Comics - Recession proof or not?

[Mr. Zipper]

that is unfortunate...everyone I know, that collects comics as I do, is financially sound, so in my little microcosm of collector friends, we are all ok (at least on the surface)...

 

That last part is right on, as you never know what someone's financial situation is like until you open up their books.

 

My wife watches Til Debt Do Us Part all the time, and are some scary scenarios on there - just regular people, hundreds of thousands in the hole, and bleeding red ink daily. One was really bad, it was a pair of doctors making more cash than the majority of the board, and they were something like $6 million in debt. They just spent like drunken sailors and were about to be buried.

 

But on the surface they looked great, high wage earners, big house, luxury cars, private schools for the kids, but millions in debt.

 

I've always made a decent salary... not high, but above average and always wondered how people that I KNEW were making much less than I was were driving nicer cars, going on more vacations, eating in restaurants 3 days a week, wore expensive wristwatches, etc.

 

Then I started watching the Dave Ramsey show. Caller after caller of people drowning in debt. People that make hundreds of thousands a year and don't have a penny in the bank and twice their salary in debt. People that make $30K a year with tens of thousands in revolving debt plus 3 mortgages. Truly insane. We have become the "if you want it, just go out and buy it" instant gratification society.

 

What really pizzes me off is that responsible people who save for their retirement will end up paying the tax tab when these people hit retirement and don't have any savings and only massive credit card bills to show for the previous 40 years.

[evilsly]

There has been a general asset/debt bubble for the past 5 years, which is fairly unprecedented in history.

 

Comics have very much been a part of it

 

how long term, and how deep the fall outs from the sub prime inspired credit crunch will be, no one knows.

 

 

 

[Mr. Zipper]

think we are 4.7, but 4.5 or 4.7, is not high at all, it's actually on the low side. It SOUNDS high, but it's not a real figure. When Unemployment figures are measured, they do not count people who have stopped looking for jobs, but they also do not count all the people who are working off the books, and there are many of them...the number of people who want to be paid by cash, or are doing things like selling on Ebay, steadlily increases each year.

I've worked with unemployment statistics for many years...and I laugh each time I see a figure like that being touted as being hiigh. You are never going to have 100 % employment, it's impossible..and some of people included in those figures are new mothers, students...etc. It's also seasonal, figures are ALWAYS higher in the winter months, construction plays a big part at least in the NE.

 

In my view, the unemployment numbers are almost meaningless. The quality of jobs matters more than the fact that someone is technically going somewhere every day to make a few bucks.

 

I went through a job loss in 2006 and it took me 8 months to find another job with comparable pay... and I was trying very hard. Hitting the bricks and networking every day with local business leaders, COC presidents, etc.

 

When my severance and unemployment ran out after 6 months, I started doing temp work just to have some cash coming in. I was stunned by the number of previously well-paid professionals that were in the same boat I was -- doing TEMP work. There were a LOT. I was doing temp work with guys that used to be VPs, managers... all with good educations and many years of experience. There were not enough good jobs to go around and we were all "overqualified" for jobs making a little less than we had made before.

 

But guess what? According to the government, we were no longer unemployed! So when I see a politician crowing about low unemployment, I just laugh. It's a joke.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

think we are 4.7, but 4.5 or 4.7, is not high at all, it's actually on the low side. It SOUNDS high, but it's not a real figure. When Unemployment figures are measured, they do not count people who have stopped looking for jobs, but they also do not count all the people who are working off the books, and there are many of them...the number of people who want to be paid by cash, or are doing things like selling on Ebay, steadlily increases each year.

I've worked with unemployment statistics for many years...and I laugh each time I see a figure like that being touted as being hiigh. You are never going to have 100 % employment, it's impossible..and some of people included in those figures are new mothers, students...etc. It's also seasonal, figures are ALWAYS higher in the winter months, construction plays a big part at least in the NE.

 

In my view, the unemployment numbers are almost meaningless. The quality of jobs matters more than the fact that someone is technically going somewhere every day to make a few bucks.

