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Ethics, Experience & Education Worth Anything?

Started by PovertyRow,

81 posts in this topic

PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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Well, I have calculated that I have invested approximately 12,045 HOURS in book-learning about comics. That is based on a conservative average of 1 1/2 hours a day (547.5 hours a year) for 22 years (16,060) simply reading the OS guides, the grading guides, fanzines and various books. This does NOT include the thousands of hours I have spent examining books, attending shows and flea markets, studying books on restoration and spending time at a restorer's lab, and doing my Frankensteininian experiments in restoration. I figure a safe bet is probably about 16,000 hours in pure education (on the conservative side.)

 

Now what are the ethics involved in a flea market, yard sale, someone taking a suite of books to a dealer who offers too little and they are offered to you, etc?

 

If I buy a book much cheaper than its "value", am I taking advantage of someone else or am I taking advantage of the tens of thousands of hours and the thousands of dollars I have invested in education, materials like airburshes, fine art brushes, various pigments, a dry mount press, rolls of insanely expensive silicon release paper, paper heat setters, cold presses, black lights and the like?

 

Am I also a human being, but one who has decided to make a genuine study of a topic? And what happens when THAT human being meets someone who doesn't care enough to even pursue the things they are trying to sell? Is this stranger suddenly my best friend? I know absolutely nothing about them. For all I know they could be hoarding body parts in their freezer.

 

The whole "ethics" question is an absurdity. It is an absurdity because it assumes two things: that the person selling the book is a saint and the person buying the book had best respect that sainthood.

 

To quote Bela Lugosi in BRIDE OF THE MONSTER, "That is all."

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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And what happens when THAT human being meets someone who doesn't care enough to even pursue the things they are trying to sell?

 

Even you must see the obvious negative connotations you place on these sellers.

 

Just because you have more knowledge or are smarter and can take advantage of a seller, doesn't give you the right to. With great power comes great responsibility.

 

To paraphrase Ben Parker.

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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To paraphrase Ben Parker.

 

I really do not care what Ben Parker thinks. He has no say here. I want to hear real ideas from real people, formulated in THEIR OWN MINDS AND HEARTS. Not some pablum doled out for the masses. Individuality - if ever there was a topic that called for individual thinking, Ethics is it.

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

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To paraphrase Ben Parker.

 

I really do not care what Ben Parker thinks. He has no say here. I want to hear real ideas from real people, formulated in THEIR OWN MINDS AND HEARTS. Not some pablum doled out for the masses. Individuality - if ever there was a topic that called for individual thinking, Ethics is it.

 

Ben Parker isn't a real person. Therefore, Ben Parker cannot think. grin.gif

 

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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To paraphrase Ben Parker.

 

I really do not care what Ben Parker thinks. He has no say here. I want to hear real ideas from real people, formulated in THEIR OWN MINDS AND HEARTS. Not some pablum doled out for the masses. Individuality - if ever there was a topic that called for individual thinking, Ethics is it.

 

Ben Parker isn't a real person. Therefore, Ben Parker cannot think. grin.gif

 

Dang you're good! grin.gif

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PedigreeMan

PedigreeMan

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I really do not care what Ben Parker thinks. He has no say here. I want to hear real ideas from real people, formulated in THEIR OWN MINDS AND HEARTS.

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for JC to answer this one. You'll end up looking like something out of your pre-code horror mags! insane.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Don't hold your breath waiting for JC to answer this one. You'll end up looking like something out of your pre-code horror mags! insane.gif

 

What is your problem? You've been acting like a tool for a bit now, saying nothing, doing nothing and contributing nothing, yet following me around like a puppy dog while spouting on with some bizarre agenda.

 

Are you apprenticing under Bug? And yes, I said UNDER Bug.

 

And if you geniuses think that Stan Lee actually thought up a new "moral code" with his "with great power..." speech, then you need to get out more and read some books without pictures.

