Affordable Byrne Original X-Men Comic Art Still Out There (on eBay no less....)

[tentpeg06]

Board Members,

I have seen several posts lamenting the price of Byrne original comic art in the past several months. Last weekend, there was a post on the official Byrne Forum where someone was trying to verify the authenticity of two pages from X-Men 133. That person had posted links to the auctions on that forum. What really surprised me as I watched this auction unfold over the last several days was that it never appeared on CAF as a link. Two big Byrne players that I know of were posting messages to the seller. To the seller's credit, he never closed the auctions down, and he let them run their course. Both pages closed for over $3,000, but, in my opinion, he could have received more (>USD$5K) had he posted them in the right forum on eBay.

 

Like I wrote, I still cannot believe that enough people remained quiet about these eBay postings so that it never appeared on CAF as a link. However, I offer congratulations to Eelco V. because he purchased two key pages leading up to the Dark Phoenix creation that unfolded in X-Men 134. Sorry, Eelco, this is in the public domain now.

 

Now that I have kept everyone in suspense who was not aware of these pages, here are the links to two pages in case you missed them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270153918122&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=017

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270153916945&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=017

Ciao!

PRC

[delekkerste]

Both pages closed for over $3,000, but, in my opinion, he could have received more (>USD$5K) had he posted them in the right forum on eBay.

 

You're probably right that a proper categorization would have resulted in a higher price, but >$5K for a page featuring Cyclops out of uniform (not even in his civilian clothes, but in a one-time, unrecognizable get-up), no word balloons and a 2nd-rate villain?? I know that page of Scott and Jean out of costume from this storyline ended up fetching big bucks, but let's face it, that had Jean in a bikini and the fanboys were always going to slobber over that one. If $5K is the going rate for pages like this (yeah, I know it's from the Dark Phoenix storyline, but the content of these just isn't very good IMO), then I really don't need to get an example after all.

[westform]

Hey, we agree on something! I think the pages had a number of bids and went for about what they should have.... (maybe a few hundred more could have been had?). But I can see no reason to shell out 5k a piece on those pages. I'd rather go for the Byrne page on ebay now for 5k from 116 I think it is.... or go for that very, very nice Buscema/Stone Surfer page that is also on ebay. Dan F.

[heartened]

3-4K sounds about right to me. The pages are memorable, but there's a lack of detail/background (which, of course, was intended), and cyclops is out of costume. Great storyline, leading to the climax, of course.

 

Hari

 

[Artemaria]

Hey Tentpeg!

 

Long time no speak. Hope all is going well with you.

 

Tentpeg, you know that I'm slobbering over the chance to get a good Byrne/Austin X-men page, and these ultimately sold for a price in my range --

 

HOWEVER,

 

let's do a little math

 

Dark Phoenix storyline - (minus) no backgrounds - (minus) no costume - (minus) no Wolverine - (minus) condition issues = no $5K.

 

Quite frankly, I'm shocked that they went for over $3K. While it seems a generic page is going for $2-$5K these days, I thought that these were not great examples, and should have sold for the bottom end of the spectrum.

 

And if you are fan of the ART. Not, not just the story, but the art, holding the board in your hand and looking at each line with your eyes to see what they did and how they did it, and then moving it back against the wall to see how all those masterful little details amounted to a wonderfully presented page, well, then, this was an underwhelming example.

 

The pages were at least cream colored, maybe tan. On the close ups, you could see that there were two different kinds of inks involved, one of which was fading fast and one of which was not. And there was not a shred of backgrounds (I know that this was intentional, but it was a crime not to have backgrounds back when Byrne was at the height of his abilities).

 

Quite simply there are a great number of pages that were far better, and I believe that you may be familiar with some of them ;-)

 

So rather than viewing this as a great discount sale, I would just view it as an affirmation of the strength of that market, because those pages had no right getting a whiff of $5K in my opinion -

 

and you know I am a devoted fan of those artists and that storyline at that time.

 

To paraphase Erik Larsen on CBR, that's just my opinion, and I'm willing to concede that I may be wrong.

 

Best regards and it is really nice seeing you on the boards again.

