OT - Where's the Thread Crucifying MK

[Mr. Zipper]

What the Yankees can do is make mistakes - Carl Pavano anyone? That being said, teams that person_without_enough_empathy and moan about not being able to spend money should just shut up. Carl Pohlhad is one of the 400 most weathy people in America. Spend some money. The owners of the Kansas City Royals are also in that top 400 list. The Cleveland Indians are a money-making machine...

 

Bravo, FD.

 

Maybe if some of the teams in the basement held their owners accountable, instead of blaming the Yankees who pay to field a competitive team, their teams would be better.

 

George Steinbrenner is a wealthy man... but not nearly as wealthy as some of the owners from those "poor underpriviledged" teams.

[carcrawfordfan]

What the Yankees can do is make mistakes - Carl Pavano anyone? That being said, teams that person_without_enough_empathy and moan about not being able to spend money should just shut up. Carl Pohlhad is one of the 400 most weathy people in America. Spend some money. The owners of the Kansas City Royals are also in that top 400 list. The Cleveland Indians are a money-making machine.

 

Further, to compare the teams on salaries is, essentially, irrelevant. You need to compare teams within divisions, as that's all that matters. You want to see ineptitude, look at the Orioles and the White Sox. These are all opening day numbers, and have, of course, changed significantly, but this is a good starting point.

 

AL East

New York Yankees $ 189,639,045 (note that $20 million of this is paid by Texas)

Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214

Toronto Blue Jays $ 81,942,800

Baltimore Orioles $ 93,554,808

Tampa Bay Devil Rays $ 24,123,500

 

AL Central

Cleveland Indians $ 61,673,267

Detroit Tigers $ 95,180,369

Minnesota Twins $ 71,439,500

Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833

Kansas City Royals $ 67,116,500

 

AL West

Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333

Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833

Oakland Athletics $ 79,366,940

Texas Rangers $ 68,318,675 (add the $20 million paid to ARod)

 

NL East

Philadelphia Phillies $ 89,428,213

New York Mets $ 115,231,663

Atlanta Braves $ 87,290,833

Washington Nationals $ 37,347,500

Florida Marlins $ 30,507,000

 

NL Central

Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332

Milwaukee Brewers $ 70,986,500

St. Louis Cardinals $ 90,286,823

Cincinnati Reds $ 68,904,980

Houston Astros $ 87,759,000

Pittsburgh Pirates $ 38,537,833

 

NL West

Arizona Diamondbacks $ 52,067,546

Colorado Rockies $ 54,424,000

San Diego Padres $ 58,110,567

Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524

San Francisco Giants $ 90,219,056

 

Do the Yankees have a massive payroll? Yes, but so do their division rival Red Sox. The team that's a joke in the American League is Tampa Bay, who receives nearly $40 million per year in revenue sharing - of which the majority comes from the Yankees - while only spending $25 million on salaries.

 

 

Where are you getting this info that Texas is paying $20M of Arod's salary? This is the amount they paid/are paying (per ESPN.com): $3 million in 2004, $6 million each in 2005, 2006 and 2010, $7 million apiece in 2007 and 2009 and $8 million in 2008. You must also know that these salaries do not include minor league operations, ballpark operations, coaches, scouts, etc. I do not know if Tampa Bay makes money or not and really don't care, but they obviously are never going to be able to spend $200 plus million on payroll in a season and even more on luxury tax and things of this nature. The Cleveland Indians sold out every single game for 454 game in a row during 1999-2001 and this didn't help them spend insane amounts of money. We lost Belle, Thome, Manny, Roberto Alomar, Colon and others. The team is still a business and the owners were still losing money. I realize Steinbrenner and others have the money and can spend what they want, but surely you can not say it isn't a lot easier when almost half your roster makes $10M or more per season. The Yankees have an advantage every single year and they use it. I think they have every right to do it, but I don't want to hear the person_without_enough_empathying about how good they are. They should be good. They should be in the playoffs 13 years in a row. They should have 7 all-stars. They should win the world series every couple of years. I just don't think they should badmouth other clubs without looking in the mirror and seeing what they have become.

[BRNebraska]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

 

 

Actually, they won it in '04

 

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox

 

 

Well, the Cubs haven't won it since '08 and haven't been in the WS since '45.

 

Yeah but we had a dynasty in '07 / '08! Back-to-back baby!

[Mr. Zipper]

My first memories were watching the Yankees on Channel 11 with my grandparents in the mid-70s.

