Will global recession affect comic valuations??

[The Black Hand ®]

If they were to be paid a decent living wage you could find them and I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers. I also don't cross picket lines. I know the genies out of the bottle, but this is one area where we need to go back in time, Illegal immagration is illegal, plain and simple and it's fueled by greed and the promise of cheap labor that doesn't talk back or try to organise.

[Thegoldenage]

I realize that comics have been immune to past recessions (having lived through many of them!) but this time it could be different. Any thoughts?? I think if the **** really hits the fan we could see valuations cut in half.

 

Phil,

 

No field of collectibles is immune to a true recession. The last recession was in 1990-1991, and comic book values were affected negatively then.

 

I think a better question would be to see how comic books have done as a hobby in the past 10-15 years, taking into account inflation, the advent of the Internet, etc...

 

Brian

[Thegoldenage]

If they were to be paid a decent living wage you could find them and I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers. I also don't cross picket lines. I know the genies out of the bottle, but this is one area where we need to go back in time, Illegal immagration is illegal, plain and simple and it's fueled by greed and the promise of cheap labor that doesn't talk back or try to organise.

 

So wanting to be free from oppression has nothing to do with it then?

[MrBedrock]

I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers.

(thumbs u

 

BH, I agree with you that the immigration laws need to be amended, changed, updated, whatever. But you are missing the fact that illegal immigration is also fueled by a genuine desire on the immigrants' part for American $$$$. The greed goes both ways. Because of that, you and I will have entirely differing opinions on how those laws should be changed. I am of the opinion that the border should be completely open. BH? BH? (I hope you didn't just faint )

 

Ah, you are back! Good.

I find it very ironic that a discussion started with you railing on the deplorable working conditions of foreign labor is now about wanting to keep those same workers out of the US, whose jobs are bad for them there (but they have no right to here).

[The Black Hand ®]

My grandfather wanted to be free from oppression so he waited and waited and finally was able to come over legally. He didn't cut in line and he didn't break the law. Whether or not todays illegals are escaping oppression is highly debatable. Sure they want a better life...so did my grandfather but he got it fair and square.

[Transplant]

Thank God the GA forum is immune from the political and controversial stuff in the other parts of the board.

[The Black Hand ®]

I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers.

(thumbs u

 

BH, I agree with you that the immigration laws need to be amended, changed, updated, whatever. But you are missing the fact that illegal immigration is also fueled by a genuine desire on the immigrants' part for American $$$$. The greed goes both ways. Because of that, you and I will have entirely differing opinions on how those laws should be changed. I am of the opinion that the border should be completely open. BH? BH? (I hope you didn't just faint )

 

Ah, you are back! Good.

I find it very ironic that a discussion started with you railing on the deplorable working conditions of foreign labor is now about wanting to keep those same workers out of the US, whose jobs are bad for them there (but they have no right to here).

 

Apples and oranges.

[TupennyConan]

I fear we will set-up a caste system here with any kind of temp worker provisions (if we haven't already adopted a de facto underclass with open border policies; for that matter, what would make a de jure one any better?; once legalized then we have stamped it as OK with us!!).

 

Also, I love comics: cheap ones!!

[Thegoldenage]

My grandfather wanted to be free from oppression so he waited and waited and finally was able to come over legally. He didn't cut in line and he didn't break the law. Whether or not todays illegals are escaping oppression is highly debatable. Sure they want a better life...so did my grandfather but he got it fair and square.

 

My great-grandparents did the same. But that was before racists in Congress made it extremely difficult to lawfully immigrate to this country. The earliest immigration laws were designed to stop Chinese people from coming here (note that the laws weren't aimed at Northern Europeans).

 

And if you think that the people trying to come here from nations such as Iraq, North Korea and Cuba aren't oppressed I suggest you do some homework on what goes on over there.

[batman_fan]

If they were to be paid a decent living wage you could find them and I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers. I also don't cross picket lines. I know the genies out of the bottle, but this is one area where we need to go back in time, Illegal immagration is illegal, plain and simple and it's fueled by greed and the promise of cheap labor that doesn't talk back or try to organise.

 

I live in San Jose CA where houses in our area sell for 1mil to 1.4 mil. Sure I can get my grass cut for 120/month and my house cleaned for 140/month but for that "Cheap" labor, I (and all my neighbors) have to send our kids to a private school at a huge cost. I pay higher taxes, etc. The hourly rate paid may be low, but it is more than made up in other areas. At the end of the day, I would be better off if It cost more for the gardener and house cleaner and I could send my kid to a public school.

[The Black Hand ®]

Very good point. (thumbs u

[Aman619]

If they were to be paid a decent living wage you could find them and I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers. I also don't cross picket lines. I know the genies out of the bottle, but this is one area where we need to go back in time, Illegal immagration is illegal, plain and simple and it's fueled by greed and the promise of cheap labor that doesn't talk back or try to organise.

