RS88

Yup, you’re right!

You are correct, and as this appeared in a public forum and solved with this public forum - You all deserve to know and decide for yourselves. @king_collectables is the company, Luis Guizar is the name. Everyone has a right to decide for themselves on where the guilt lies and are free to contact him for his side of the story, and I’ll take any queries you have if you need more, I do trust that the community will conduct themselves respectfully - I just really don’t want anyone bullied. Awareness is the key concept for me, continued torture isn’t

Hey guys, Fair enough! I cannot speak to the validity of his story of how he ‘found’ the art - personally I think we can all guess correctly what actually happened - but it was dealt with privately outside law enforcement or any PayPal intervention. No ransom or anything nefarious - just a claim joined with a story that he now had the art and would like to send it back. He reached out to me. I can only guess as to if it was a) his story was true b) the pressure via social media inhibiting any chance to continue to be involved in the community, c) the understanding that the art would never ever be able to sold - or d) just a crisis of conscience There was ultimately no admission of guilt, but just desire to move forward and try to undo what was done. I will tell you that the entertainment value on the story was quite high, however. I am pretty exhausted with the ordeal at this point - so I’m not sure where it will lead - but I do know it’s a great testimony that this community are junk-yard dogs when they are wronged! Is that enough? Or is there more detail required? Thanks again everyone.

Lol nope. And I’ll try to find a way to explain that logic in the update.

Well, major event in the case of Drama-ell’Otto Artwork has been ‘found’ and to be returned this week. Details to follow.

One of the first thing that PayPal checks in a dispute is if the original weight of the package matches the weight sent back. Any difference I could claim that he sent back a dead fish if it was heavier than what was sent down - or lighter I could say he sent packaged air. This guy knew what he was doing and has likely heard how the scam works and tried it for the first time, sadly, on me. In all honesty, I did accept the package back in the thought that maybe I wasn’t experiencing my first screw job in OA trading/buying/selling. I could have refused it but I didn’t know if he was actually sending back the original.

Amazing question!

Hahaha will you vouch for me Kwan?

I think this is absolutely correct. And I remember being dumb when I thought I was smart around that age. My fingers are crossed,

Id really like for him to do the right thing, and return the art. I understand that people make mistakes, and some situations are more desperate than others. It's a great hobby, and I'd hate for a decision made in his early 20's to rule him out for life. I'm upset, don't get me wrong, but I can forgive.

PayPal is a horrible intermediary. As a buyer there's no recourse if you go Friends & Family. As a seller, there's no protection if you accept payment on an item or service. I have a developed a new canon: 1. A purchase limit for both PayPal & Ebay 2. Extensive reference checks on seller with references provided - if it has a good feel, or if I have done business with this person: ignore rule 1 3. Google the address I'm shipping a package 4. Large purchases must be completed with a wire/money order I'm not in the business of buying art to flip or sell it. I wanted to move this piece as there were a couple of incredible pieces that popped up. It's my own mantra now, and the story I'm sharing is just intended to put awareness to the community that this can happen, and to warn you of who's involved.

I feel like the buyer is attempting to protect his own reputation as he is in the OA community. I have nothing to hide, and yes I understand the counterpoint of the situation - I'm happy to address any questions.

The whole motive behind that was an attempt to save the service fee. But I was also walking into a situation where I would be at a large disadvantage as a seller. I do have documentation of the exchange, and it's fairly clear that the intent was go try and get the best deal possible to the buyer. One thing that should be noted, is that there was no attempt at all to talk with me regarding his accusation at all during the entire process - he only came out yesterday because he spoke with the local legal authorities and knew that I had escalated this to a litigation level.

There was a lengthy back and forth in the comment section of a Facebook post yesterday. I reached out to anyone that came in supporting the buyer's claim and to explain the sequence of events - he didn't get a lot of support for his accusation. He is in the OA community, and has worked cons and with some comic stores and signature desks. I'm not sure if you've all seen Ozark Season 1 - but Jason Bateman's answer to the lady stealing from her employer is something that rings pretty true right now....

I've definitely learned my lesson. Like I mentioned initially, I know where I went wrong - and a lot of the blame through being naïve and not doing my own due diligence can be pointed in my direction

Great assertation. I didn’t know this and the concept had me spun around quite a bit. I just don’t understand why there was absolutely no attempt to communicate an issue until it all exploded on social media. And yes, when big dollars are spent cautiously one would expect a few questions. Just so unfortunate....

Yessir! Most of the damage is happening on Annabel Kirby’s post But it may be taken down as Annabel is sadly and unfairly caught hosting the debate

Luis Guizar on CAF Jose Luis Guizar on Mail Labels Luis Montana on Facebook

It has not

Hey guys, updated - seems like there’s some fury today as the buyer is feeling the heat of being outed.

Unfortunately I was his first mark according to Bill Cox @ CAF. From what Bill has also sniffed out - and makes total sense - was that he was more concerned that I was out of country and not in the US.

That is correct Malvin, as soon as the Buyer showed proof of delivery on a return PayPal instantly refunded to the buyer and sucked the same amount out of my bank account....

Hey, thanks for the notes and suggestions - yes, both local law enforcements will be/have been contacted. My police service in Canada and I will also contact law enforcement in Visalia CA to register the incident there. I’ll keep the post updated with any updates, but in the interim I did feel that it was important to share the story with the OA community - it definitely sucks being on this end.

I feel like now is a great time for a refresher on key flags when buying and selling - you’re just the guy to do it

If you can get a good escrow service or a dealer to act as the middle-man - I'm assuming it would be easier.