 

My first visit to the Stadium was in July of 1979, when I saw my hero, Thurman Munson, in one of his last games.

[the blob]

I am not sure if you are aware of this, but the Yankees once again top baseball with a $195 million payroll.

----------------------------------------------

 

Ah yes, it's the old "it doesn't count because the Yankees have money to spend" argument. For some reason spending oodles of money hasn't helped the twin disaster teams over at Madison Square Garden owned by those Dolans from Cleveland! Yes, nobody is aware that the Yankees payroll is high. But $23.4 million of that was spent on Giambi, who missed 75% of the season and hit about as well as a player from A ball, $10 million on Pavano, who never pitched, and $18 million on Clemens, who, as it turns out wasn't really any better than what the Yanks had in the minors. Not to mention $11 million on Mussina, who was mostly atrocious. Fartsworth was also pretty terrible for $5.6 million. Igawa I think counts as $7 million toward the payroll too and he was also horrendous.

 

So, really, about $60-70 million of that hardly contributed to the win column!

 

Not to mention, this is a high cost of living town. Jorge Posada has to spend $8 million on an apartment that probably wouldn't even be $800K in Cleveland.

 

With all the young guys coming up and some expiring contracts, the Yankees might actually see a major payroll decrease next year. Giambi and Clemens not coming back is going to be almost $45 million right there!

 

Honestly, I'd rather have management that tries hard to put a winning team on the field than one that hoards its pennies.

 

Not to mention, when Sizemore and the rest of the not-yet-eligible-for-free-agency crowd come of age, Cleveland will either have to pay them or watch them go adios.

[TheWatcher]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

 

 

Actually, they won it in '04

 

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox

 

 

Well, the Cubs haven't won it since '08 and haven't been in the WS since '45.

 

Sorry. You've lost me. I didn't even know what the WS was until that episode of Lost. Now if you ever want to talk about real sports then LMK. You call yourself Greek yet i haven't seen you mention your countries great victory in 2004

 

[WS= World Series] Yeah, I know about the '04 Euro Championship. They also won the European Basketball Championship in '87 & '05, but the Cubs are far more important to me. After all, I was born and raised in America, my friend.

[FlyingDonut]

If you believe the owners of the Cleveland Indians were losing money over that period, there's really no hope, as you're bathing in Bud Selig's Kool-Aid.

 

The Indians blew their team up in 2002, so of course they have a small payroll now. The payrolls for the Indians and the Yankees were essentially at par in 2001.

[TheWatcher]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

 

 

Actually, they won it in '04

 

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox

 

 

Well, the Cubs haven't won it since '08 and haven't been in the WS since '45.

 

Yeah but we had a dynasty in '07 / '08! Back-to-back baby!

 

 

They kicked during the Deadball era (thumbs u

[the blob]

It only makes sense to not have a few really good teams and a bunch of ok/bad ones.

-------------------------------------------------

 

Because there have been a bunch of lowish payroll teams in the last 5-6 years who have managed to compete very effectively, so what's the point? Oakland, Minnesota, the Indians, Florida. And medium payroll teams like the Cardinals and Whitesox too.

 

And the "cap" in basketball (and hockey), isn't real. Maybe it has changed, the Knicks had like twice the payroll of some other teams. It just limits your ability to make deals. The Rangers also had a huge payrolls.

 

Football, I think, has a harder cap.

[Pirate]

My first memories were watching the Yankees on Channel 11 with my grandparents in the mid-70s.

 

My first visit to the Stadium was in July of 1979, when I saw my hero, Thurman Munson, in one of his last games.

 

Rizzuto and Bill White! My visits were during the horrible Mattingly years. My dad wasn't a baseball fan and would only go as far as the swamp to see games, so I saw alot of Mets games growing up

[shadroch]

What the Yankees can do is make mistakes - Carl Pavano anyone? That being said, teams that person_without_enough_empathy and moan about not being able to spend money should just shut up. Carl Pohlhad is one of the 400 most weathy people in America. Spend some money. The owners of the Kansas City Royals are also in that top 400 list. The Cleveland Indians are a money-making machine.

 

Further, to compare the teams on salaries is, essentially, irrelevant. You need to compare teams within divisions, as that's all that matters. You want to see ineptitude, look at the Orioles and the White Sox. These are all opening day numbers, and have, of course, changed significantly, but this is a good starting point.