 

I live in San Jose CA where houses in our area sell for 1mil to 1.4 mil. Sure I can get my grass cut for 120/month and my house cleaned for 140/month but for that "Cheap" labor, I (and all my neighbors) have to send our kids to a private school at a huge cost. I pay higher taxes, etc. The hourly rate paid may be low, but it is more than made up in other areas. At the end of the day, I would be better off if It cost more for the gardener and house cleaner and I could send my kid to a public school.

 

good point. But you (and others in CA) feel that way now, when the reason you are in this condition is that everyone only looked at the cheap side of th eequation, paying low wages to illegals all these years... and now facing the higher costs for educating and treating them... Seems a fair deal that you pay the extra costs to keep your subsidized low exoenses low! Something about makoing ones bed.... Now that things have tilted against CA, people want to throw these workers out?

 

[batman_fan]

If they were to be paid a decent living wage you could find them and I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers. I also don't cross picket lines. I know the genies out of the bottle, but this is one area where we need to go back in time, Illegal immagration is illegal, plain and simple and it's fueled by greed and the promise of cheap labor that doesn't talk back or try to organise.

 

I live in San Jose CA where houses in our area sell for 1mil to 1.4 mil. Sure I can get my grass cut for 120/month and my house cleaned for 140/month but for that "Cheap" labor, I (and all my neighbors) have to send our kids to a private school at a huge cost. I pay higher taxes, etc. The hourly rate paid may be low, but it is more than made up in other areas. At the end of the day, I would be better off if It cost more for the gardener and house cleaner and I could send my kid to a public school.

 

good point. But you (and others in CA) feel that way now, when the reason you are in this condition is that everyone only looked at the cheap side of th eequation, paying low wages to illegals all these years... and now facing the higher costs for educating and treating them... Seems a fair deal that you pay the extra costs to keep your subsidized low exoenses low! Something about makoing ones bed.... Now that things have tilted against CA, people want to throw these workers out?

 

Actually, you have no choice in the matter. My gardener is Russian and a US citizen. My house keeper is Hispanic but also a legal resident. They tell me the price for their service but since there is so much competition, they are forced to offer their service for a lower price. An unfortunite side effect to the low wage. I agree with you that we pay the high taxes, etc because of the low wages needing to be augmented somehow. I don't think this is true only for CA. Look what Walmart does when it moves into a small town, especially in the midwest. Kills the economy but putting family run business out of business and re-hires those people at $7/hr where they were making a reasonable salary before. Sure people can get a jumbo jar of pickles for $3 but they are buying it with foodstamps now.

[The Black Hand ®]

If they were to be paid a decent living wage you could find them and I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers. I also don't cross picket lines. I know the genies out of the bottle, but this is one area where we need to go back in time, Illegal immagration is illegal, plain and simple and it's fueled by greed and the promise of cheap labor that doesn't talk back or try to organise.

 

I live in San Jose CA where houses in our area sell for 1mil to 1.4 mil. Sure I can get my grass cut for 120/month and my house cleaned for 140/month but for that "Cheap" labor, I (and all my neighbors) have to send our kids to a private school at a huge cost. I pay higher taxes, etc. The hourly rate paid may be low, but it is more than made up in other areas. At the end of the day, I would be better off if It cost more for the gardener and house cleaner and I could send my kid to a public school.

 

good point. But you (and others in CA) feel that way now, when the reason you are in this condition is that everyone only looked at the cheap side of th eequation, paying low wages to illegals all these years... and now facing the higher costs for educating and treating them... Seems a fair deal that you pay the extra costs to keep your subsidized low exoenses low! Something about makoing ones bed.... Now that things have tilted against CA, people want to throw these workers out?

 

I don't see how that applies to me...I've never hired an illegal and I buy locally grown produce and grow a lot my own veggies. But many business here do hire illegals, because they work hard and cheap and don't talk back. It's disgusting the greed of these yuppie business class greedheads who all the while talk about liberal causes. These are the same people who twenty years ago started their business with seed money from growing pot. It's all about money and power and it's truly despicable. These clowns are part of a movement that selling this country out.

[Crowzilla]

My grandfather wanted to be free from oppression so he waited and waited and finally was able to come over legally. He didn't cut in line and he didn't break the law. Whether or not todays illegals are escaping oppression is highly debatable. Sure they want a better life...so did my grandfather but he got it fair and square.

 

I have a very good friend who was here on a 10-year visa, but after the events of 9/11 the laws were changed and they found themselves trapped here, unable to return home and with expired permits (even though the visa is still good until 2010).

