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Tell me how YOU feel on switching teams

Started by DrWatson,

42 posts in this topic

JuliusSeizure

JuliusSeizure

Posted
Posted

I actually kinda like it when that happens. For two reasons, I think. First off, I think I like the idea of most people being redeemable. Secondly, a villain-turned-hero has a certain 'edge' to him or her - you actually *can* tug on Superman's cape, but you'd better not mess with Magneto (and yes, I know he's bad again :-)).

 

Like most ideas, however, when done too often or badly it fizzles.

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Ze-man

Ze-man

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Posted
The subject line had me thinking that you were coming out. :gossip:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not that there's anything wrong with it. :jokealert:

 

No not Doc , but I think Robin has something he wants to tell the class.

 

Ze-

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DrWatson

DrWatson

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On the topic of long time villains becoming heroes. I don't like it. Good villains equal good stories. It might be different if some really cool kickass villains were to come along to replace the old, but that rarely happens these days.

 

Couldn't agree more :(

 

Venom, Sabretooth and Juggernaught come to mind. Probably my top 3 "villains" no less.

They really screwed Venom and Sabretooth. They were perfect villains. They try to cash in on their popularity and the only way they can carry their own book is to "herotize" the villains. But, Emma is hot. I'll give them that.

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greggy

greggy

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Posted
I actually thought he was going to admit to giving up on collecting HG X-men and pursue DC 100 pagers. Nobody collects those. :baiting:

I would never let He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named lure me over to the dark side. :angel:

I have a cyanide pill just in case
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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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Posted
On the topic of long time villains becoming heroes. I don't like it. Good villains equal good stories. It might be different if some really cool kickass villains were to come along to replace the old, but that rarely happens these days.

 

Couldn't agree more :(

 

Venom, Sabretooth and Juggernaught come to mind. Probably my top 3 "villains" no less.

They really screwed Venom and Sabretooth. They were perfect villains. They try to cash in on their popularity and the only way they can carry their own book is to "herotize" the villains. But, Emma is hot. I'll give them that.

 

When was Sabretooth a hero?

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DrWatson

DrWatson

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On the topic of long time villains becoming heroes. I don't like it. Good villains equal good stories. It might be different if some really cool kickass villains were to come along to replace the old, but that rarely happens these days.

 

Couldn't agree more :(

 

Venom, Sabretooth and Juggernaught come to mind. Probably my top 3 "villains" no less.

They really screwed Venom and Sabretooth. They were perfect villains. They try to cash in on their popularity and the only way they can carry their own book is to "herotize" the villains. But, Emma is hot. I'll give them that.

 

When was Sabretooth a hero?

He has been a member of both the X-men and X-factor, albeit reluctantly.

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rza808

rza808

Posted
Posted
hm It actually could be a realistic approach if done the right way and with the right characters. When fighters fight each other and that fight brings the best(and sometimes the worst) out in both, they often reflect on it with joy. Many a friend has been made after a little school yard brawl. Now I dunno about when that nemesis repeatedly tries to kill you but I am sure you get my point. lol let it be known that for the most part I am against it because the good guys should be GOOD and not just some of the times or when they feel like it. (thumbs u
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OldGuy

OldGuy

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Posted
On the topic of long time villains becoming heroes. I don't like it. Good villains equal good stories. It might be different if some really cool kickass villains were to come along to replace the old, but that rarely happens these days.

 

Couldn't agree more :(

 

Venom, Sabretooth and Juggernaught come to mind. Probably my top 3 "villains" no less.

They really screwed Venom and Sabretooth. They were perfect villains. They try to cash in on their popularity and the only way they can carry their own book is to "herotize" the villains. But, Emma is hot. I'll give them that.

 

When was Sabretooth a hero?

He has been a member of both the X-men and X-factor, albeit reluctantly.

 

Well he's dead now so no worries.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

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On the topic of long time villains becoming heroes. I don't like it. Good villains equal good stories. It might be different if some really cool kickass villains were to come along to replace the old, but that rarely happens these days.

 

Couldn't agree more :(

 

Venom, Sabretooth and Juggernaught come to mind. Probably my top 3 "villains" no less.

They really screwed Venom and Sabretooth. They were perfect villains. They try to cash in on their popularity and the only way they can carry their own book is to "herotize" the villains. But, Emma is hot. I'll give them that.

 

When was Sabretooth a hero?

He has been a member of both the X-men and X-factor, albeit reluctantly.

 

Well he's dead now so no worries.

Yeah, like that will be permanent.

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MatMarvelV1

MatMarvelV1

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I'm not overly keen unless they have a real motivation for doing it, i.e. serious personal gain - but the 'heroic' act must be temporary and they return to their evil ways as soon as they have achieved what they set out for.

 

No evil villain can ever have a crisis of concience because they are generally psychosociopaths who have no morality, decency, sense of duty or attachment to others - they only see what matters to them and whoever stands in their way gets hurts or dead, anything else and they were just misguided fools - and I'm pretty sure they can't massacre, serial kill or end entire civilisations....

