StarV100

On 11/6/2022 at 7:43 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Have you ever graded books in volume before?

Yes. Exactly the way I've described. I've been collecting for 60 years. Ran a comic shop in the 80's. You?

This is a job in 2 parts: cataloging and grading. 

Cataloging: Hire a young (teenage) comic enthusiast (so they know to be careful) to put it all into an Excel spreadsheet. Spend an hour with them to establish ground rules, handling standards and naming conventions. Lots of teenagers would JUMP at the chance to earn $20 an hour to mess around with a comic book collection. Once the spreadsheet is set up, they could easily do a couple of hundred an hour. So that's $1200. 

Grading: The owner wants some level of grading which is clearly going to be way below CGC standards. I would provide grade ranges, not exact grades for the money range we are discussing. Maybe 4 categories:  2.0 - 5.0; 5.0 to 7.0; 7.0 to 9.0 and above 9.0. Personally, I wouldn't want to set expectations with the client at any more exactitude than that. Based on a system like that, I would bet you could run through 1 or 2 books a minute, maybe more. Have the teenager as a grading partner to stage the books for you and enter your spoken range into the spreadsheet, and you might bump that rate to 3 a minute.  High value books would be referred to higher levels of grading. If the grading job is valued at $50 / hr. that's $5,000 - $10,000 plus the higher grading referral cost. With the teenager, you might get it to around $4500. Remember, CGC would charge 6-figure money to grade this stuff.

A lot of people here are balking at $1 - $2 per book. But that's a tiny fraction of CGC grading, for a corresponding fraction of the certainty of grade. But the owner can't expect grading for nothing. You have to price the job based on what your time is worth to you. But all in, I think you might get it done for $6,000 - $7,000.

I started collecting in the 60's (man). I had thought I was keeping everything in mint, but my preservation skills in those days weren't exactly archival. Anyway, I was the guy that was buying the stuff off my friends, giving them stupid profits, like 25 cents a book. I collected JIM starting in the 90's, ASM all the way, and lots of others. I still have a catalogue from the 60's advertising old comics. I bought ASM 2 to 5 and 11 to 14 for a total of $17. They've come in from CGC recently averaging 6.0 or so. ASM #1 was too expensive for me at $6. Never did get it. I also got Hulk #2. Similar story with #1 - couldn't afford it at around $4. 

At age 10, I joined the Merry Marvel Marching Society (anybody else?). I sent a news clipping to the Marvel Madison Avenue office and got a hand written note back from Stan Lee himself (signed: "from Stan and the gang"). I still have the note, along with the MMMS stationery, some stickers and a lapel pin.

In the 70's, I came home from university one summer to find all my comics tied up in 6 bundles, ready for the trash. Got 'em back. One bundle was a run of Avengers from 20 to 65, Daredevil from 12 - 34. Oh yeah, Cap 100 - 103, Iron Man 1 - 5 (# 1 recently graded at 7.5).

I owned a comic shop in the 80's. My supplier, a major comic store, gave me tips on what to buy in bulk. I had a relationship with a news stand supplier who let me go into his warehouse and pull as much of anything as I wanted. I got scores of ASM 252, Thor 337 and others in pristine mint, many of them Canadian Price Variants. Put them away for 40 years. I have a few dozen at CGC now (and they've been there since March). Others have been averaging 9.6 and 9.8.

My submission, received in March 2021, went dark because it's been in the system for more than 8 months. When I enter the order number, I get the message

details will be available when the submission is at the "Scheduled for Grading" status.

So I'm facing a black hole for months until they deem my books are ready for grading.

My Moderns have been "Received at CCS" since 03/15, coming on 7 months now.

Is that surprising?

Modern - 14 books

3/15/21 - Received at CCS

That's it. Sitting in Received for 6 months

On 8/18/2021 at 1:49 PM, Mijael.Levy said:

My Express package was just delivered to CGC , do you know how much time they take to open it ?

Couple of months. Or days. Depends on who sees it, I think.

After my modern non-fast-track books have been sitting in "Received" since 03/17 (yep, 5 months), they are now in "Received at CCS". 

I don't see that status anywhere in the help. Since pressing (obviously) goes before grading, does it mean that my waiting period of >100 days for the actual pressing a) starts now; or b) is over and the pressing will begin shortly?

On 7/26/2021 at 11:00 AM, comixry said:

It will be interesting to see TATs in the next 6 months or so. CGC is definitely no longer the nimble speedboat it once was 20 years ago but rather an aircraft carrier (cruise ship?). It will take some time to pivot and right the course.

More like a drifting barge. Their business model is inexplicably flawed.

4 hours ago, Prince Namor said:

It really isn't about what 'WE' want. As long as there is a market for 3rd party graded collectibles, there will be submissions. And I don't see that market dying anytime soon.

CGC's turnaround times were (are) horrible, did it slow their submissions down? No.

CGC's quality control was regularly called into question, did it slow their submissions down? No.

Depending on who you talk to, CGC's grading could be... inconsistent at times.... did it slow their submissions down? No.

If anything - the business has proven that you DON'T need to change these things in order to make money hand over fist.

Seems like the perfect business for a bigger dog to buy.

 

You suggest that submissions have not been impaired. I don't know where you get your data, but I do know several people, including myself, who have held back hundreds of books because the TAT isn't worth the wait. 

On 7/4/2021 at 2:55 PM, icefires said:

Drama queen here, back from the dead, as anticipated. I am not intimate with Blackstone, but I certainly know Apollo Global inside and out (Leon Black - some trivia - Leon purchased Edvard Munch's "The Scream"  in 2012 for 119.9 Million $). These two private equities are actually twins. Best of luck to the excellent comic book dealers/collectors here who have no clue as to how private equities function. Nothing is predictable.

