2008 GRADING CONTEST : ROUND 16

[silverage12c]

So it is a 7.5 and my guess is a 8.5. Not bad for a first time guess.

(thumbs u Not bad at all! This round was odd, as the defect Nik described (minor staple rust at the centerfold) is pretty unusual).

[Mr. Zipper]

I think you're going by Overstreet standards which have rigid thresholds for certain defects. CGC grades from 10.0 down with no rigid thresholds.

 

I think that this Grading Contest is a great learning experience actually (thumbs u

 

Very true.

 

What I can't seem to wrap my brain around is the disparity between "deductions."

 

For instance, a NM-ish looking book can be banged down to as low as 8.0 for nearly invisible flaws like small thumb dents, spinner rack bends or a tiny stain.

 

While, a book that looks like a VFish copy ONLY goes down to 7.5 with rusty staples with migration to the paper.

 

 

Yup, I was the sole 5.5 voter.

[burntboy]

I was just saying that to piper. If I bought a 7.5 slab and found out afterwards that both staples were tarnished through to the centerfold, I'd be one unhappy camper.

 

I would definitely agree except in an instance where you received scans like these or got to see the book in hand. You'd just have to ask the seller and then CGC why this book was only graded 7.5. certainly those two corner creases wouldn't take it down below 9.0, so the red warning lights should be blinking.

 

now if you bought it on Ebay with small scans, I could see where one might feel duped..............

[The_Spirit]

I think you're going by Overstreet standards which have rigid thresholds for certain defects. CGC grades from 10.0 down with no rigid thresholds.

 

I think that this Grading Contest is a great learning experience actually (thumbs u

 

Very true.

 

What I can't seem to wrap my brain around is the disparity between "deductions."

 

For instance, a NM-ish looking book can be banged down to as low as 8.0 for nearly invisible flaws like small thumb dents, spinner rack bends or a tiny stain.

 

While, a book that looks like a VFish copy ONLY goes down to 7.5 with rusty staples with migration to the paper.

 

 

Yup, I was the sole 5.5 voter.

 

You took the words out of my mouth on this comic. I was torn between a 5.5 and 5.0 because I thought the comic looked like an 8.5/8.0 and then deducted another 3.0 for 2 rusty staples. But it was a good learning experience.

I guess I was to harsh because a flaw like rust is the worst in my own personal taste but I guess it might not be all that bad for technical grading.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think you're going by Overstreet standards which have rigid thresholds for certain defects. CGC grades from 10.0 down with no rigid thresholds.

 

I think that this Grading Contest is a great learning experience actually (thumbs u

 

Very true.

 

What I can't seem to wrap my brain around is the disparity between "deductions."

 

For instance, a NM-ish looking book can be banged down to as low as 8.0 for nearly invisible flaws like small thumb dents, spinner rack bends or a tiny stain.

 

While, a book that looks like a VFish copy ONLY goes down to 7.5 with rusty staples with migration to the paper.

 

 

 

IMO.....it's because rusty staples can't be pressed out.

[Aces]

I think you're going by Overstreet standards which have rigid thresholds for certain defects. CGC grades from 10.0 down with no rigid thresholds.

 

I think that this Grading Contest is a great learning experience actually (thumbs u

 

Very true.

 

What I can't seem to wrap my brain around is the disparity between "deductions."

 

For instance, a NM-ish looking book can be banged down to as low as 8.0 for nearly invisible flaws like small thumb dents, spinner rack bends or a tiny stain.

 

While, a book that looks like a VFish copy ONLY goes down to 7.5 with rusty staples with migration to the paper.

 

 

 

IMO.....it's because rusty staples can't be pressed out.

[THE_BEYONDER]

How else do you explain these deductions?

 

A structural 9.0 drops to a 7.5 due to rust migration. A defect that is slowly destroying the comic from the inside out.

 

An otherwise 9.2 book drops to an 8.0 because there is a 4 inch NCB crease on the BC that is invisible...unless the book is tilted just right under the light.

 

Can you make sense of that?

[VintageComics]

I think you're going by Overstreet standards which have rigid thresholds for certain defects. CGC grades from 10.0 down with no rigid thresholds.

 

I think that this Grading Contest is a great learning experience actually (thumbs u

 

Very true.

 

What I can't seem to wrap my brain around is the disparity between "deductions."

 

For instance, a NM-ish looking book can be banged down to as low as 8.0 for nearly invisible flaws like small thumb dents, spinner rack bends or a tiny stain.

 

While, a book that looks like a VFish copy ONLY goes down to 7.5 with rusty staples with migration to the paper.

 

 

 

IMO.....it's because rusty staples can't be pressed out.

 

I think it is a misconception that NCB dents bring a book down heavily. I've had books grade 9.6 with ncb thumb dents when i thought the book might have gotten a 9.4. If the dents break colour there is no reason to try and press them out and these are the books that fetch a 9.2.

