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Unca Ben
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Posts posted by Unca Ben
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On 3/11/2024 at 9:43 AM, westform said:
So, my last two OA deals with Europe. 1st one shipped from Germany (dhl then via usps) lost! 2nd one shipped by me to Belgium (usps then via fedex) lost! 2 for 2 lost! I have never before had a package lost to or from overseas in 30 years of collecting. What gives? Are others experiencing a breakdown of these systems?
I had a package hit customs in SF and then sit there for about a month (I guess it sat there) I did the usual reports and inquiries. finally it broke loose and made it to Europe in less than a week. This was USPS.
had a couple other packages get delayed 2-3-4 weeks with no tracking updates but they did finally make it to their European destinations. I think one was going on 5-6 weeks. USPS.Now I use FedEx International 2 day shipping. costs more but worth the piece of mind. Nothing delayed or lost, so far (knock wood) .
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I was thinking about the oft-used canard that without Jack or Steve, Stan Lee never created anything worthwhile, successful, or of note.
Off the top of my head, here's a few characters created or co-created by Stan, sans Ditko or Kirby:
The Black Widow, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), Mephisto, the Mandarin, Ultimo, the Melter, Crimson Dynamo, the Unicorn, Titanium Man, Whiplash, the Kingpin, the Rhino, the Badoon, the Shocker, the Owl, Purple Man, Mr. Fear, the Beetle, the Masked Marauder, Jester, Count Nefaria, the Swordsman, Power Man, the Cobra, Mr. Hyde, Black Knight, the Mimic, the Sons of the Serpent, the Living Laser, the Abomination, Living Tribunal.
Boy, if Stan ever did create anything worthwhile, imagine the list!
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On 5/3/2022 at 10:31 PM, Joshua33 said:
I'd argue that Neal did it better, regardless of layout. You know... the jumping off the page thing.
I'd say that it was Kirby who pioneered the dynamic foreshortening and characters breaking thru panel boundaries in comic books.
Adams (like so many others) followed suit.
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On 3/10/2024 at 8:42 PM, Hepcat said:Ahhhhh, but you're now speaking as just some other old guy. Were you an eleven year old in 1963 reading Amazing Spider-Man?
I was born in '56. The first ASM I bought off the stands was #24, so I was 8 in early '65. I also bought Avengers #15 that same month and I already had a couple earlier Marvel books. I really liked the stories and writing compared to the DC's I had (Superman, Flash, Atom, GL, Detective etc.).
The dialogue was better in Marvel books. Not a "Great Scott", *CHOKE*, or a *GROAN* among them. I did enjoy the DC WAR books, however.
While Lois Lane was still trying to trap Superman into marriage much less figure out his secret identity (and ending up over Superman's knee getting a spanking), Captain America was engaged in a dramatic fight to the death with Zemo to avenge Bucky's death.
While the JLA (or JSA actually) was fighting Johnny Thunder's magical Thunderbolt, "say you", the FF were dealing with the betrayal of an emotionally damaged Ben Grimm in the thrall of the Wizard and the evil FF, the Frightful Four.Way more interesting stories and characterization, for me. When reading JLA, the tail of the word balloons would often be needed to indicate who said what. Batman's, Superman's, Green Lantern's, etc., vocabulary was interchangeable. I would never confuse Reed Richard's dialogue with Ben Grimm's or the Torch's. No word balloon tail needed.
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On 3/9/2024 at 8:27 PM, Hepcat said:
As a kid back in 1961-65 I didn't want my heroes to be neurotic. I found the neuroticism of the Marvel characters silly because it was distracting from the plot. Yes, yes, I know such neuroticism was lionized in magazine articles but those articles were written by old fogeys not kids.
And see, I liked the problems pestering Peter in ASM. Aunt May's health, trouble paying the bills, Flash, JJJ, Betty Brant's intense dislike of Spider-Man, guilt over Uncle Ben (the last of which I believe Ditko addressed in the Master Planner trilogy and would have had that particular monkey off Peter's back had Ditko continued the series). In fact when I re-read the Ditko/Romita run, on occasion I find myself skipping thru the battle scenes and focusing more on the stuff about Peter's private life. I find it fascinating. Always did.
