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Archenemies... who needs 'em?

Started by Fan4Fan,

22 posts in this topic

Fan4Fan

Fan4Fan

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When I got back into comics 10 years ago, I thought about reconstituting the collection I'd sold off 20 years earlier.

 

Then I realized what prices had done and thought again.

 

So, I tried (and am continuing to try) to narrow down to my favorite arcs/issues to minimize the financial hit while maximizing my enjoyment.

 

After a few false starts (i.e. discovering that my tastes as a teen were a bit - shall we say - shoddy), I have found that - for the most part - stories with a character's archenemy do not make my favorite story list.

 

If I remember correctly, I think that many of the first stories (for any given character) I read did not feature the archenemy. It was only later that I discovered this whole archenemy concept... and I never really bought into it.

 

 

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tilleycs

tilleycs

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Depends on the hero and archenemy. There have been some great ones (the FF and Dr. Doom come to mind first)...and then there have also been some poopy ones. Sometimes the story just doesn't deliver on the build-up/hype (or even the cover, sometimes).

 

Which ones have you found out that you don't like now that some time has passed?

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Fan4Fan

Fan4Fan

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Depends on the hero and archenemy. There have been some great ones (the FF and Dr. Doom come to mind first)...and then there have also been some poopy ones. Sometimes the story just doesn't deliver on the build-up/hype (or even the cover, sometimes).

 

Which ones have you found out that you don't like now that some time has passed?

 

Well, FF is always the exception... but that still sort of fits my pattern since among the first issues I read were the FF/Doom clash in 142-144 and FF/Frightful Four throwdown in 148. Still, both of those villains menace more than just the FF.... so (in some ways) aren't your standard archenemy.

 

As for others... Red Skull (Captain America), Kang/Immortus (Avengers), Ultron (Avengers), Lex Luthor (Superman), Joker (Batman), Mandarin (Iron Man), Kingpin (Spider-Man), Leader (Hulk)

 

I do like Abomination/Hulk issues, since they tend to explore a bit more of how the same sort of power/affliction can affect two people differently.

 

Maybe I'm just not reading the right stories.... suggestions?

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Fan4Fan

Fan4Fan

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Not having been a big Spider-Man fan, I have to admit that those early Goblin clashes were actually quite good. Maybe it was because I always considered Doc Ock or Vulture to be more of the classic archenemy... hm

 

Another change from the past (again, Fantastic Four and the X-Men are an exception) is that I really no longer buy into the persistent team concept. I will give Bendis credit for bringing me to this realization, since his portrayal of the Avengers really shown a spotlight on just how ludicrous a concept it is.

 

Before anyone says anything...

 

No, I am not feeling extra crusty having just suffered another birthday!

 

hm

 

(shrug)

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Wally's Comics

Wally's Comics

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Not having been a big Spider-Man fan, I have to admit that those early Goblin clashes were actually quite good. Maybe it was because I always considered Doc Ock or Vulture to be more of the classic archenemy... hm

 

Another change from the past (again, Fantastic Four and the X-Men are an exception) is that I really no longer buy into the persistent team concept. I will give Bendis credit for bringing me to this realization, since his portrayal of the Avengers really shown a spotlight on just how ludicrous a concept it is.

 

Before anyone says anything...

 

No, I am not feeling extra crusty having just suffered another birthday!

 

hm

 

(shrug)

 

well, if Doc Ock is the case is hard to beat this story...

 

 

ASM 31-33, I'd dare say it is one of the best storys in the

whole title...

 

hm

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Fan4Fan

Fan4Fan

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Not having been a big Spider-Man fan, I have to admit that those early Goblin clashes were actually quite good. Maybe it was because I always considered Doc Ock or Vulture to be more of the classic archenemy... hm

 

Another change from the past (again, Fantastic Four and the X-Men are an exception) is that I really no longer buy into the persistent team concept. I will give Bendis credit for bringing me to this realization, since his portrayal of the Avengers really shown a spotlight on just how ludicrous a concept it is.

 

Before anyone says anything...

 

No, I am not feeling extra crusty having just suffered another birthday!

 

hm

 

(shrug)

 

well, if Doc Ock is the case is hard to beat this story...

 

 

ASM 31-33, I'd dare say it is one of the best storys in the

whole title...

 

hm

 

I started reading the Ock conflicts much later (around the time of Hammerhead's Ghost) and Octavius just seemed sort of goofy.

 

That said, I've developed more of an appreciation for things Ditko over the past couple of years, so I'll have to go back and re-read that early stuff. (thumbs u

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tilleycs

tilleycs

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Well, FF is always the exception... but that still sort of fits my pattern since among the first issues I read were the FF/Doom clash in 142-144 and FF/Frightful Four throwdown in 148. Still, both of those villains menace more than just the FF.... so (in some ways) aren't your standard archenemy.

 

Definitely agree about Doom - he's too good a villain not to be pimped out to the rest of the MU. :grin: But like Galactus, who's also been everywhere in the MU, he'll always be linked to the FF, and IMO, the best Doom stories are from the FF issues (I also liked the Secret Wars issues that focused on him).