 

So in summary - well written, yes..... Galacticus fearing the world he just devoured may have been worthy of another chance and he regurgitates, reforms it and settles down on a ranch in the country with local girl Mary-Sue,.... No.

 

:insane:

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OldGuy

OldGuy

Posted
Posted
On the topic of long time villains becoming heroes. I don't like it. Good villains equal good stories. It might be different if some really cool kickass villains were to come along to replace the old, but that rarely happens these days.

 

Couldn't agree more :(

 

Venom, Sabretooth and Juggernaught come to mind. Probably my top 3 "villains" no less.

They really screwed Venom and Sabretooth. They were perfect villains. They try to cash in on their popularity and the only way they can carry their own book is to "herotize" the villains. But, Emma is hot. I'll give them that.

 

When was Sabretooth a hero?

He has been a member of both the X-men and X-factor, albeit reluctantly.

 

Well he's dead now so no worries.

Yeah, like that will be permanent.

 

That was my point. I should have used the meh

 

His death is as permanent as anything else, like allegiances for example....

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DrWatson

DrWatson

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I'm not overly keen unless they have a real motivation for doing it, i.e. serious personal gain - but the 'heroic' act must be temporary and they return to their evil ways as soon as they have achieved what they set out for.

 

No evil villain can ever have a crisis of concience because they are generally psychosociopaths who have no morality, decency, sense of duty or attachment to others - they only see what matters to them and whoever stands in their way gets hurts or dead, anything else and they were just misguided fools - and I'm pretty sure they can't massacre, serial kill or end entire civilisations....

 

So in summary - well written, yes..... Galacticus fearing the world he just devoured may have been worthy of another chance and he regurgitates, reforms it and settles down on a ranch in the country with local girl Mary-Sue,.... No.

 

:insane:

:golfclap:
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kingofwhales

kingofwhales

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I don`t read the modern x-men books but i`m still trying to figure out how the villains

who have murdered people have gone on to be part of the team, or the murdering villains they`ve switched in any other super heroe books,i`ve never really got that. (shrug)

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gaz973

gaz973

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The best written and most convincing reformation of a villain was definitely Magneto. Chris Claremont, back in the days before he ran out of idea's in my opinion, turned Magneto from a run of the mill, one dimensional villain to one of the most interesting characters in the Marvel universe with a fleshed out past and believable motivation. Of course, then Lobdell found it too much effort to use character development and so reverted him back to a fairly dull psychopath meh , though there have been some good Magneto stories since.

I think that he is best portrayed as neither friend nor enemy to the X Men but as someone who would ally with or oppose them as needed.

Best Magneto story? Uncanny X Men # 274/275 with Rogue in the Savage Land.

 

In the last 20 years of comics there have been too many reformed villains switching sides willy, nilly to take it seriously any more however Thunderbolts by Kurt Busiek and then Fabian Nicieza was an excellent (though slightly far fetched) story of reforming villain characterisation. (thumbs u

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Point Five

Point Five

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The best written and most convincing reformation of a villain was definitely Magneto. Chris Claremont, back in the days before he ran out of idea's in my opinion, turned Magneto from a run of the mill, one dimensional villain to one of the most interesting characters in the Marvel universe with a fleshed out past and believable motivation. Of course, then Lobdell found it too much effort to use character development and so reverted him back to a fairly dull psychopath meh , though there have been some good Magneto stories since.

I was literally just going to write that...thanks for saving me the trouble! :applause:

 

I loved the evolution of Magneto in X-Men #100-200 or so. Very thoughtful writing. What a shame that they "undid" that.

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gaz973

gaz973

Posted
Posted
The best written and most convincing reformation of a villain was definitely Magneto. Chris Claremont, back in the days before he ran out of idea's in my opinion, turned Magneto from a run of the mill, one dimensional villain to one of the most interesting characters in the Marvel universe with a fleshed out past and believable motivation. Of course, then Lobdell found it too much effort to use character development and so reverted him back to a fairly dull psychopath meh , though there have been some good Magneto stories since.

I was literally just going to write that...thanks for saving me the trouble! :applause:

 

I loved the evolution of Magneto in X-Men #100-200 or so. Very thoughtful writing. What a shame that they "undid" that.

 

Amen brother. (thumbs u

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bronzilla

bronzilla

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Posted

I think with the proper writing a Villian becoming the Hero for a short time or for a specific reason such as fighting a common enemy or common threat. Lends to added depth and dimension of the Character, Take most of spideys opponents they all seem to have switched sides temporarily at some point and they all seem to have kind of sad origins which makes them seem more human and gives the reader a sympathy for them where even while you are rooting for spidey in a battle you still on a certain level are cheering on the villian.Uunder very few curcimstances does it work for the villian to completly switch sides. I think the only one that did it succesfully in my opinion is SUBMARINER even as a hero you still feel he could switch sides in a monent as he really has no loyalty to humankind per se.

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