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buena_vista

buena_vista

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Poverty, you're obviously a intellegent person and you sort of asked and anwsered your own question by putting the word "value" in quotes. A comic book unto itself is practically worthless. Just the paper it's printed on. Tomorrow, that might be true for any given book you buy. It is just worth what us collectors are willing to pay for it. For the most part, the quality of the actual artwork and story in the book has nothing to do with the value.

 

Where you're completely wrong is your concept of investing and what an investment is in the first place. I seriously doubt you put your bazillion hours into comics purely to make money. That's what an investment is, at the end of the day.

You spend money (and take a certain degree of risk) on a commodity to end up with something that you can then sell at a higer price than what you bought it for.

 

You didn't invest your time --- comics are your hobby and you derive something more than just financial gain. That value is not calculated in dollars or cents.

 

Are you taking advantage of a seller if you find an Action #1 at a flea market for $20? Of course not. If the seller really cared about the book and thought it might be worth serious change, he would have looked into it. If you give the seller the $20, you've done your part. It's not as if you stole it.

 

Your hobby might pay off --- but that not unethical.

 

sign-rantpost.gif

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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What is your problem? You've been acting like a tool for a bit now, saying nothing, doing nothing and contributing nothing, yet following me around like a puppy dog while spouting on with some bizarre agenda.

 

Why do you take the time to reply to the incidental and ignore my posts that try to get to the core of the issue?

 

WHAT? Are you afraid I will send you away as I did with that ridiculous "original art vs 1st run comic books" thread? sumo.gifsumo.gifsumo.gifsumo.gifsumo.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Are you taking advantage of a seller if you find an Action #1 at a flea market for $20? Of course not. If the seller really cared about the book and thought it might be worth serious change, he would have looked into it.

 

Again with the negativity and the bizarre notion that because you have greater knowledge of comics, you have the inalienable right (nah duty) to use it to scam those "uncaring sellers who got what they deserved!!".

 

I hope you'd be as forgiving of an accountant taking your money (due to his greater knowledge and time invested in his craft), or the big monster at the gym laying a beating on your pasty frame (he works out 10 hours a day, so he deserves it) or a lawyer snookering you with a hidden clause (shoulda gone to law school comic-boy)?

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PedigreeMan

PedigreeMan

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What is your problem? You've been acting like a tool for a bit now, saying nothing, doing nothing and contributing nothing, yet following me around like a puppy dog while spouting on with some bizarre agenda.

 

Are you apprenticing under Bug? And yes, I said UNDER Bug.

 

And if you geniuses think that Stan Lee actually thought up a new "moral code" with his "with great power..." speech, then you need to get out more and read some books without pictures.

 

Instead of posting juvenile retorts, you should really be working on your answers to Pov's questions. I don't think he's going to quit dogging you on them, either.

 

Face it, Vince, you're hip deep in it and sinking fast! insane.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Why do you take the time to reply to the incidental and ignore my posts that try to get to the core of the issue?

 

Trutfully, I do not want to get to the core of the issue with you guys. It's dark, dirty and smelly in the bowels of your collective ethics, and I feel like an innocent guy sentenced to life on Devil's Island.

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PedigreeMan

PedigreeMan

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I hope you'd be as forgiving of an accountant taking your money (due to his greater knowledge and time invested in his craft), or the big monster at the gym laying a beating on your pasty frame (he works out 10 hours a day, so he deserves it) or a lawyer snookering you with a hidden clause (shoulda gone to law school comic-boy)?

 

893applaud-thumb.gif893applaud-thumb.gif893applaud-thumb.gif

 

Now you've got it! I'm so proud of you! This is the kind of thoughtful argument I've been wanting to get from you all along. Let's see if you can just keep cool enough to have a meaningful debate without things degrading to name-calling. (Stop it with the groans from the peanut gallery back there! boo.gif If ya don't like it, don't read it!)

 

Come on, Joe ... show me you can do it ....

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