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On 3/9/2024 at 7:04 PM, BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES said:
A look at Spider-man 38 shows the divide between their views. Ditko drew it in late 1965 with no input from Stan. It contains a sequence wherein Peter confronts student protesters who behave like sneering brats and Peter seethes because he'd like to thrash them, later Lee and Romita did a similar sequence in 1968, and Peter is much more sympathetic to the protesters.
That would have been another one of my points if I weren't aiming for brevity
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… and these are not my words, not my spin on what went on back then. These words are directly from Stan and Steve with no interpretation necessary from me, to make some imagined point. (You know, make a conclusion and only search for the evidence that may be interpreted to bolster that opinion.)
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On 3/9/2024 at 10:38 AM, BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES said:Reading typical quotes from Stan during this era, you can imagine he's wearing love beads and a peace symbol necklace while "Revolution" plays in the BG
"We try to make our heroes not all good and our villains not all bad."
Now let's compare this to Ditko's Mr. A , who first appeared in 1967. Sometimes the answer to a question is right in front of us. (re: what were the conflicts between Ditko and Stan when Ditko left Marvel)
"That fool thinks there is a middle of the road between good and evil, that he can have the advantages of both sides..."
In another of Ditko's essays he mentions that "a hero cannot be neurotic."
… so here we have the two guys responsible for what is becoming one of the most popular super heroes, and their ideas of good and bad and of the characteristics of a hero could not be further apart.
-just a thought.
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On 3/3/2024 at 5:27 PM, glendgold said:Every time I think I've excavated all that there is, turns out there's just a little tiny bit more hiding in plain sight.
So this is the production art for the poster. As per the listing, "This specific image was created from a 18" tall stat of the base art image that was then altered with original art shading, and white paint art corrections/alterations on his face." In B&W it looks like this, which I think gives more clues as to the poster's artist. I am reallly curious what was going on with those lips.
That would be the second poster. The one that had an existing image that was "updated" like the other 7 MMMS posters. It was about 3 feet tall, Half-size of the door poster, but I have seen a 6-foot door poster version of this. I've attributed these reworked posters to Marie Severin.
Nice find!
I do still have the Hulk poster. This poster also had a couple of different printings.
Mine. The original. I believe this was printed by itself, before the MMMs set. (that's a guess)
In the detail pic, Notice the copyright on lower right corner (and the sticker from the place in New Orleans where I bought it)
Then there's the dayglo version:
Then there's another later printing by Personality posters. Different copyright typeset than mine.
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That. is. gorgeous.
I think I'm going to cry …
Side note: A pretty nice example of this poster is in an upcoming Heritage auction. -
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On 3/2/2024 at 4:18 AM, grapeape said:Excellent case made here. Your logic is sound. This is a special piece no doubt. My brother has the 6ft poster and I can see it. If only Stan were around to confirm it. If I could afford the piece at auction I would give my....ahhhh, Uncle Ben, you're a brave man then ole grapeape.
I'm jealous of your brother.
I got this poster in third grade and it resided on my bedroom wall until I moved out and then it graced my first couple bachelor pads until it found its way - creased and somewhat torn - rolled up in my closet. But I stared at his thing in admiration every day for over 15 years so it was easy for me to recognize the pin up as the Spidey poster as soon as I saw it in this thread.
I recall bringing this poster to show and tell in 3rd grade.
It is truly iconic of the innovations by Marvel Comics at the time.In 1965, who would have thought of a (relatively) slightly-known but ever growing-in-popularity Super Hero 6-foot wall poster? And it's unique in its own way - the thick paper stock and almost chalky thick inks that brought a special "smell" to the poster when it was new- way different than other posters. If you've been around one in person you know what I mean.