 

As far as the rusty staples? This defect is not so much a deduction as a "cut off" as to what defects (or size of defects) are allowed. if you look in the grading guide rust migration is not allowed in VF but slight migration is allowed in F/VF so to me this was a 7 range book at best. Because the staples where the determining factor for the maximum allowable grade all the other creases and dents where irrelevant because the accumulation of defects did not bring the grade down below 7.5.

 

Why did I choose 7.5? Lucky guess. I was torn between 7.5 and 7.0 because I couldn't see how much rust migration there was.

 

That's how I graded the book.

 

R.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

[VintageComics]

 

I should have bet you.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

I should have bet you.

 

 

It's not too late......

[Mr. Zipper]

if you look in the grading guide rust migration is not allowed in VF but slight migration is allowed in F/VF so to me this was a 7 range book at best. Because the staples where the determining factor for the maximum allowable grade all the other creases and dents where irrelevant because the accumulation of defects did not bring the grade down below 7.5.

 

I checked the OGG (2nd edition) as well and I recall seeing that FINE (5.5 - 6.5) was the highest range that allowed any rust migration. Maybe I missed something...

 

[Stannum-migration]

if you look in the grading guide rust migration is not allowed in VF but slight migration is allowed in F/VF so to me this was a 7 range book at best. Because the staples where the determining factor for the maximum allowable grade all the other creases and dents where irrelevant because the accumulation of defects did not bring the grade down below 7.5.

 

I checked the OGG (2nd edition) as well and I recall seeing that FINE (5.5 - 6.5) was the highest range that allowed any rust migration. Maybe I missed something...

 

 

3rd edition says slight rust migration ok in 7.5. That's what I went by since the other defects didn't bring it below that.

 

Maybe they changed the standards between editions?

[joeypost]

if you look in the grading guide rust migration is not allowed in VF but slight migration is allowed in F/VF so to me this was a 7 range book at best. Because the staples where the determining factor for the maximum allowable grade all the other creases and dents where irrelevant because the accumulation of defects did not bring the grade down below 7.5.

 

I checked the OGG (2nd edition) as well and I recall seeing that FINE (5.5 - 6.5) was the highest range that allowed any rust migration. Maybe I missed something...

 

 

3rd edition says slight rust migration ok in 7.5. That's what I went by since the other defects didn't bring it below that.

 

Maybe they changed the standards between editions?

 

Nik mentions rust migration but he never said it was severe.

[JohnT]

if you look in the grading guide rust migration is not allowed in VF but slight migration is allowed in F/VF so to me this was a 7 range book at best. Because the staples where the determining factor for the maximum allowable grade all the other creases and dents where irrelevant because the accumulation of defects did not bring the grade down below 7.5.

 

I checked the OGG (2nd edition) as well and I recall seeing that FINE (5.5 - 6.5) was the highest range that allowed any rust migration. Maybe I missed something...

 

 

You missed that CGC doesn't use Overstreet standards in its grading.

 

 

[VintageComics]

if you look in the grading guide rust migration is not allowed in VF but slight migration is allowed in F/VF so to me this was a 7 range book at best. Because the staples where the determining factor for the maximum allowable grade all the other creases and dents where irrelevant because the accumulation of defects did not bring the grade down below 7.5.

 

I checked the OGG (2nd edition) as well and I recall seeing that FINE (5.5 - 6.5) was the highest range that allowed any rust migration. Maybe I missed something...

 

 

You missed that CGC doesn't use Overstreet standards in its grading.

 

 

They do actually. They just bend the rules a bit.

 

If you look at page 213 they do allow it in 7.0

 

 

R.

 

 

[JohnT]

if you look in the grading guide rust migration is not allowed in VF but slight migration is allowed in F/VF so to me this was a 7 range book at best. Because the staples where the determining factor for the maximum allowable grade all the other creases and dents where irrelevant because the accumulation of defects did not bring the grade down below 7.5.

 

I checked the OGG (2nd edition) as well and I recall seeing that FINE (5.5 - 6.5) was the highest range that allowed any rust migration. Maybe I missed something...

 

 

You missed that CGC doesn't use Overstreet standards in its grading.

 

 

They do actually. They just bend the rules a bit.

 

If you look at page 213 they do allow it in 7.0

 

 

R.

 

 

But this book was graded 8.5.

 

I think they bend the rules so much that you can say they have different standards. From what I can tell, they take a more holistic view of a book, and will allow a defect on anotherwise excellent book. I know Overstreet has that sentence about "certain defects are allowed if other defects are present," but in my experience collectors didn't allow that flexibility in buying books.

 

Because of its market dominance, CGC has been able to make calls on some of these tough grading issues, and they seem to have come to the practical decision that you have to grade the whole book, not just eliminate possible grades based on certain defects.

 

I like this approach, I just think they should publish their standards and let the hobby know how to grade better than we do.

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

The book was graded a 7.5

 

I guess this is where "grading is an art" comes in. I think it would be a travesty to grade a book a 4.5 if it looks like a 9.0, don't you? I guess this is where CGC amalgamates the defects and comes up with a grade. Just a guess.

 

R.