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CGC's Qualified Grading is Catching On!

Started by joe_collector,

39 posts in this topic

joe_collector

joe_collector

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It looks like CGC is having its desired effect on the grading community:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2191612285&category=33816

 

"The only main issue with this comic is the inside marvel stamp has been cut out. This is what causes the grade of the comic from being an 8 or so to an 6-7."

 

Hey buddy, why not rip 10 pages out and submit??? 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

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comicwiz

comicwiz

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With all the negative adversity you've thrown against the qualified grade, does the purchase of this book make someone a insufficiently_thoughtful_person or a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person? I'd love to hear some comic knowledge used in your analysis, rather than the throw-down you've demonstrated -- specifically in relation to the Qualified CGC grade -- over the past week or so, since you've returned.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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With all the negative adversity you've thrown against the qualified grade, does the purchase of this book make someone a insufficiently_thoughtful_person or a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person?

 

What are you talking about? That book got a Qualified due to a signature on the cover, which contravenes CGC's Signature Series, right?

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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I think the Green Label, as I understand it from Steve, is a necessary evil for an EXTREMELY LIMITED number of books. The "clipped MVS, but does not affect story" is a good example, as is a detached centerfold or staple.

 

In each of these examples,the book/cover/story is complete, but one major flaw holds it back. I don't particularly like it, but I do see some market need for it.

 

But once we get into half-books with serious damage that goes far beyond the above guidelines, then it becomes an abuse of power. CGC is trying their best to market these books (and receive more subs) through a highly deceptive mis-use of the Qualified label.

 

Once we assign 10 MISSING PAGES as a single defect, it becomes virtually impossible to understand the logic behind the Qualified grade. All bets are off, and at that point, 1/2 of a NM+ cover getting a CGC 9.8 Q is a possibility.

 

As for the Qualified due to Signatures BS, it's a scam. A kid can scrawl his name is pen on the front cover and under the current procedure, it would get a Universal and the writing will not even be noted on the label. It's the same with written initials, codes, or anything scrawled by a regular collector/reader.

 

But once CGC receives a comic with what they think is a Pro's name, it's automatically Qualified? Why should it matter if Stan Lee or Stan Pee put their name on it, and why should one get a Qualified and the other a Universal? It's also a Universal if the Pro's sig is on the inside of the book. CGC states that they can't certify pro sigs, but they never did that previously, so why the change?

 

The change in process happened immediately after the Signature Series debuted, and it seems to be a business policy to give Qualified grades to comics with (what CGC sees as) a Pro's signature. I personally don't see the difference, and it's a defect whether Stan Lee or Stan Pee scrawled their name on it.

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comicwiz

comicwiz

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I think the Green Label, as I understand it from Steve, is a necessary evil for an EXTREMELY LIMITED number of books. The "clipped MVS, but does not affect story" is a good example, as is a detached centerfold or staple.

 

In each of these examples,the book/cover/story is complete, but one major flaw holds it back. I don't particularly like it, but I do see some market need for it.

 

I agree, particularly with the last point.

 

But once we get into half-books with serious damage that goes far beyond the above guidelines, then it becomes an abuse of power. CGC is trying their best to market these books (and receive more subs) through a highly deceptive mis-use of the Qualified label.

 

Once we assign 10 MISSING PAGES as a single defect, it becomes virtually impossible to understand the logic behind the Qualified grade. All bets are off, and at that point, 1/2 of a NM+ cover getting a CGC 9.8 Q is a possibility.

 

I think we can agree to disagree here, but you do pose a vaild point.

 

As for the Qualified due to Signatures BS, it's a scam. A kid can scrawl his name is pen on the front cover and under the current procedure, it would get a Universal and the writing will not even be noted on the label. It's the same with written initials, codes, or anything scrawled by a regular collector/reader.

 

But once CGC receives a comic with what they think is a Pro's name, it's automatically Qualified? Why should it matter if Stan Lee or Stan Pee put their name on it, and why should one get a Qualified and the other a Universal? It's also a Universal if the Pro's sig is on the inside of the book. CGC states that they can't certify pro sigs, but they never did that previously, so why the change?

 

Fundamentally speaking, a telephone number or the name of the previous owner does not warrant a Qualified grade, but a signature from the original creator does: I too have a problem with this position in principle, but completely understand the dangers in authentication, and see how confusion might arise when someone makes the connection between an authentic signature, and a blue label. Especially a newbie not familiar with the colour codes of the labels themselves.(Odin88, are you serious about your Romita blue label)?

