OT - Where's the Thread Crucifying MK

[shadroch]

Quite frankly,any other year I'd have been rooting for the Mets to make the playoffs so they could lose yet again to the Yankees in a WS. But the sheer nonsense Danny and Brad were braying all year turned me off so much I rooted for them to do just what they did.

[shadroch]

You really cannot use payroll as an excuse for any team doing well. At the present time there is no salary cap in baseball, so the playing field is even for everyone in that aspect. The reason teams like NY have a big payroll is because they have a huge fan base/followers. Here in Boston, Fenway Park has sold out every game for the last 6+ years. If they had a bigger ballpark/more seating, it still would sell out.

 

The teams that do not have a big payroll usually are the teams that have very little fans in their stadiums.

Huh? The playing field is not even at all!! New York and Boston have millions more potential fans to start with compared to say, Kansas City or Pittsburgh. Which immediately translates into many millions of additional dollars in tv and radio rights. Plus the competition for seats allows them to charge higher prices.

 

It is nowehere near even!

 

 

i think the trick is doing a comparative analysis regarding revenue vs. salaries. if the Spankees are making 200 million with their various revenue sources and spending 180 million, then that's exactly the same as the Indians spending 90 million against revenues of 100 million.

 

now, in this completely-yanked-out-of-my-butt numbers game, if the Indians are spending 60 million against revenues of 100 million, then their fans should all be angry at their ownership group, not Geo. Steinbrenner.

 

but the problem with this is that none of the teams will open their books, so all we can really do is make WAGs at what their revenue and expense streams look like

 

 

 

I don't get it.On the one hand you admit that you have no idea what kind of revenues the clubs have,and you put the blame for that squarely on the owners. Great,but then you turn around and repeat their lines about unfair competition and the lines about owners losing money.

Why do you think Boston has millions more potential fans than KC?

[Pirate]

outside of diehard fans, the masses flock to winners. For example, there are 150,000 people who claim to have been at Tom Brownings perfect game.

[Foolkiller]

Shad,

 

What's weird is your hatred for the Mets to me... most Yankee fans I know are ambivalent about the Mets... they're so "beneath" them, they don't even really matter. Met fans (and I say this as a Met fan) suffer from inferiority complex, so they "hate" the "arrogant" (and they are) Yankee fan. Bottom line is, if I were a Yankee fan, my attitude would be to ignore the Mets. The BoSox are the "hated" rival. The Mets are like your annoying little brother. As a fan of the annoying little brother, I obviously want to see them win in the worst way, but really... I think the situation is what it is.

 

The bottom line is that other teams in baseball really don't like many of the Met players. Say what you will about the absolutely horrid, horrid performance by Tom Glavine, the guy is classy. David Wright, stand up guy. Delgado, same thing. But look at Reyes (who I like) who needs to grow up and show class. Oh, and show up down the stretch. How about the wretched bullpen or the subpar starting pitching? The Mets were a classless bunch Saturday and I was embarassed. What you finally win a game in a week and what to do you do? Showboat. I can understand excitement, but I wouldn't have been excited. All you did was pull into a tie. Nothing was won whatsoever.

 

As for money in baseball, look, money, as many teams have proven, is not the #1 ingredient, but it does help put you over the top if you have made yourself competitive. For instance, the A's and Twins are good examples of small market teams who are generally consistently competitive. I believe if they spent money at the deadline, got that one extra free agent, they might be even further ahead. But unlike the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, BoSox etc. who can count on huge TV deals (where the real money is) to make up revenue, as well as the extra licensing revenue, these smaller market teams don't have those advantages. Which is why it's all the sweeter when teams like the Diamondbacks beat the Yankees -- and prove it doesn't have to be all about the $ in baseball.

[Sal]

You really cannot use payroll as an excuse for any team doing well. At the present time there is no salary cap in baseball, so the playing field is even for everyone in that aspect. The reason teams like NY have a big payroll is because they have a huge fan base/followers. Here in Boston, Fenway Park has sold out every game for the last 6+ years. If they had a bigger ballpark/more seating, it still would sell out.

 

The teams that do not have a big payroll usually are the teams that have very little fans in their stadiums.

Huh? The playing field is not even at all!! New York and Boston have millions more potential fans to start with compared to say, Kansas City or Pittsburgh. Which immediately translates into many millions of additional dollars in tv and radio rights. Plus the competition for seats allows them to charge higher prices.

 

It is nowehere near even!

 

 

i think the trick is doing a comparative analysis regarding revenue vs. salaries. if the Spankees are making 200 million with their various revenue sources and spending 180 million, then that's exactly the same as the Indians spending 90 million against revenues of 100 million.