That's true. We don't know how Blackstone will approach the management of this business. But we do know the current business model is creaking under its own weight.

1 hour ago, miraclemet said:

Blackstone is in the business of optimizing profits. 
CGC has already done the first thing by bringing restoration/pressing in house. This was a delicate thing to do, that could have been very messy, but CGC made efforts to ensure a firewall between their pressing/restoring division and their grading division. 

Easy Blackstone initiative, push books to "add services" when they are submitted.

Bad Idea #1) When a book is submitted for grading that could benefit from a press, they suggest it to the submitter. It adds to total turnaround time, but increases revenue to CGC by getting more books into their pressing pipeline (based on Facebook there are lots of submitters who are unaware, or oblivious to pressing services, and probably would use them if they were "suggested". 

Bad Idea #2) The ebay, virtual evaluation revenue stream could be expanded. Why just have it through ebay? Why not direct thru CGC website? Virtual submittals for electronic assessments. Again, expanding a revenue stream, that can also stretch the current workforce unless they add staff (and hopefully train staff). Or how about go one step further. Dont wait for people to ask for evaluation of books, offer spontaneous ones on books that have lots of bids/watchers? And then build an incentive stream from the virtaul evaluations to physical submittals (credits from the virtual evaluations that get applied to physical submittals). 

Bad Idea #3) CGC is only involved in the early to mid part of a books lifecycle from publishing to collecting to encapsulating to selling. They could expand their role in both the early side (publishing>Collecting) and the late side (selling). On the early side they could expand on their direct from the printer encapsulation programs, or heck even look to move some of the printing onsite (so they can control the printing to ensure the minty-est of copies). They already do a little of this with Dynamic Forces, but what if they did it with actual publishers (DC, Marvel, Image) 

Bad Idea #4) Back to owning more of the collectible lifecycle. Why does CGC increase the value of a book (thru grading/encapsulating) without getting a bigger piece of that value increase? If they owned a sales/auction platform they could not only make money from grading but also a cut of the increased value. Conflict of interest? SURE. But remember Blackstone isnt in the "trusted partner" business, they're in the "make as much money as possible" business. So why not have CGC Auctions. A book can go from pressing, to grading/encapsulating right to the auction block with CGC taking a cut like the other auction houses. That way CGC gets to make money through the ENTIRE lifecycle of the collectible. 

So many bad ideas that could be implemented under the rationale of profits and market expansion... 

 

You must be a politician. You describe all these bad ideas of your own invention, ascribe them to someone, then decry that someone for potentially implementing your bad ideas. It's crazy, circular logic.

On 7/3/2021 at 9:09 PM, D84 said:

A startup company is a newly formed business with particular momentum behind it based on perceived demand for its product or service. The intention of a startup is to grow rapidly as a result of offering something that addresses a particular market gap.

CGC is not a newly formed company, and neither was Marvel, so comparing it to a startup is a false equivalency. 

Also, comparing CGC to Marvel is another false equivalency. Marvel was on the verge of collapse when Mr. Arad helped turn it around. CGC is very behind on turnaround times and has some serious quality control issues, but is nowhere near the state Marvel was in. CGC is booming right now.

So your comments make no sense in response to me.

But, I'm done here and moving on from this part of the discussion. 

Again, you are picking up on all the wrong things. CCG is a company founded by visionaries who transformed the industry but don't have a clue how to run a large operation. The business clearly got away on them. That's what I'm talking about. RARE is the visionary who can transform themselves into a successful operator of a complex business.

On 7/3/2021 at 7:46 PM, D84 said:

After 20 years, they are no longer a startup.

They act like it. And the business has all the earmarks of a vision that was executed, grew like hell, but outgrew its founders.

We all know that CCG operational management sucks. My modern grade with pressing will probably have a 10 month turnaround. That's really just unacceptable as a business model. 

So change has gotta be a good thing here, right?

I am hoping Blackstone will bring in someone who can manage the business efficiently. It's pretty clear to me that the business got away from the current management team. 

This is VERY common in startups. The entrepreneur has the vision, starts the business, and the business grows like crazy because it was so transformative for the industry. But MOST entrepreneurs CANNOT run a big business. By nature they are not logistics professionals, or industrial engineers. They are visionaries. 

It makes sense to pass on the company to people who can run it like a business. Let's hope Blackstone has those people and that commitment.

Around a thousand, 130 of which are slabbed. Down from around 5,000 several years ago and 15,000 in the 80's. I've never sold a single comic, always traded volume for quality. Dates range from 1941 to 1987. Includes 80 pristine Canadian Price Variants mainly in ASM, Swamp Thing and Thor, 15 of which are being slabbed now. My goal is to have fewer than 500, maybe even less, but I plan to stick to the same playbook of trading volume for quality. 

No color breaks are noted

It was a full Standard Press. $60. Moderate spine stress?

I ordered a Standard pressing and a Standard Grading for ASM 14. Here are the graders' notes:

light staining to cover
light tanning interior back cover
light tanning interior front cover
moderate creasing to cover
moderate spine stress lines to cover

I get the staining and tanning, but is the moderate creasing not the type of thing a standard pressing is meant to remove?

Basically: "our service has been terrible, so we're raising prices to compensate"

Can you upgrade to fast track after the item is received?

Modern with quick press, delivered Feb 22 STILL not received March 11.

It seems to me with these wait times, CGC just asking for more competition.

100 days to turn around a book invites people to try a different service. Why is their service volume not scalable?