On Probation for Selling Comics?????????????????????

[comicwiz]

They say when the cauldron comes to a boil, all the scum rises to the top. None more clearer an example than when the State of Texas, and its Supreme court decided to prosecute Jesus Castillo, a Dallas comic store clerk who was arrested, charged and placed on probation (as well as being fined US $4000) for selling an "adult-oriented" comic, to an adult undercover police officer.

 

Earlier last month, the Supreme Court denied Castillo's appeal.

 

DAM straight; David, this is where I want all proceeds raised (from my auctions) to go towards:

 

Jesus Castillo: On Probation for selling comics

 

Interview with CBLDF Executive Director Charles Brownstein

 

Supreme Court Denies Castillo's Appeal

 

I'll leave my opinions to simmer, while fielding the question to the forum -- what do you guys think of all of this? Over the top? Politically motivated? Perhaps a little of both? Does this scream out to you that the state of Texas in badly in need of a law reform?

[Darthdiesel]

They repeal the anti-sodomy law, yet they persecute a comic book seller for selling an adult oriented book to an adult?

 

Methinks, Texas (govt) needs a re-examination of conscience and priority and long overdue for moral upheaval...

[Foolkiller]

I'm not surprised that the U.S. Supreme Court decided not to hear the case, fundamentally, there isn't anything there that they would want to delve into, nor is the case something they were probably looking to address during their past term.

 

The Texas Supreme Court apparently upheld the decision, but the state of Texas, not any Court is the prosecutor. Having your funds go to the CBDLF is a good idea, but not for this specific case, cause it's over, there's no where else for it to go.

 

The prosecutor did what any prosecutor or attorney would do in closing, leveraged what the common feelings of the jury would be in any case concerning children and children's sensibilities, especially in a state like texas. Part of the problem is the volume of testimony the defense did present. 5 days? for this case? Too much. The jury probably got bored and started tuning it out, and when push came to shove, they heard the close and went with it. It's hard to convince a jury (why this wasn't a bench trial, I don't know) that selling x-rated comics in view of kids as being a good thing. I think it should not have resulted in a criminal conviction, but stranger things have happened, and apparently did here. Hopefully, the defense did address the whole issue of children and their ability to access the material in their close, and should have taken some of the steam from the prosecution early on. Judge's instructions or no, they should have seen it coming.

 

Either way, this was an issue where to me, the prosecution looks to be somewhat politically motivated, but without being in that office, it's impossible to say.

[comicwiz]

Methinks, Texas (govt) needs a re-examination of conscience and priority and long overdue for moral upheaval...

 

Hear ye; hear ye!!

[comicwiz]

foolkiller

 

You raise the similar points that have surrounded the controversy of this case; a number of which I tend to agree.

 

How do you feel about the State Prosecutors closing arguments?

 

“I don’t care what type of evidence or what type of testimony is out there, use your rationality, use your common sense. Comic books, traditionally what we think of, are for kids. This is in a store directly across from an elementary school and it is put in a medium, in a forum, to directly appeal to kids. That is why we are here, ladies and gentlemen. … We’re here to get this off the shelf.”

[comicwiz]

Having your funds go to the CBDLF is a good idea, but not for this specific case, cause it's over, there's no where else for it to go.

 

Although it doesn't appear from the way I worded it, I actually meant the CBLDF as a whole, and not specifically this case.

[Foolkiller]

the last part of the comments "we're here to get this off the shelf" is gotta be playing to your jurisdiction and jury pool... because many places... that wouldn't fly.

 

I don't like this all that much, but unfortunately, different states have differing opinions about this sort of thing.

[OldGuy]

Another thread with some past input FWIW.

[comicwiz]

the last part of the comments "we're here to get this off the shelf" is gotta be playing to your jurisdiction and jury pool... because many places... that wouldn't fly.

 

Mindreader!

 

I don't like this all that much, but unfortunately, different states have differing opinions about this sort of thing.

 

First Ammendment rights were meant to account for that disparity, at least at a political and judicial level. If neither the judge nor the jury recognizes the inexorable rights of Jesus Castillo, and failed to address it in this case, then this is nothing more than an attack on civil liberties, which rests itself primarly on appeasing a fashionable election climate.

[comicwiz]

Another thread with some past input FWIW.

 

Thanks OldGuy. I didn't realize this issue was raised before on the forum. At the risk of rehashing a topic, I'd like to get more peoples input on the issue as I don't think this is one case that should be out-of-sight, and out-of-mind.