 

- A

 

 

[Drummy]

Hi all --

 

Good points by all. The pages are a good reminder not to search Ebay only by category (as I often do ), but also that the Byrne X-Men market probably endures the same price fluctuations based on page content as any creative tandem, just at a higher level. I completely agree that these pages are crucial to the Dark Phoenix saga (Cyclops' "death" frees Jean from Mastermind's control, etc.), but the art is indeed secondary to the story here -- the pages don't have the visual appeal of most Byrne/Austin pages. To me $3-4k seems about right. Congratulations to Eelco if indeed he was the winner!

 

By the way, where did that nice Ebay (Magneto) page from issue 112 go to? I can't find it now. Also, Anthony Snyder had a nice #131 page for sale on his site that just sold. Anyone here pick it up? It had great Phoenix/Nightcrawler images!

 

Dan

 

ps also in the market for a nice Byrne X-men page...call me when my second mortage is in hand!

[Artemaria]

By the way, where did that nice Ebay (Magneto) page from issue 112 go to? I can't find it now.

 

Seller ended the item early because it was "no longer available." Looks like it sold off eBay.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300141833289&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

[tentpeg06]

To Gene, Dan F., Hari, Dan D., Artemis, et al.,

Position Justification Time on my original post:

 

1. It seems that I have general disagreement on the final hammer price, which is great in a forum like this. First, I think that page 16 was heavily under-valued at $3,050. Two different storylines were unfolding here with Wolverine taking on the Hellfire Club flunkies and with Cyclops defeat at the hands of MasterMind. Page 16 leads up to the memorable splash where the other X-Men believe that he is dead. Had this page been in the right forum, I believe it would have commanded a much higher price as I wrote (not Krazy Mony but it should have sold for more than page 14),

 

2. OK, I will take the sucking chest wound on page 14 from my earlier post. Upon reflection after I have seen and read other people's posts, I do agree that it closed at a more realistic market price,

 

3. John Byrne reminded everyone on his forum that these pages from 133 were late; thus, the reason for not having the lettering which was included on a separate overlay in order to make the deadline production process. He did verify their authenticity on his forum. John also mentioned that Terry used a different inking technique in order to make the deadline. Both 133 pages were in the same predicament as the 132 page that sold on eBay several months ago for more than $8K. Yes, I agree that the 132 page was a much better page, and it did command a premium when the auction closed,

 

4. Still, no one has commented on the fact that key Byrne collectors did not let Bill Cox's group know about this auction,

 

5. To Dan F., the page that closed yesterday was from 112. It is interesting in talking and typing to several Byrne collectors that many like the 111-113 small arc and that many like the 114-116 small arc that made up the larger story arc from 111-122. I particularly like the 111-113 story arc because I think that the team of Claremont/Byrne/Austin came up with one of the best X-Men versus Magneto storylines. Not discrediting what Lee/Kirby did back in 1963 and what Thomas/Adams/Palmer did back in 1969, the team here did not have Professor X's assistance at all on Magneto's turf. The juxtaposition between the X-Men fighting as individuals in 112 (getting creamed by Magneto) and fighting as a team in 113 (almost returning the creaming favor) really resonated with me in 1978 and still does today.

 

Thoughts of others?

Ciao!

PRC

[heartened]

Hi Phil,

 

The use of marker during the Hellfire Club storyline is a real turn-off for me. It makes the art uneven, and increasingly so as time goes by. The splash you refer to is a perfect example. Heavy use of marker in multiple key areas, including the detailing on his jacket/robe. I heard, however, that this splash was recently restored (re-inked), which of course is a travesty but that's just my opinion.

 

Hari

 

[spider9698]

Here is the splash in question. Hari is correct: the current owner has reinked the piece.

[Artemaria]

Hey Philip -

 

You make some good points and it is clear that the Byrne/Austin market has changed. But notwithstanding their importance to the story, as art, as pure art, the pages were rather underwhelming and probably went for fair value or close thereto (as a basic test - could you frame it and put it up on your wall and have people say - "nice X-men page" - ummm, no).

 

Also, even though they weren't on CAF, nearly 1000 people saw the page in which Wolvie gets clobbered. That's pretty high traffic. So, I don't think that (for reasons unknown to me) the absence of these pages on CAF made much of a difference.

 

Further, I have to agree with Hari that, at least in my eyes, the use of marker does not enhance a piece's value. There's plenty of nice Gil Kane stuff that he inked himself in marker that people are trying to give away because it is no longer black (or even dark grey).

