Do NOT Bid on my ASM CGC books please - books are stolen.

[OldGuy]

What about the money the store owner paid?

[supapimp]

I kind of had an agreement with him this morning.

 

while "taking the kids to the pool"?

[joe_collector]

Another cautionary tale of buying and selling traceable CGC comics. Through no fault of our own, we may have stolen comics in our own collections, and the next time we list them for sale.....

 

It also brings up a huge potential for fraud, as anyone could provide a list of serial numbers they have owned over a period of years....

[ghoulaid]

What about the money the store owner paid?

 

Unfortunately, in cases like this, the store owner is out of luck (and his money).

[lighthouse]

What about the money the store owner paid?

 

Unfortunately, in cases like this, the store owner is out of luck (and his money).

 

Which is why I require a driver's license on anything I buy in my shop (beyond about $75)...

 

Honest people won't hesitate... And the only crooks who will offer their license are the ones who have their tracks so well covered you won't eat the loss anyway...

 

And yes, I miss out on some good deals... deals that may be a little "too" good... But it's a whole lot safer... And it makes my life easier come tax time, since you get some pretty strange looks if you try to explain that you paid cash for $50K worth of comics during the year.

 

"No really. That money got spent on inventory! I didn't just take it home with me!"

[fantastic_four]

And the only crooks who will offer their license are the ones who have their tracks so well covered you won't eat the loss anyway...

 

What do you mean by this?

[lighthouse]

And the only crooks who will offer their license are the ones who have their tracks so well covered you won't eat the loss anyway...

 

What do you mean by this?

 

I have bought merchandise before that I just know deep down was stolen, but the thief was so confident there was no way he could be caught that he was perfectly willing to offer his id.

 

All I am required to do is exercise due diligence in ensuring that I am not purchasing stolen property. If a guy comes into my shop with a box of the latest Magic The Gathering boosters and offers it to me for $40, I know with certainty that he did not purchase it honestly. But if he gives me his driver's license info, I would be a fool not to buy it. He won't give me that info if there is any way he could be caught. So I know there is no way I will be forced to return the merchandise and eat my cost on it...

 

I am probably offered stolen merchandise at least once a week. It's just part of owning a comic shop...

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

I am probably offered stolen merchandise at least once a week. It's just part of owning a comic shop...

 

People probably snag books off your "Wall" while the Goth princess is occupado, then turn around and sell it to you a week later

[lighthouse]

I am probably offered stolen merchandise at least once a week. It's just part of owning a comic shop...

 

People probably snag books off your "Wall" while the Goth princess is occupado, then turn around and sell it to you a week later

 

She's never occupado for long... She's like Jiffy Lube...

 

Get in, get out, get on with your life...

 

And who says I'd buy junk like that anyway?

[realitytrip]

I have bought merchandise before that I just know deep down was stolen, but the thief was so confident there was no way he could be caught that he was perfectly willing to offer his id.

 

All I am required to do is exercise due diligence in ensuring that I am not purchasing stolen property. If a guy comes into my shop with a box of the latest Magic The Gathering boosters and offers it to me for $40, I know with certainty that he did not purchase it honestly. But if he gives me his driver's license info, I would be a fool not to buy it. He won't give me that info if there is any way he could be caught. So I know there is no way I will be forced to return the merchandise and eat my cost on it...

 

 

Ok, (deep breath), let me preface the following by saying that I have had nothing but respect and admiration for lighthouse's informative posts and great deals he offers to posters here. And I sincerely hope that I am reading the above incorrectly (and if I am I will be more than happy to apologize) but after reading the above I have to say......

 

Waitaminute, I am getting a serious disconnect. You see NOTHING wrong with taking merchandise that you *know* to be stolen as long as there is no way you take the hit? As long as you can honestly state, "He told me it wasn't stolen officer." As long as no gets caught, it's all above board? The damage has already been done, so why not profit off the illegal activities? You would be a FOOL not to buy (and profit off of) "hot" merchandise because it could never be traced to you?

I honestly don't what to say. Making money off of goods *you* know are stolen is about as wrong as it gets. I'm sorry. I find the above statement condoning buying stolen goods as long as it won't hurt your pocketbook appalling and disturbing.

 

The part that disturbs me the most is if you, a respected, cautious dealer are willing to do this, then what are the shadier dealers doing on a regular basis? Its a wonder stolen comics aren't more of a black market....

 

Maybe (and I hope I am) I am just reading your remarks incorrectly, but it sounds like the only caveat you have with dealing with stolen goods is your own possibility of loss. If there is none, than hey, let the green roll in....