 

AL East

New York Yankees $ 189,639,045 (note that $20 million of this is paid by Texas)

Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214

Toronto Blue Jays $ 81,942,800

Baltimore Orioles $ 93,554,808

Tampa Bay Devil Rays $ 24,123,500

 

AL Central

Cleveland Indians $ 61,673,267

Detroit Tigers $ 95,180,369

Minnesota Twins $ 71,439,500

Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833

Kansas City Royals $ 67,116,500

 

AL West

Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333

Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833

Oakland Athletics $ 79,366,940

Texas Rangers $ 68,318,675 (add the $20 million paid to ARod)

 

NL East

Philadelphia Phillies $ 89,428,213

New York Mets $ 115,231,663

Atlanta Braves $ 87,290,833

Washington Nationals $ 37,347,500

Florida Marlins $ 30,507,000

 

NL Central

Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332

Milwaukee Brewers $ 70,986,500

St. Louis Cardinals $ 90,286,823

Cincinnati Reds $ 68,904,980

Houston Astros $ 87,759,000

Pittsburgh Pirates $ 38,537,833

 

NL West

Arizona Diamondbacks $ 52,067,546

Colorado Rockies $ 54,424,000

San Diego Padres $ 58,110,567

Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524

San Francisco Giants $ 90,219,056

 

Do the Yankees have a massive payroll? Yes, but so do their division rival Red Sox. The team that's a joke in the American League is Tampa Bay, who receives nearly $40 million per year in revenue sharing - of which the majority comes from the Yankees - while only spending $25 million on salaries.

 

 

The Cleveland Indians sold out every single game for 454 game in a row during 1999-2001 and this didn't help them spend insane amounts of money. We lost Belle, Thome, Manny, Roberto Alomar, Colon and others. The team is still a business and the owners were still losing money.

 

Please show me the list of baseball owners who have lost money owning a MLB team? If teams were losing money,why are there a bevy of buyers waiting to buy one and why do the values of the franchises increase with each sale?These are not rich sports nuts buying the teams,they are hugely successful business people who realize a great opportunity when they see one.Stop drinking the owner-supplied kool-aid and think for yourself.

[the blob]

The payrolls for the Indians and the Yankees were essentially at par in 2001.

-------------------------

 

Yup, the Yankees were at $112 million and Cleveland was at $93 million (as were the Mets), not a vast difference and can be attributed to the need to pay a premium in NY to offset higher income taxes, etc. George went a little insane after losing the 2001 WS and vowed to throw every penny he could into the team. Remember, before 2002 NY didn't chase big name free agents like nuts. They signed Mussina, but guys like Clemens and Cone and Tino were picked up via trades. The core of the team was homegrown and other key parts were "good" players who became "really good" once they put on the pinstripes (O'Neill, Brosius) and weren't highly paid to start.

 

The Dodgers were at $109 million in 2001 and the Red Sox were at $110 million!

 

Oh yeah, in 1998, when the Yankees set a then AL record for wins, they were #2 in payroll, behind the Orioles! http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salary/98teams.htm

 

($71 million to $65 million)

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salary/01salaries.htm#yankees

 

It's interesting to see the teams that are LOWER now than in 2001 after 6 years of alleged economic prosperity, etc. that would normally raise salaries. I guess their owners want to keep more loot!

[the blob]

in case you haven't guessed, i find all these baseball #s interesting, salary, batting average, whatever.

[carcrawfordfan]

This is from Forbes.com and sorry if these are out of order.

 

2007

 

 

%2Bnumberfield1&resultsSortCategoryName=Current+Value&category1=category&category2=category&passKeyword='>2005 Values

 

2004

 

Just some stats on the Yankees and the value of the $$ they spend on them compared to the wins they get.

 

I also find this interesting.

 

 

 

 

[cd4ever]

You really cannot use payroll as an excuse for any team doing well. At the present time there is no salary cap in baseball, so the playing field is even for everyone in that aspect. The reason teams like NY have a big payroll is because they have a huge fan base/followers. Here in Boston, Fenway Park has sold out every game for the last 6+ years. If they had a bigger ballpark/more seating, it still would sell out.

 

The teams that do not have a big payroll usually are the teams that have very little fans in their stadiums.

Huh? The playing field is not even at all!! New York and Boston have millions more potential fans to start with compared to say, Kansas City or Pittsburgh. Which immediately translates into many millions of additional dollars in tv and radio rights. Plus the competition for seats allows them to charge higher prices.

 

It is nowehere near even!

 

 

[TheShadowKnows]

As a fellow Met fan, let me say this:

 

1) the Mets pathetic collapse may have ended yesterday, but it was this whole month -- they didn't deserve to get bailed out yesterday.