 

now, in this completely-yanked-out-of-my-butt numbers game, if the Indians are spending 60 million against revenues of 100 million, then their fans should all be angry at their ownership group, not Geo. Steinbrenner.

 

but the problem with this is that none of the teams will open their books, so all we can really do is make WAGs at what their revenue and expense streams look like

 

 

 

I don't get it.On the one hand you admit that you have no idea what kind of revenues the clubs have,and you put the blame for that squarely on the owners. Great,but then you turn around and repeat their lines about unfair competition and the lines about owners losing money.

Why do you think Boston has millions more potential fans than KC?

 

you've completely misinterpreted my position. i didn't make any assertion about "unfair." but thanks for reading it! more than i usually get

[shadroch]

BK,

I don't hate the Mets. Living in Queens for as long as I did,most of my friends are Met fans.This year,it was more about disliking the messengers,not the message itself. But after the nonsense they pulled on Saturday,I was hoping they'd lose even more.Willie should have benched Reyes for Sundays game. A better Manager would have. Hopefully Omar will shows Ho-Zay the door this winter.Maybe Tejas will take another headache off NYs hands,and give up a catcher in return.

[mrwoogieman]

I was almost rooting for the Mets before the game started, but once Glavine started to imitate a side of meat from Rocky, I was happy to see them go home mad/sad.

 

 

They blew their chance last year to a garbage Cards team and frittered away half of this year sleep walking through the garbage NL. Serves them right.

[Ze-man]

I was almost rooting for the Mets before the game started, but once Glavine started to imitate a side of meat from Rocky, I was happy to see them go home mad/sad.

 

 

They blew their chance last year to a garbage Cards team and frittered away half of this year sleep walking through the garbage NL. Serves them right.

 

You're glib.

 

Ze-

[Foolkiller]

BK,

I don't hate the Mets. Living in Queens for as long as I did,most of my friends are Met fans.This year,it was more about disliking the messengers,not the message itself. But after the nonsense they pulled on Saturday,I was hoping they'd lose even more.Willie should have benched Reyes for Sundays game. A better Manager would have. Hopefully Omar will shows Ho-Zay the door this winter.Maybe Tejas will take another headache off NYs hands,and give up a catcher in return.

 

Uh, you can't bench one of your best players -- nor can you get rid of him, especially since you signed him to a long term deal last year. He's a cornerstone of the Mets future who needs to grow up and show a little maturity. Influences like Ricky Henderson (and apparently Castillo) were not great on Reyes. The guy has only improved over time, and I expect this will be yet another learning experience for him.

 

Still, I can understand the feeling of anti - Mets fans right now, the performance Saturday was terrible, especially when not backed up on Sunday with a lackluster effort.

[shadroch]

You can bench your best players.Billy Martin would have.Torre would.Look what the Yankees did with Soriano. Yes,they ended up getting ARod for him,but he was going to be gone one way or the other.

[Foolkiller]

You can bench your best players.Billy Martin would have.Torre would.Look what the Yankees did with Soriano. Yes,they ended up getting ARod for him,but he was going to be gone one way or the other.

 

Yes, but even Torre acknowledges that batting ARod 8th last year was a big mistake -- as was messing with Sheffield. My point is, Billy Martin might have, but I don't think Torre would bench Reyes, nor would most managers. You can't bench a guy like Reyes, you just have to hope he learned from this experience. Overall, I think Reyes is a great player -- and no, I don't think they should trade him anywhere.

[shadroch]

Actually,if you go back and look at this season,Reyes decline dates back almost directly to the game in Houston when Willie pulled him for not running out a ground ball on July 7th.He hit .254 for the year after that,had only three triples,and stopped stealing bases as well.I don't think that was a coincidence.I think he sulked thru the last half and is the guy most responsible for the Mets not making the playoffs. As the Mets need two starting pitchers,a gaggle of bullpen help,at least one outfielder and a catcher,I'd trade him while he still has superior value.

 

ARod last year wasn't hitting,but he wasn't dogging it. Big difference.

[The Black Hand ®]

because the Mets suffered the worst collapse is baseball history?

 

Typically, I would be kinder, but Met fan arrogance in June has earned them torture in October.

 

 

 

It's difficult for me to try to rub it in since I'm a SF Giants fan and I'm not sure if any of you have noticed but we didn't have all that great a season. Also, I can remember a few seasons back when we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in a certain World Series.

[joecgcmaniac]

because the Mets suffered the worst collapse is baseball history?

 

Typically, I would be kinder, but Met fan arrogance in June has earned them torture in October.

 

 

 

It's difficult for me to try to rub it in since I'm a SF Giants fan and I not sure if any of you have noticed but we didn't have all that great a season this year.Also, I can remember a few seasons back when we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in a certain World Series.

 

Just because you fell before the power of the.............. RALLY MONKEY!!!!!