 

One more for ya; ; and then I'll lay down a few of my own opinions.

 

Oh, and it may be worthwile review the write up on this one.

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garthgantu

garthgantu

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Is it really an issue of CGC being unable or unwilling to verify signatures on books, when the signature was written outside of CGC's purview, versus the fact that not placing such books in Qualified holders would undermine the whole Signature Series concept?

 

CGC can detect the most minute restoration, damage, defects, etc., but they can't verify signatures? Seems like an autograph expert could do so in about 2 minutes per book... but unless the book was signed while CGC watched, it can't be authenticated... sigh...

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

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Garth - it is because master forgers can replicate signatures with such ease and the value assigned to the comic relative to the degree of celebrity that CGC is wise not to recognize signatures without provenance. They open themselves up to a world of hurt in liability and lawsuits if they chose to start acknowledging non Sig Series signatures.

 

I'm sure signature authenticators don't come cheap either so that would not be a good business move.

 

I can see other more plausible reasons for not authenticating signatures, than "not wanting to undermine the Sig Series Yellow label" concept.

 

 

 

 

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Is it really an issue of CGC being unable or unwilling to verify signatures on books, when the signature was written outside of CGC's purview, versus the fact that not placing such books in Qualified holders would undermine the whole Signature Series concept?

 

I'll take the last answer for $1,000 Alex.

 

The key is that pre-Sig Series, CGC happily slabbed these books and treated a Stan Lee written on the cover the same as Stan Pee. Writin' is writin' and it was noted on the label. No verification, no certification, just a note of a bunch of letters.

 

Suddenly when CGC got into the Signature Verification business, these comics were deemed unworthy of a Universal slab and sent packng to the Qualified compound.

 

It all depended on when you sent the book in.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Oh and to support my point...Signed DF books were getting Green Labels consistently before the Yellow label was even a CGC concept. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I don't think that's true at all. The DF books with the sketch, serial-numbered lithograph BS was a Qualified and should be. But I don't remember a straight signature (with nothing else) gettng a Green label early on.

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comicwiz

comicwiz

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garthgantu

 

I guess my last example was too much of a stumper that no one commented.

 

Is it really an issue of CGC being unable or unwilling to verify signatures on books, when the signature was written outside of CGC's purview, versus the fact that not placing such books in Qualified holders would undermine the whole Signature Series concept?

 

This is sort of like saying Tide, although spending millions on it new and improved detergent, should still worship its old detergent as much. Wouldn't make good business sense, after tapping in all that money into the new detergent, to continue with a cross-brand formula. Not even that "original" marketing strategy seems to work for every company. People will always relate to advancement and improvement better than old dingy product. So yes, I agree with your point, and I also think there is nothing wrong with making a decision like CGC did, as it would ultimately further the companies relative success with their SS product and service.

 

When I used the Fed's N Heads example, I meant to show that the green label impacted the actual premium of a first printing book of such a rarity, in hyper-high grade. I'm sure the consigner was hoping for more. As a buyer, it made me happy, and I looked beyond the green label, and I'm very glad I did.

 

As for the Snatch Comics 1, here is an example of a book that actually may have commanded more money had it been slabbed. Granted, the sticker price would have surely given it a green label, I KNOW that what really impacted that books yield was that in the back of people's minds, they were questioning the brutal manual trim job on the comic, and wondering -- will this book actually fetch a NM 9.4? So instead the consigner turned a blind eye to the notion of getting it graded -- WHAT; grade this copy to get a green label?

 

Had that book been graded, and came back the NM 9.4 grade it surely would have recieved, it may well have attained its deserved value. A couple of other incidentals; there are actually only 300 copies (not 800 as mentioned in the description), and although finding a copy WITHOUT the sticker is much rarer and much more valuable, that copy could easily fetch about US $3500 raw.

 

So here are two examples where a Qualified green label impacted for better and for worse.

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sborock

sborock

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"I don't think that's true at all."

 

IT IS.

 

So what was the reason you singled out "signed-only" DF books, and let the other autographed issues slide by, in the era previous to the Sig Series?

 

I am not sure I understand what you are asking, can you show me? Thanks.

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