep on Annual 3 for the conclusion of the Judas Contract arc. I would far rather pick Annual #3 (2nd Nightwing) over #42 and #43 (not that #42 and #43 are without merit...but Annual #3 is much more important.)

That sound you just heard was Pandora's box re-opening. Release the hounds RMA! -J. Release the popcorn!

It doesn't work that way. That isn't how the market reacts to 9.9s and 10s. This just isn't how 9.9s and 10s work. It also isn't how the market reacts to the "highest graded" when you compare very rare books (like Cerebus #1 and Action #1) to very, very common books (like Hulk #181.) The Hulk #181 9.9 is only worth what it is because it is in a case that says "9.9" on the label. Remove it from that case, and it automatically loses more than 95% of its "value." Reslab it, and it will come back the 9.8 it is now, the 9.9 having vanished into the ether with time. Remove the 9.4 Cerebus #1 from its case, and it loses value...but only about 50% (or less) especially if people know that it is the 9.4 copy. Reslab it, and you might even pull a 9.6 (or a 9.2, however tightly/loosely the book was originally graded.)

I have a sig series Econ order that was entered into the system 6/9. Went to "scheduled for grading" a week ago.

Yes. 9.4. And yes, Cerebus #1 is extremely rare in high grade. EXTREMELY rare.

I can't listen to it. Pretty But then, I listen to Holst and Shosty on a fairly regular basis.

The Beatles, Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, Stones...they're laughin' atcha!! You saying they didn't play their own instruments and sing their own tunes? I'm talking about someone who doesn't ink his own pencils. Um George Martin had quite a bit to do with how the Beatles finished product sounded... Just saying. Did he play their instruments for them? What about when they went on tour? Marvel editors have quite a bit of influence on a finished comic too, but unless they physically dipped a pen in ink and applied it to the bristol I'm not actually counting it. And I didn't bring the Beatles up, and have never claimed they were the "King" of music. Sorry, maybe the Beatles thing was confusing. My point is, John Lennon and Paul McCartney had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. Run and DMC had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. I don't see how that means that they're not good at what they do. Or does your point only apply to comic artists? Did you know that the word "seminal" comes from the same root word as "semen"...?

Take it with a grain of salt. Asking CBR who the best illustrators are is like asking MTV viewers who the greatest musicians are. T-Pain and Justin Beiber are sure to make the list. Apparently, according to CBR, in order to be a good artist you HAVE to draw super heroes. I could google it, but who is "T-Pain"?