 

2) Billy Wagner. Please STFU. Your pathetic efforts and non existant appearance down thhe stretch was ridiculous. I don't want to hear you criticizing anyone.

 

3) the Phillies deserved to win -- they had an incredible finish and played well every step of the way. Likewise, the Mets deserved to lose -- for a collapse like this, the Manager deserves to be fired.

 

4) If any other fans want to ride Met fans, as a Met fan, you have to take it. Because your team just completed the biggest collapse down the stretch, we've got nothing to say, nothing to coment on.

 

There will be NO recovery from this until the Mets get to another world series.

Wow,

That was really classy.I can tell your no bandwagon fan.

D

[TheShadowKnows]

As a fellow Met fan, let me say this:

 

1) the Mets pathetic collapse may have ended yesterday, but it was this whole month -- they didn't deserve to get bailed out yesterday.

 

2) Billy Wagner. Please STFU. Your pathetic efforts and non existant appearance down thhe stretch was ridiculous. I don't want to hear you criticizing anyone.

 

3) the Phillies deserved to win -- they had an incredible finish and played well every step of the way. Likewise, the Mets deserved to lose -- for a collapse like this, the Manager deserves to be fired.

 

4) If any other fans want to ride Met fans, as a Met fan, you have to take it. Because your team just completed the biggest collapse down the stretch, we've got nothing to say, nothing to coment on.

 

There will be NO recovery from this until the Mets get to another world series.

Wow,

That was really classy.I can tell your no bandwagon fan.

D

Me too,

 

Go Tribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

make sure you remember saying this...

 

they could go all the way this year

(meaning taking out the Bosox too)

 

They're that good!

 

 

(thumbs u

All the AL teams are playing well.I could see both Boston and NY going out in the first round.

[arexcrooke]

You really cannot use payroll as an excuse for any team doing well. At the present time there is no salary cap in baseball, so the playing field is even for everyone in that aspect. The reason teams like NY have a big payroll is because they have a huge fan base/followers. Here in Boston, Fenway Park has sold out every game for the last 6+ years. If they had a bigger ballpark/more seating, it still would sell out.

 

The teams that do not have a big payroll usually are the teams that have very little fans in their stadiums.

Huh? The playing field is not even at all!! New York and Boston have millions more potential fans to start with compared to say, Kansas City or Pittsburgh. Which immediately translates into many millions of additional dollars in tv and radio rights. Plus the competition for seats allows them to charge higher prices.

 

It is nowehere near even!

 

Go back and read how the clubs like KC are GETTING millions of dollars a year in baseball welfare!

[Sal]

You really cannot use payroll as an excuse for any team doing well. At the present time there is no salary cap in baseball, so the playing field is even for everyone in that aspect. The reason teams like NY have a big payroll is because they have a huge fan base/followers. Here in Boston, Fenway Park has sold out every game for the last 6+ years. If they had a bigger ballpark/more seating, it still would sell out.

 

The teams that do not have a big payroll usually are the teams that have very little fans in their stadiums.

Huh? The playing field is not even at all!! New York and Boston have millions more potential fans to start with compared to say, Kansas City or Pittsburgh. Which immediately translates into many millions of additional dollars in tv and radio rights. Plus the competition for seats allows them to charge higher prices.

 

It is nowehere near even!

 

 

i think the trick is doing a comparative analysis regarding revenue vs. salaries. if the Spankees are making 200 million with their various revenue sources and spending 180 million, then that's exactly the same as the Indians spending 90 million against revenues of 100 million.

 

now, in this completely-yanked-out-of-my-butt numbers game, if the Indians are spending 60 million against revenues of 100 million, then their fans should all be angry at their ownership group, not Geo. Steinbrenner.

 

but the problem with this is that none of the teams will open their books, so all we can really do is make WAGs at what their revenue and expense streams look like

[marvelcollector]

because the Mets suffered the worst collapse is baseball history?

 

Typically, I would be kinder, but Met fan arrogance in June has earned them torture in October.

 

Well said.

 

That entire organization brought this on themselves. Bad dharma= bad kharma.

 

They have been incredibly presumptive, talking of dynasty (while not even having gotten to the World Series).

 

As I have been saying for two years now this team is overrated (vastly overrated by some), and simply doesn't have the talent that the Met propaganda machine (which is the best in baseball) would have people believe.

 

....but I don't include Danny in that arrogant bad sport group.