Color Brightness & Shine vs. Stress Marks

[RandomSidekick001-migratio]

Hey all.

 

Kind of new to grading, and I've noticed that stress marks (i.e. folds, creases, staple wear, color chips, etc.) seem to lower a comic's grade much more than fading color on the cover and/or on the pages themselves does. Am I imagining this, or is that the case? Also, I know many GA comics weren't "glossy", but were comics from the 60s and 70s simply less shiny/bright/colorful than they were in the 90s, or have they all faded?

 

- Sidekick

[fantastic_four]

I don't think the standards are very clear on color or gloss loss. A big part of the problem is, how do you recognize that color loss is present, and once you recognize it, how do you measure it? It seems like you'd have to have another copy of the same book to compare to that didn't have color loss...but...how do you know the copy you're comparing against doesn't have a small degree of color loss also? And for gloss...what procedure do you use to determine how much gloss is present? How do you describe different levels of gloss?

 

It's just so tough to identify and measure! I haven't seen anybody attempt to come up with a way to do it yet that I can recall. I mentioned once before that the qualitative descriptors from the new 2002 OGG need more severity measurement types than just lengths like 1/32", 1/16", etc...you can't measure color or gloss in terms of inches, so it's unclear from the current standards as to how you downgrade for it.

[RandomSidekick001-migratio]

Hmm, good points about how subjective things like color and brightness would be, though from what I've read, it sounds like the amount of downgrading for the "accumulation" of measurable defects is pretty subjective too. I guess what I'm getting at, though, is that I keep seeing comics that look really nice overall, but have some crease or other measurable stress marks getting lower ratings than less visually appealing ones without the stress marks. Hence all the posts about "ugly" 7.5s and "pretty" 6.0s, etc. When considering a comic for my personal collection, rather than resale value (because of the grading issue), I think I would generally prefer a bright, colorful-looking comic with, say, a blunted corner, to a duller one without the blunted corner, but the dull one seems to get a higher grade more often than not. I'm just wondering if I'm out of the mainstream for thinking the overall visual appeal of a comic should have more weight than specific defects.

 

- SK

[uclapeterg]

I don't think you are out of the mainstream. That's why a lot of us are "buy the book, not the label". CGC has a certain set of criteria for grading books which may or may not meet your own. I'm like you -- I would rather have a "solid" book with some spine stresses that has maintained most of its gloss than a "perfect" book with fading color.

[Shield]

I couldn't agree more. I hate faded books. I have a Pep #13 that looks VF, but it's faded all to heck. My #14 is a beat up Good, but full of shiny gloss. I enjoy looking at the #14 much more.

[ninanina]

I've had some personal experience in grading books with an overstreet advisor. We meet every once in awhile and I bring some of my comics to grade and we just compare notes. On a very "general" level, you usually get a certain amount of cover gloss loss = to the amount of accumulated defects in a book.

 

Are you with me so far?

 

Usually, an accumulation of 5 or 6 stress cracks with some blunting on the corners gives you a grade in and around a VF-. Often, a book like this has some wear on the cover. I fully expected my X-Men 94 to grade as a VF-. When Doug looked at it, he gave it a VF to my pleasant surprise. When I asked him why, with all the other defects, he explained the cover gloss was like new - hence the elevated grade.

 

So, based on that I would have to say if you somehow get a nice glossy finish on a book, you may want to consider upping the grade to the next 1/2 level.

 

Just my thoughts.

[fantastic_four]

If you've got a high grade book with few or no stress marks, can it also have lost all of its gloss? It's unclear to me what causes gloss to dissipate other than handling defects.

 

I have to admit that I'm mostly gloss-blind...is that anything like color blindness? I don't even know how you determine whether a book has gloss in a consistently repeatable way. I can tell that some books are shiny and some aren't, but other than that exceptionately simple criterion, I'm blind to it. I suspect that angling it to a bright light allows you to see gloss more effectively, but I haven't specifically looked for it enough yet to know if that's the best way to look for it.

[ninanina]

I purchased a collection of comics including FF's, Daredevils and some others that did have the tell-tale symptom of having a great "shine" when exposed to a bright light. Just angling the comic up and down gives you the desired effect. Then it hit me. The gloss on some of these books were so bright, you could still see a perceptible 3D layer of the ink on the comic. I am thinking this is one of the first things to go after a comic loses it's gloss. So, look for that 3D effect in a hi-gloss cover to appreciate it. For some reason, this 3D effect is absent from Modern Comics. Perhaps it has something to do with the new way they are printed.

 

Anyway, when you get this gloss with no fingerprints, no wear on SOME areas of the cover, no creases to detract the effect, no foxing on a 30 or 35 year old comic, it's pretty amazing. Then, I wondered why these comics (never bagged) kept their gloss.

 

I do know many were read once and put on the pile. There they sat. So, don't handle the goods, or at least use common sense when handling your comics. These comics were never bagged. They did have a few dings as a result from normal wear and tear from just sitting there, but the cover gloss was like new. So, you don't necessarily have to bag the comics to retain gloss. I have the comics to prove it.

 

Anybody else notice this 3D effect? Surprised nobody's mentioned it on the forum yet. It's just a perceptable "depth" you see along the edge of a color. But, again, I've only noticed it on Silver Age comics.

 

[Bronty]

I've noticed it. I know exactly what you mean. Noticed it on dc's too. I have a batlash 4 that looks like a topographical map!

[THE_BEYONDER]

My FF 108 and HULK 212 have gloss like that....