 

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

The part that disturbs me the most is if you, a respected, cautious dealer are willing to do this,

 

Ahh...this assumption. Herein lies the problem...

[lighthouse]

I have bought merchandise before that I just know deep down was stolen, but the thief was so confident there was no way he could be caught that he was perfectly willing to offer his id.

 

All I am required to do is exercise due diligence in ensuring that I am not purchasing stolen property. If a guy comes into my shop with a box of the latest Magic The Gathering boosters and offers it to me for $40, I know with certainty that he did not purchase it honestly. But if he gives me his driver's license info, I would be a fool not to buy it. He won't give me that info if there is any way he could be caught. So I know there is no way I will be forced to return the merchandise and eat my cost on it...

 

 

Ok, (deep breath), let me preface the following by saying that I have had nothing but respect and admiration for lighthouse's informative posts and great deals he offers to posters here. And I sincerely hope that I am reading the above incorrectly (and if I am I will be more than happy to apologize) but after reading the above I have to say......

 

Waitaminute, I am getting a serious disconnect. You see NOTHING wrong with taking merchandise that you *know* to be stolen as long as there is no way you take the hit? As long as you can honestly state, "He told me it wasn't stolen officer." As long as no gets caught, it's all above board? The damage has already been done, so why not profit off the illegal activities? You would be a FOOL not to buy (and profit off of) "hot" merchandise because it could never be traced to you?

I honestly don't what to say. Making money off of goods *you* know are stolen is about as wrong as it gets. I'm sorry. I find the above statement condoning buying stolen goods as long as it won't hurt your pocketbook appalling and disturbing.

 

The part that disturbs me the most is if you, a respected, cautious dealer are willing to do this, then what are the shadier dealers doing on a regular basis? Its a wonder stolen comics aren't more of a black market....

 

Maybe (and I hope I am) I am just reading your remarks incorrectly, but it sounds like the only caveat you have with dealing with stolen goods is your own possibility of loss. If there is none, than hey, let the green roll in....

 

 

Okay... Perhaps that did come off a little different from what I intended...

 

Without getting into a Clintonesque discussion of what the word "know" means, let me clarify. I have never, and will never, knowingly buy stolen collectibles. And I haven't knowingly purchased stolen goods of any kind since high school...

 

But I tend to be a pretty good judge of character, and in my years of being a union steward and eventually union president I have seen all kinds of shady characters. That's not to say I can't be conned or can't be fooled, but I have seen all manner of folks who skirt the law. That experience has served me well as a comics dealer. I can spot shoplifting crews in a heartbeat, and have busted more than two dozen people attempting the five-finger-discount. It's also given me an edge in negotiations, because while I am no Doyle Brunson or Phil Ivey, I do just fine at reading my opposition.

 

Consequently, there are many times when folks come into my shop to sell me stuff and my little alarm bells start going off. It could be that they stole the books. It could be that they are selling stuff to buy something they shouldn't be buying. It could be that they don't want their spouse to know they have this extra money. It could be they are so nervous about the upcoming negotiation that they give off a vibe of panic. Whatever the case, I get people who come in that I just know something is going on. Someone else might not get the same vibe; someone else might get it even stronger...

 

But it puts me in a position of having to evaluate the safety of doing the deal... Most times I can clear up the situation with just a bit of polite conversation. But sometimes that doesn't work. Sometimes I have to make a judgment call, without having clear evidence either way. And in that situation, I probe for more information. Just as when a suspect auction appears the folks here have some protocols they go through to see if the seller is legit, I have similar protocols to help me evaluate the guy on the other side of the counter. One of the biggies is asking for identification. It weeds out a huge percentage of people who I'm worried about. The guy selling his comics to buy weed doesn't care about me having his id. The guy selling his comics to go to the strip club without his wife knowing doesn't care either.

 

I brought up the box of Magic before. At $40, I know he didn't buy it. But he may have won it in a tournament. He may have traded for it from his friends. It's also possible he stole it. 99% of the people who have stolen something will not give their id. So if he has no qualms about providing it, I have to really question whether it makes sense to turn the deal down. I have investors I am responsible to. They have entrusted me to get them the best return I can on their money. If I turn down a purchase like that, I need to be extremely confident it was the right choice to make.

 

I am probably 20x more likely to turn down stolen merchandise than a typical shop. I can tell that simply by the number of people who conveniently "forgot" their id when I ask for it. But I have no doubt that some of the merchandise I have purchased in the past has been stolen. But I have never had the police arrive for anything I have purchased, and I get enough calls from the police dept about other stores who have that I know it's a very regular occurrence.