They are certainly illegal now and if they return home it is a minimum 10-year wait before you can even try to get another visa (if they allow it at all).

What should be done about these types of people?

 

[The Black Hand ®]

My grandfather wanted to be free from oppression so he waited and waited and finally was able to come over legally. He didn't cut in line and he didn't break the law. Whether or not todays illegals are escaping oppression is highly debatable. Sure they want a better life...so did my grandfather but he got it fair and square.

 

I have a very good friend who was here on a 10-year visa, but after the events of 9/11 the laws were changed and they found themselves trapped here, unable to return home and with expired permits (even though the visa is still good until 2010).

They are certainly illegal now and if they return home it is a minimum 10-year wait before you can even try to get another visa (if they allow it at all).

What should be done about these types of people?

 

I can't answer that, the laws should be strictly enforced yet flexible enough for special circumstances so that cases like your friend should be looked at closely.

[Thegoldenage]

My grandfather wanted to be free from oppression so he waited and waited and finally was able to come over legally. He didn't cut in line and he didn't break the law. Whether or not todays illegals are escaping oppression is highly debatable. Sure they want a better life...so did my grandfather but he got it fair and square.

 

I have a very good friend who was here on a 10-year visa, but after the events of 9/11 the laws were changed and they found themselves trapped here, unable to return home and with expired permits (even though the visa is still good until 2010).

They are certainly illegal now and if they return home it is a minimum 10-year wait before you can even try to get another visa (if they allow it at all).

What should be done about these types of people?

 

Ask Lou Dobbs. I'm sure he will tell you.

[Aman619]

If they were to be paid a decent living wage you could find them and I don't eat at restauraunts that employ illegal workers. I also don't cross picket lines. I know the genies out of the bottle, but this is one area where we need to go back in time, Illegal immagration is illegal, plain and simple and it's fueled by greed and the promise of cheap labor that doesn't talk back or try to organise.

 

I live in San Jose CA where houses in our area sell for 1mil to 1.4 mil. Sure I can get my grass cut for 120/month and my house cleaned for 140/month but for that "Cheap" labor, I (and all my neighbors) have to send our kids to a private school at a huge cost. I pay higher taxes, etc. The hourly rate paid may be low, but it is more than made up in other areas. At the end of the day, I would be better off if It cost more for the gardener and house cleaner and I could send my kid to a public school.

 

good point. But you (and others in CA) feel that way now, when the reason you are in this condition is that everyone only looked at the cheap side of th eequation, paying low wages to illegals all these years... and now facing the higher costs for educating and treating them... Seems a fair deal that you pay the extra costs to keep your subsidized low exoenses low! Something about makoing ones bed.... Now that things have tilted against CA, people want to throw these workers out?

 

I don't see how that applies to me...I've never hired an illegal and I buy locally grown produce and grow a lot my own veggies. But many business here do hire illegals, because they work hard and cheap and don't talk back. It's disgusting the greed of these yuppie business class greedheads who all the while talk about liberal causes. These are the same people who twenty years ago started their business with seed money from growing pot. It's all about money and power and it's truly despicable. These clowns are part of a movement that selling this country out.

 

 

I sense great anger! believe me, I dont have any solutions... These workers are needed, but their expenses are expanding. And thne theres the illegal part of the equation. If you or I were Mexican living just outside our borders, we'd be working here for the big bucks too. Maybe not you of course. But people do what they can for their families. Im hoping some compromise solution will be passed because the radical kick-em-out solutions just dont add up.

[The Black Hand ®]

My anger is at the business community who use these illegals and not the illegals themselves, they're only doing what they have to do. Their country needs to create more oppurtunity for them. But, they're not our problem or responsibility. The system is obviously broken and needs to be fixed, how that will happen will be the subject of much debate over the next several years.

[Aman619]

right. but the "business community" is "you and me." It's every small businessman who needs to pay $4 an hour instead of minimum wage to keep profitable. Heres where I dont know the facts: how many of these businesses are piling up millions in profits by saving a few dollars an hour? Isnt it mostly very small businesses doing the hiring? Mom and pops? And people who need theor lawns taken care of? and maids? Arent these workers filling in the cracks of the low paying jobs our sons and daughters just wont consider doing any more?

 

I have friends in CA who are also really pissed off at "those people". Many are very liberal except for this issue! Seems to me they welcomed the bargains and help for so long....until the bill came due.

 

but its definitely a thorny complicated issue. Theyre immigrants like EVERY other American is or was at one time... except they snuck in as opposed to the rest who waited in line. Or were they winked at for so long that even THEY didnt see it as cheating. Nobody was very anxious to deport them when their menial cheal labor was welcomed... wasnt a big secret, or a problem till they stayed on, had kids and occasionally needed to go to the emergency ward.