 

I went through a job loss in 2006 and it took me 8 months to find another job with comparable pay... and I was trying very hard. Hitting the bricks and networking every day with local business leaders, COC presidents, etc.

 

When my severance and unemployment ran out after 6 months, I started doing temp work just to have some cash coming in. I was stunned by the number of previously well-paid professionals that were in the same boat I was -- doing TEMP work. There were a LOT. I was doing temp work with guys that used to be VPs, managers... all with good educations and many years of experience. There were not enough good jobs to go around and we were all "overqualified" for jobs making a little less than we had made before.

 

But guess what? According to the government, we were no longer unemployed! So when I see a politician crowing about low unemployment, I just laugh. It's a joke.

 

Its no secret that hidden in the monthly job reports are numbers that show high quality white collar and manufacturing jobs have been diminishing steadily the last few years, replaced by lower paying service industry jobs. All this in a supposed era of boom and prosperity.

 

That's what happens when you export jobs overseas.

 

So the next time someone beams over the completely fictious job numbers...just remember that it means "would you like fries with that?" jobs are what we are really adding to our economy.

 

 

 

 

 

[awe4one]

What really pizzes me off is that responsible people who save for their retirement will end up paying the tax tab when these people hit retirement and don't have any savings and only massive credit card bills to show for the previous 40 years.

 

I truly believe all couples should go through extreme monetary distress sometime very early in their marriage...

 

Shortly after I married and my child was born my wife got out of the USAF to pursue a great opportunity. Turned out the job wasn't that great and the firm lost their contract. We were faced with having one income with a newborn baby, a mortgage, a car payment, and 5-figure credit debt my wife incurred before we got together. We were flat broke with maybe $25-50 left at the end of the month after paying the bills and food. Sometimes not even that. This lasted for three years before getting any better. It was hard (and sucked) but we made it through. And we did it without outside help or loans. We are now doing very well with no debt outside a car payment (will have a house soon) and vowed to never have to live from paycheck to paycheck like that again.

 

Going through that gave both of us a greater appreciation for money and saving. I'm not sure we'd be as well off today if the situation hadn't been as dire. Gives you a sense of responsibility that isn't learned or taught...just a life experience that's invaluable in my opinion. It's also the ultimate test for a marriage...if you can get through times like that without taking the easy route and spilitting then you truly know it'll work...

 

Also, thank god for the early 90s speculation craze. If I wasn't able to sell my pre-Unity Valiants at the top as well as all the Moderns that skyrocketed in value (ASM #300, NM #87, etc), we would have lost the house... (thumbs u

 

Jim

[Mr. Zipper]

Shortly after I married and my child was born my wife got out of the USAF to pursue a great opportunity. Turned out the job wasn't that great and the firm lost their contract. We were faced with having one income with a newborn baby, a mortgage, a car payment, and 5-figure credit debt my wife incurred before we got together. We were flat broke with maybe $25-50 left at the end of the month after paying the bills and food. Sometimes not even that. This lasted for three years before getting any better. It was hard (and sucked) but we made it through. And we did it without outside help or loans. We are now doing very well with no debt outside a car payment (will have a house soon) and vowed to never have to live from paycheck to paycheck like that again....

 

Going through that gave both of us a greater appreciation for money and saving. I'm not sure we'd be as well off today if the situation hadn't been as dire. Gives you a sense of responsibility that isn't learned or taught...just a life experience that's invaluable in my opinion. It's also the ultimate test for a marriage...if you

 

We have very similar stories.

[october]

What market is recession proof?

 

Booze.