 

You mentioned earlier that I am cautious, and that is absolutely true. But that caution comes from having seen enough of the bad side of humanity to know that I can't turn a blind eye. And that caution means I am not naive enough to think no one has used me as a fence in the past. Of course they have. But as much as I trust in my gut when it comes to this sort of thing, I also don't want to judge people guilty without any evidence. So sometimes, I have to make the choice to trust that the deal was genuine, even if there is part of me that isn't so sure...

 

Back to my second sentence, it comes down to the difference between knowing, and "knowing"...

 

And believe me, I don't take any offense at you bringing this up. I am no saint, but I have no problems talking about this... (or anything else if my posting record is any indication)

[lighthouse]

The part that disturbs me the most is if you, a respected, cautious dealer are willing to do this,

 

Ahh...this assumption. Herein lies the problem...

 

... Thanks Darth.. I appreciate the vote of confidence...

[realitytrip]

 

Okay... Perhaps that did come off a little different from what I intended...

 

Without getting into a Clintonesque discussion of what the word "know" means, let me clarify. I have never, and will never, knowingly buy stolen collectibles. And I haven't knowingly purchased stolen goods of any kind since high school...

 

 

Thank you for clarifying that. The way it came off to me the first time, it seemed a tacit acknowledgment of theft, even if in a wink, wink, nudge, nudge way. I appreciate your explanation and for your clarification of the matter. Having a gut feeling is a LOT different than KNOWING. Obviously this subject is one of my hot buttons and easily sets me off (well that, and it has been a crappy week, RIP Giants )

soooooooo, back to your regularily scheduled thread hijackings everyone

[ablue]

I have bought merchandise before that I just know deep down was stolen, but the thief was so confident there was no way he could be caught that he was perfectly willing to offer his id.

 

All I am required to do is exercise due diligence in ensuring that I am not purchasing stolen property. If a guy comes into my shop with a box of the latest Magic The Gathering boosters and offers it to me for $40, I know with certainty that he did not purchase it honestly. But if he gives me his driver's license info, I would be a fool not to buy it. He won't give me that info if there is any way he could be caught. So I know there is no way I will be forced to return the merchandise and eat my cost on it...

 

 

Ok, (deep breath), let me preface the following by saying that I have had nothing but respect and admiration for lighthouse's informative posts and great deals he offers to posters here. And I sincerely hope that I am reading the above incorrectly (and if I am I will be more than happy to apologize) but after reading the above I have to say......

 

Waitaminute, I am getting a serious disconnect. You see NOTHING wrong with taking merchandise that you *know* to be stolen as long as there is no way you take the hit? As long as you can honestly state, "He told me it wasn't stolen officer." As long as no gets caught, it's all above board? The damage has already been done, so why not profit off the illegal activities? You would be a FOOL not to buy (and profit off of) "hot" merchandise because it could never be traced to you?

I honestly don't what to say. Making money off of goods *you* know are stolen is about as wrong as it gets. I'm sorry. I find the above statement condoning buying stolen goods as long as it won't hurt your pocketbook appalling and disturbing.

 

The part that disturbs me the most is if you, a respected, cautious dealer are willing to do this, then what are the shadier dealers doing on a regular basis? Its a wonder stolen comics aren't more of a black market....

 

Maybe (and I hope I am) I am just reading your remarks incorrectly, but it sounds like the only caveat you have with dealing with stolen goods is your own possibility of loss. If there is none, than hey, let the green roll in....

 

 

Okay... Perhaps that did come off a little different from what I intended...

 

Without getting into a Clintonesque discussion of what the word "know" means, let me clarify. I have never, and will never, knowingly buy stolen collectibles. And I haven't knowingly purchased stolen goods of any kind since high school...

 

But I tend to be a pretty good judge of character, and in my years of being a union steward and eventually union president I have seen all kinds of shady characters. That's not to say I can't be conned or can't be fooled, but I have seen all manner of folks who skirt the law. That experience has served me well as a comics dealer. I can spot shoplifting crews in a heartbeat, and have busted more than two dozen people attempting the five-finger-discount. It's also given me an edge in negotiations, because while I am no Doyle Brunson or Phil Ivey, I do just fine at reading my opposition.

 

Consequently, there are many times when folks come into my shop to sell me stuff and my little alarm bells start going off. It could be that they stole the books. It could be that they are selling stuff to buy something they shouldn't be buying. It could be that they don't want their spouse to know they have this extra money. It could be they are so nervous about the upcoming negotiation that they give off a vibe of panic. Whatever the case, I get people who come in that I just know something is going on. Someone else might not get the same vibe; someone else might get it even stronger...