It truly cemented my interest in Marvel Comics - I had been regularly reading them for 5-6 months as best I could (no store nearby that I could patronize on my own - I had to buy my comics when accompanying my parents shopping).
But to be introduced to Marvel during those months with Spidey and JJJ's robot and Mysterio and the Crime Master and the Green Goblin, and FF fighting the evil FF with the Thing's betrayal and Reed and Sue's Wedding and the intro of the Inhumans, while the X-Men were fighting the Juggernaut for the first time then the Sentinels, and Thor up against the Destroyer and then Absorbing Man, and The Avengers and the Swordsman, and Iron Man vs Titanium Man, and Capt. America and the Red Skull, and the Sub-Mariner on his quest, and S.H.I.E.L.D. …
Man, what a time to really enter comics.
And this Spidey poster symbolizes that for me. So I'm a bit biased. (which means I should fit in rather well around here).
- davidtere, Sideshow Bob, Kevn and 5 others
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On 3/2/2024 at 2:40 AM, The Voord said:
Absolutely, and good to see someone else paying close attention to what should be oh-so-obvious! Once you've done your homework and come to the realization that Ditko's original drawing served as the basis (in altered format) for the single-figure poster and Marvel Super Heroes group shot . . . it's probably one of the most iconic images of Spidey ever seen.
Published as originally illustrated, no.
Published in altered format, yes
Definitely of its era, how can anyone claim otherwise, lol!.
Oh, and I don't see this as being some kind of rejected (alternative) art for the ASM #3 pin-up that Mandel owns. You just have to see the way Ditko inked Spidey's webbing in the early issues with thicker line-work in particular.. The webbing became more delicately-inked later on in the run.
Yeah. His drawing style on Spider-Man was much different from ish 3 to issue 28 or 30 ( or thereabouts when this poster was first mentioned as a "mystery mailing tube" on the Bullpen Bulletins page).
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On 2/23/2024 at 5:08 PM, The Voord said:For those struggling to compare . . . looks like they re-jigged Spidey's limbs, otherwise quite close.
Personally, I'd class the Spidey pin-up as published (in altered format).
This.
I think this pinup is the original drawing that ended up being the 6 foot poster. Either Ditko himself reworked the drawing or it was done in production. Ditko could have light boxed the original and made the adjustments, or a photostat could have been cut and pasted to achieve the final composition.
I submit that they are too similar to be coincidence.
If the pinup is rotated about 20-some degrees to the left and a vertical line bisects the figure we can make some observations on both compositions.
Ignore the left leg and the right arm just for a moment.
The line bisects the face the same. it brushed up against the tips of the legs of the chest spider-symbol the same. it goes thru just left of the crotch the same. The space between the line and the left thumb is the same. the space between the line and the right foot is the same. Think "negative space". The two negative spaces created by the bisecting line in the lower half of the figure are exactly the same. The webbing thru the face, torso, belt, left arm, right boot are exact. Muscles in the chest left arm and right leg are the same. The right underarm spotted black could have been whited out or ignored on the new light boxed drawing.
Once again, the compositions and details are just too similar to be coincidence so I submit this is the original drawing (or the "original" original drawing) for the famous 6 foot pinup. If my observations prove to be correct and I were the seller, I'd really want this stuff to be mentioned.
Has anyone ever seen the drawing for the 6 foot pin up? I'd be willing to bet that it is either: a cut and pasted Photostatted version of this pin-up, or a second drawing that was light boxed from the first.
- Twanj, delekkerste, The Voord and 3 others
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On 2/26/2024 at 5:18 AM, FlyingDonut said:
Who cares? He did. It is amazing any of us have children.
Whoa there, hoss. I started this as a fun thread, while defending Stan from the outrage journalism propaganda that gets tossed around. It's not that serious (hence the What If: scenario). Folks sure like any excuse to insult around here.
Speaking of children that's not very adult.
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dinner time and then a movie, it's been a slice, prince namor. take care.