 

You and I are in agreement that the three Byrne issues in which they fought Magneto (111-113) are one of the best treatments of a fight with Magneto in a long time. While out of my current price range, like Dan F., I could see $5K for that page in view of recent valuations. By the way, do you know what happened to that page from X-men 112?

 

Always a pleasure chatting with you.

 

- Artemis

 

 

[tentpeg06]

Hey Philip -

 

You make some good points and it is clear that the Byrne/Austin market has changed. But notwithstanding their importance to the story, as art, as pure art, the pages were rather underwhelming and probably went for fair value or close thereto (as a basic test - could you frame it and put it up on your wall and have people say - "nice X-men page" - ummm, no).

 

Also, even though they weren't on CAF, nearly 1000 people saw the page in which Wolvie gets clobbered. That's pretty high traffic. So, I don't think that (for reasons unknown to me) the absence of these pages on CAF made much of a difference.

 

Further, I have to agree with Hari that, at least in my eyes, the use of marker does not enhance a piece's value. There's plenty of nice Gil Kane stuff that he inked himself in marker that people are trying to give away because it is no longer black (or even dark grey).

 

You and I are in agreement that the three Byrne issues in which they fought Magneto (111-113) are one of the best treatments of a fight with Magneto in a long time. While out of my current price range, like Dan F., I could see $5K for that page in view of recent valuations. By the way, do you know what happened to that page from X-men 112?

 

Always a pleasure chatting with you.

 

- Artemis

 

 

A,

As always, you present a very insightful post. For me and as I wrote earlier, page 16 was the surprise page. Maybe I am too nostalagic. That image of MasterMind (as Jason Wyngarde) piercing Cyclops through his mid-section still resonates with me. For me, I would have that page framed. Page 14 would remain in my bin of other Byrne art. The main detraction for me on both pages is the absence of the word balloons. Also, I think that the views increased significantly due to my posting the links. I believe that the eBay counters still continue to count after the auction is over. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

 

I agree with the marker comments. I personally do not own any Kane pages where he used a marker. If I ever do come across any of those pages, then I will probably pass. Addressing Hari's comments about the current owner having page 17 re-inked is depressing. If that page were to come up for sale, then I hope that the current owner discloses this fact. Would it have a considerable impact on the sales price? That is a good question that I cannot answer. I, for one, would not be a bidder now possessing this information. Did the owner at least have Terry Austin re-ink the page over his markers?

Ciao!

PRC

[TupennyConan]

Here is the splash in question. Hari is correct: the current owner has reinked the piece.

 

Oh my beejesus, re-inked the page???? That is about as nice a Byrne X-Men page as you can find....re-inked Austin? Oh my goodness.

 

Its like its not even the original art anymore!! I have tears, literal tears!!

[comix4fun]

Here is the splash in question. Hari is correct: the current owner has reinked the piece.

 

 

 

I hope and pray that Terry Austin is doing the ink work.

 

If Terry himself re-inks it I tend to have less problem with this type of work being done. The original inker, working on the original piece, to correct an error in using markers in the first place.

 

Anyone else working on the page would be akin to destroying the piece.

 

C

[spider9698]

Scott Williams did the re-inking.

 

[TupennyConan]

If Austin did it, I suppose it wouldn't matter as much. But it might change my attitude some. For example, Frazzetta is famous (infamous) for reworking his paintings...meaning the original is gone forever....doesn't that make you a little sad? I think Da Vinci carried the Mona Lisa around with him his whole life, constantly working on her....

[TupennyConan]

Scott Williams did the re-inking.

 

I'm sorry but I don't even know who Scott Williams is...

[comix4fun]

Scott Williams did the re-inking.

 

I'm sorry but I don't even know who Scott Williams is...

 

He's one of the best inkers working today...or in the last 15 years.

He is wonderfully talented and I would trust him with any job whatsoever.

I also consider Scott a good friend of mine in this hobby and I have alot of respect for him both personally and professionally.

That being said, I would never have anyone but the original inker or artist touch a piece of art.

 

Chris

[pinupcartoonguy]

That said, a lot of art is retouched/restoured by artists who were not the original creators (think about all the art by dead artists). If it's done competently, why should it make a difference just because it's comic art?

[pinupcartoonguy]

Also, if I recall correctly, this was on the wall at Albert Moy's booth. Is this piece still Albert's or did someone buy it?