 

But it puts me in a position of having to evaluate the safety of doing the deal... Most times I can clear up the situation with just a bit of polite conversation. But sometimes that doesn't work. Sometimes I have to make a judgment call, without having clear evidence either way. And in that situation, I probe for more information. Just as when a suspect auction appears the folks here have some protocols they go through to see if the seller is legit, I have similar protocols to help me evaluate the guy on the other side of the counter. One of the biggies is asking for identification. It weeds out a huge percentage of people who I'm worried about. The guy selling his comics to buy weed doesn't care about me having his id. The guy selling his comics to go to the strip club without his wife knowing doesn't care either.

 

I brought up the box of Magic before. At $40, I know he didn't buy it. But he may have won it in a tournament. He may have traded for it from his friends. It's also possible he stole it. 99% of the people who have stolen something will not give their id. So if he has no qualms about providing it, I have to really question whether it makes sense to turn the deal down. I have investors I am responsible to. They have entrusted me to get them the best return I can on their money. If I turn down a purchase like that, I need to be extremely confident it was the right choice to make.

 

I am probably 20x more likely to turn down stolen merchandise than a typical shop. I can tell that simply by the number of people who conveniently "forgot" their id when I ask for it. But I have no doubt that some of the merchandise I have purchased in the past has been stolen. But I have never had the police arrive for anything I have purchased, and I get enough calls from the police dept about other stores who have that I know it's a very regular occurrence.

 

You mentioned earlier that I am cautious, and that is absolutely true. But that caution comes from having seen enough of the bad side of humanity to know that I can't turn a blind eye. And that caution means I am not naive enough to think no one has used me as a fence in the past. Of course they have. But as much as I trust in my gut when it comes to this sort of thing, I also don't want to judge people guilty without any evidence. So sometimes, I have to make the choice to trust that the deal was genuine, even if there is part of me that isn't so sure...

 

Back to my second sentence, it comes down to the difference between knowing, and "knowing"...

 

And believe me, I don't take any offense at you bringing this up. I am no saint, but I have no problems talking about this... (or anything else if my posting record is any indication)

 

 

So... If ,say some guy/girl in their 20's came to your store with a collection of goldenage comics with Action#1, Superman, etc.,. and un-slabbed, offered you this collection for $500.00 for just some quick cash.

Say this person did not want to give their id you would refuse the deal?

Just wondering. Now be honest

 

[lighthouse]

So... If ,say some guy/girl in their 20's came to your store with a collection of goldenage comics with Action#1, Superman, etc.,. and un-slabbed, offered you this collection for $500.00 for just some quick cash.

Say this person did not want to give their id you would refuse the deal?

Just wondering. Now be honest

 

Yes I absolutely would refuse (although my refusal would take the form of saying I don't have that kind of cash on hand and would have to write them a check).

 

Even if I was willing to buy them "knowing" they were stolen, I would have to assume that anyone stupid enough to offer them at that price was also too stupid to cover their tracks well. I'd keep them in the store long enough to get nice clear camera shots from several different angles, record their license plate number if possible, and be on the phone to the dealer-theft-network within seconds of their departure. Probably see a nice healthy reward coming down the pipe for my troubles...

 

I had a guy a couple weeks ago offer me a pound of weed for $175. Now I don't smoke, but I know plenty of people who do. Even still, there is no way I was touching that deal, not even to direct him to anyone I know. Because any insufficiently_thoughtful_person who's going to try to dump the product that cheap is dumb enough to tell everyone who will listen who he sold it to. And the former owner is not someone I feel like meeting...

[lighthouse]

Sorry, I didn't see where you mentioned it might be a girl, ablue...

 

What does this girl look like? That may affect my decision...

[lighthouse]

One final clarification on the ablue scenario...

 

"Knowing" they were stolen, if these people would take a check, I would definitely buy the books. The books have a better chance of getting back to their original owners from my hands than they do from an unknown dealer. Action 1 in particular is a pretty easy book to trace; I know the names of four people within 400 miles of here who own copies and serious Golden Age collectors tend to know each other... So tracking down the original owner wouldn't be that difficult. I'd put the word out and see about finding the proper owner. I have no doubt that that person would be more than willing to compensate me for my expenses (and then some) especially given my assistance in busting the thieves.

 

If by some fluke, no owner appeared... well then I guess I would have a pretty nice book to add to the store's inventory for a while.

[Darthdiesel]

"Knowing" they were stolen, if these people would take a check, I would definitely buy the books.

 

Making sure of course that the check was "rubberier" than the Trojan Party Pak (48ct) you went through at greggy's joint...

[lighthouse]

... Nah, I need them to receive traceable compensation for it... adds another charge to the list for the prosecution...

 

Besides, you don't think I'd get $500 worth of mileage just telling the story here on the forums?