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On 2/23/2024 at 6:27 PM, Prince Namor said:
Both are examples of affirmation. You just used it to try and put legitimacy to Stan's appeal (which isn't even in question) and I used it to show that a REAL writer, knows and understands real WRITING when he sees it, better than... a Stan Lee apologist.
Nope. i didn't say that stan reached the masses thru pop culture because the villiage voice said so. that would be an attempt at appealing to authority.
and i didn't put the village voice as having a better (more of an authority - get it?) opinion than say, the eye magazine or college campus newsletters (the other examples i listed).
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On 2/23/2024 at 6:25 PM, Prince Namor said:
Were they rejected pages? Did Stan decide Ditko was the right guy for the job? (Even though he clearly WAS). Or did Stan see Kirby's involvement in both the Spider-man idea with Joe Simon, as well as his involvement with Joe Simon on the Fly at Archie as a possible legal issue and THAT was the reason he gave it to Ditko...
From Ditko:
Stan never told me who came up with the idea for SM or for the SM story Kirby was penciling. Stan did tell me SM was a teenager who had a magic ring that transformed him into an adult hero: SM.
I told Stan it sounded like Joe Simon's character, The Fly (1959), that Kirby had some hand in, for Archie Comics. Now here is a Fly/Spider connection. Not in any seeing a fly on a wall but in being told, in hearing, of the connection. And to paraphrase Stan, this connection "may even be the true one" and the other, of seeing a fly on a wall and of someone being transformed from an adult SM (Kirby/? version) into a teenage SM (Lee/Ditko version) and without any magic ring, a falsehood.
Stan called Jack about The Fly. I don't know what was said in that call.
Day(s) later, Stan told me we would be doing SM. I would be pencilling the story panel breakdowns from Stan's synopsis and doing the inking.
Kirby's five pencilled SM story/art pages were rejected. Out went the magic ring, adult SM and whatever legend ideas that SM story would have contained.
which is all from the article that i quoted. so i know.
the point is, as this clearly states and as i originally said in my first post, spider-man would have been a rehash of the fly if stan hadn't given the job to ditko.
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On 2/23/2024 at 6:19 PM, Prince Namor said:
I quote one of the most famous sci-fi writers and you quote 'an actor' to defend Stan. Sums it up.
appeal to authority? nice.
- I like pie and jimjum12
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On 2/23/2024 at 6:18 PM, Prince Namor said:
Which part isn't true? Are you saying 1953 in the Comic Book world was the same as 1955 after the Wertham hearings? Let's be clear on what facts you think I got wrong here, because I DIDN'T.
i talked about stans success thru the 50's. which then includes post wertham.
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On 2/23/2024 at 6:15 PM, Prince Namor said:
Ditko clearly stated he was doing work he wasn't credited for. That the working arrangement had changed. And that, with Annual #2, was when he decided to quit.
He did not specifically mention pay. But when you're doing the other person's work, you're NOT getting paid for it.
Stan WAS getting paid for writing the ASM and Dr. Strange. $15 a page ($142 per page adjusted for inflation), to take a completed story and add dialogue.
take it up with ditko. i'm just repeating what he has said. the reason that he left marvel is known only to him and stan. the only money gripe he had was royalties with goodman.
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On 2/23/2024 at 6:01 PM, Prince Namor said:
I know Stan Lee Marvel readers need their hands held through the puzzling idea (to them) of sequential art, to be told exactly what is happening in pictures that clearly explain it, but this is a pretty easy 'written word' mystery to figure out:
"Dear Editor:"
Ah. more insults. it begins.
Speaking of children that's not very adult.
I quote one of the most famous sci-fi writers and you quote 'an actor' to defend Stan. Sums it up.
Horribly shipping oa!
in Original Comic Art
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I think one of the things is that when I ship using USPS, it gets handed off to a different carrier when it gets to the destination country and the different carrier depends on which country.
I believe FedEx handles it all the way thru. So FedEx is solely responsible for the entire delivery where the other way 'round can become a game of hot potato if something goes wrong. Also, FedEx has it's own customs (?) which simplifies things.
If any of this is wrong, please let me know.