 

As for others... Red Skull (Captain America), Kang/Immortus (Avengers), Ultron (Avengers), Lex Luthor (Superman), Joker (Batman), Mandarin (Iron Man), Kingpin (Spider-Man), Leader (Hulk)

 

Agree on a lot of those. I never understood why the Red Skull never ventured much (if at all?) outside the pages of Captain America if he was such a great villain. I freakin' hate Kang and all 9,000 of his selves. It probably depends on what decade the Luthor and Joker stories are from.

 

I like IM, but I've never been crazy about the Mandarin. Maybe he was a great Silver-Age villain that wasn't able to keep up w/ the times? I never collected Spider-Man, so I always think of Kingpin as more of a DD villain, but that's just me. (For anyone who's read a lot of Spidey and DD, did the develop more of Kingpin's character in the DD comics? I'm inclined to say that they did, but I can't say for sure.)

 

I do like Abomination/Hulk issues, since they tend to explore a bit more of how the same sort of power/affliction can affect two people differently.

 

I haven't read a lot of SA/BA Hulk/Leader issues, so I can't speak to them, but the Hulk/Abomination may have been more interesting (like you say) because of the contrasts. I always liked it when Hulk guest-starred in other titles and duked it out w/ the heroes. There are some GREAT Iron Man, DD, FF, Avengers, TTA/Sub-Mariner, and Cap issues where the Hulk shows up. He was the anti-hero before the term was even invented.

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djpinkpanther67

djpinkpanther67

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well, if Doc Ock is the case is hard to beat this story...

 

 

ASM 31-33, I'd dare say it is one of the best storys in the

whole title...

 

hm

That's actually one of the best story arcs in COMICS. PERIOD. :sumo:

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silverage12c

silverage12c

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If I remember correctly, I think that many of the first stories (for any given character) I read did not feature the archenemy. It was only later that I discovered this whole archenemy concept... and I never really bought into it.

Sometimes that's true, other times not so much --- off the top of my head:

 

Spider-Man #1 pitted Spidey against the Chameleon. (In AF#15, his 1st appearance, there was no real archenemy at all).

 

Fantastic Four #1, against the Mole Man.

 

X-men #1, against Magneto --- definitely their archenemy

 

New X-men, in #94, against Count Nefaria

 

In a lot of cases, the villains with real staying power did not surface until much later in the series.

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Fan4Fan

Fan4Fan

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If I remember correctly, I think that many of the first stories (for any given character) I read did not feature the archenemy. It was only later that I discovered this whole archenemy concept... and I never really bought into it.

Sometimes that's true, other times not so much --- off the top of my head:

 

Spider-Man #1 pitted Spidey against the Chameleon. (In AF#15, his 1st appearance, there was no real archenemy at all).

 

Fantastic Four #1, against the Mole Man.

 

X-men #1, against Magneto --- definitely their archenemy

 

New X-men, in #94, against Count Nefaria

 

In a lot of cases, the villains with real staying power did not surface until much later in the series.

 

Ah... the key part of my comment was "that I read".

 

For example, I came into Cap with the Secret Empire arc. So Red Skull hadn't been around for a while and when he did show up he was saddled with being depicted by Frank Robbins.

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CAP Freak

CAP Freak

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Well, FF is always the exception... but that still sort of fits my pattern since among the first issues I read were the FF/Doom clash in 142-144 and FF/Frightful Four throwdown in 148. Still, both of those villains menace more than just the FF.... so (in some ways) aren't your standard archenemy.

 

Definitely agree about Doom - he's too good a villain not to be pimped out to the rest of the MU. :grin: But like Galactus, who's also been everywhere in the MU, he'll always be linked to the FF, and IMO, the best Doom stories are from the FF issues (I also liked the Secret Wars issues that focused on him).

FF 17 is a great Doom FF single ish. story.

As for others... Red Skull (Captain America), Kang/Immortus (Avengers), Ultron (Avengers), Lex Luthor (Superman), Joker (Batman), Mandarin (Iron Man), Kingpin (Spider-Man), Leader (Hulk)

 

Agree on a lot of those. I never understood why the Red Skull never ventured much (if at all?) outside the pages of Captain America if he was such a great villain. I freakin' hate Kang and all 9,000 of his selves. It probably depends on what decade the Luthor and Joker stories are from.

Amazing Spider-Man Annual #5 is a great Doom Non FF story (note. Annual #5 not Spidey #5)

I do like Abomination/Hulk issues, since they tend to explore a bit more of how the same sort of power/affliction can affect two people differently.

 

I haven't read a lot of SA/BA Hulk/Leader issues, so I can't speak to them, but the Hulk/Abomination may have been more interesting (like you say) because of the contrasts.

There were many contrasts with the leader. to Leader was bombarded by gamma rays and yet he became super-intelligent but lacking in physical strength. While the Hulk also was affected in the complete opposite way.

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