[joe_collector]

I think anybody that sells new books should be imprisoned.

 

On a serious note, did the guy ask the police officer for ID to prove his age? I know up here that if you get caught for selling alcohol or cigarettes to an undercover cop, you had better ask for ID, no matter if he looks "around 25".

[comicwiz]

I think anybody that sells new books should be imprisoned.

 

[comicwiz]

On a serious note, did the guy ask the police officer for ID to prove his age? I know up here that if you get caught for selling alcohol or cigarettes to an undercover cop, you had better ask for ID, no matter if he looks "around 25".

 

That scenario hadn't occured to me until now...

 

A bit of an assumption on my part; but assuming there aren't any cops who would be minors, I think that is pretty safe to say that it should be a judgement call a store clerk ought to be able to make. I can certainly see the issue here in Canada with selling cigarettes and alcohol to a minor. But in the US... I don't know. I mean your talking about a state (Texas) where you can get into an argument in aisle 5 over the last Playstation 2 on December 24th, and walk over to aisle 9 in the gun dept to settle that same argument.

 

If I remember correctly, the case sites that Kieth Comics had material behind the counter for which ID was required. I'm not sure about the particular circumstance surrounding the arrest, and events that took place the day the comic was sold to the undercover officer, but the clincher that indicates to me that they were going to make a case of Keith's Comics is the fact that they were investigating the store prior to the arrest.

[joe_collector]

That scenario hadn't occured to me until now...

 

First off, you've got to realize that these comic sites are extremely biased and will never tell you the full story. It was pretty apparent when the only dissenting judge did so because the seller "may not have had knowledge of the contents of the comic".

 

I may not agree with the law, but it's pretty obvious he broke it.

 

From what I can see, the cops were casing the joint, sent in some Johnny Depp/21 Jump Street guy with a skateboard. He picked up the porno comic, brought it to counter and the clerk took his money.

 

No way he carded him, and using the old excuse of "but he was an adult" holds no water, since the immediate question posed is "How exactly did you know this?" and "Do you realize it's mandatory to check for ID?". This excuse never works for anyone and it won't work here.

 

Then if it was TV, they'd trot out a selection of 17-20 year olds (hand picked to not look their age) and have the clerk pick the adults out from the line-up.

[OldGuy]

Another thread with some past input FWIW.

 

Thanks OldGuy. I didn't realize this issue was raised before on the forum. At the risk of rehashing a topic, I'd like to get more peoples input on the issue as I don't think this is one case that should be out-of-sight, and out-of-mind.

 

Oh, by all means. I was disappointed in the participation in the other thread so I'm glad to see it brought up again with updated info.

 

I was only pointing out the other thread so you could see what had been said here to this point, little though it may be.

[Arty]

This sounds like a really bad joke but it isn't

 

Insane...

 

[brian1227]

foolkiller

 

You raise the similar points that have surrounded the controversy of this case; a number of which I tend to agree.

 

How do you feel about the State Prosecutors closing arguments?

 

“I don’t care what type of evidence or what type of testimony is out there, use your rationality, use your common sense. Comic books, traditionally what we think of, are for kids. This is in a store directly across from an elementary school and it is put in a medium, in a forum, to directly appeal to kids. That is why we are here, ladies and gentlemen. … We’re here to get this off the shelf.”

 

That's really a crock. Comics aren't really for kids anymore, at least not specifically. The guy didn't sell the book to someone underage....I wonder what his reaction would have been had some 15 year old, pimple faced kid tried to buy it, and whether this book (I don't know which book it is) was in an adult section of the store. Alot of posters here talk about Eerie and Creepy, the Warren horror magazines which I was addicted to as a kid. Remember the original Vampirella sister publication? That book showed topless Amazonian women, which I could truly appreciate when I was ten years old. So far as I know, no one was ever prosecuted for selling those books to me.

[Foolkiller]

You're thinking about this as a comic book fan who knows a lot about comics, not someone who knows nothing about comics or very little. The jurors, as most people do, think comics=kids. It's the way it is outside our very small hobby.

[Mushroom]

Let's hope they are not selling pre code GA books to minors down in Texas they might all get arrested.

 

Jail sentence...the ultimate Comic Code Authority.

 

 

[comicwiz]

Oh, by all means. I was disappointed in the participation in the other thread so I'm glad to see it brought up again with updated info.

 

I was only pointing out the other thread so you could see what had been said here to this point, little though it may be.

 

Thanks OldGuy

 

My feeling after reading more on this topic is that the outcome may have been very different if this story had recieved national attention.