[The Black Hand ®]

Well, we live in such a culture of envy, where everybody has to have what everyone else has , or what used to take our parents twenty years to aquire. It's this type of mentality that fosters an "I got mine, you get yours sucker" mentality. It's a culture where poor talk radio listeners rush out to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy, even though it will never benefit them .It's a culture where our leaders tell us that it's our patriotic duty to go out and buy,buy,buy! There comes a point, where I can no longer believe what I see. The disparity in incomes and education in this country, the total lack of sympathy, even outright hatred, for those who have fallen through the cracks in our society. Twenty years ago, many high school graduates made decent money in manufacturing but they now need three service industry jobs to replace that one. And all the young smarty pants, who are fortunate enough to be quick witted, canny and motivated can say is..."Too bad for them, I got mine...Let the dumb bastards eat cake " I can't help but feel that we have created , deliberately, an underclass of powerless peons. People who used to feel good about the work they did, but not any longer. This country is going to collapse under the weight of greed, envy and stupidity. There will be no revolution because everyone is too fat to move after being fed a steady diet of fast food and superfluous values...after being divided by ridiculous wedge issues and tainted religious values...after being sold down the river by a malevolent, uncaring upper class and their greedy toadies who lap up the crumbs and poke fun at the stupid hicks who aren't able to gain any traction, some because they just don't have what it takes, some because they just aren't devious enough to play the game and others because of laziness and or mental illness. Whatever the reason, whatever the cause, whatever the outcome, you can bet there will be people who try to figure out a way to capitalize off of the coming collapse of the middle class and further sinking of the poor....and laugh about it all the way to the bank

[moonlite]

What market is recession proof?

 

Booze.

 

Funny, this was my reply to the guy last nite about his plant closing. Another fella there with us works at the Wild Turkey distillery and even they had some shakeups a while back. My thoughts have been that booze and the medical industry will always be good ones.

 

 

[Mr. Zipper]

Well, we live in such a culture of envy, where everybody has to have what everyone else has , or what used to take our parents twenty years to aquire.

 

This reminds me of all the reports on the subprime mortgage mess. A recurring theme with almost all of the "victims" is they "just wanted a piece of the American Dream."

 

So, young couples making average or less salaries took out ARMs on $500,000 new builds with 5 bedrooms, 3 car garages, 4 baths with travertine tile, giant kitchens with granite countertops and a heated olympic size pool.

 

What ever happened to buying a modest, pre-owned "starter home"?

 

To quote BH, "we live in such a culture of envy, where everybody has to have what everyone else has, or what used to take our parents twenty years to aquire."

[ArAich]

and I laugh each time I see a figure like that being touted as being high.

 

 

I was being facetious...I know it's low...

[Old Fashion PB and J]

The unemployment numbers to me are virtually meaningless. Most contractors, plumbers, builders, electricians, lawn maintenence, pavers, masons, house cleaners, window washers, carpet installers, waiters, and so on and so forth work off the books. So how would there figures even show up, they wouldnt. And the worst part is not being able to collect unemployment. And if you are on the books and are only working at one of the above jobs 2 days a week because work is slow, you wont be able to collect anyways.

 

Second how much is minimum wage ? WHO could actually survive OR start a family on those wages ? Sure you make a steady 10 bucks an hour well say. BUT gas prices rise, rent rises, electric, natural gas, oil rise. Does your salary ? No. So even if people are still making the same money, but everything becomes more expensive how do you get by ? You dont, you drown, starve, fall into debt. So in the end your 350.00 a week doesnt cut it.

 

The economy is not doing well, what is going to change that. I have no idea.

[delekkerste]

There comes a point, where I can no longer believe what I see. The disparity in incomes and education in this country, the total lack of sympathy, even outright hatred, for those who have fallen through the cracks in our society.

 

Not that I don't agree with what you're saying, to an extent, but what about the flip side? What about the envy and hatred towards business interests, the government and the well-to-do? Seems like everybody wants to blame anybody but themselves. "Gasoline prices are high, so it must be the greedy oil companies at work (never mind that energy is a competitive, global free market), so, hey, let's tax them and confiscate their "obscene" profits. Heaven forbid that anybody in this country should get rich, so let's increase taxes so that the top marginal tax rates (federal+state+local) becomes higher than in socialist France. Those hedge fund and private equity guys are making too much money, so let's change the tax system just to target them. I can't get a good job, so let's blame the corporations, the government and the Chinese and Indians - never mind that I was rotting my brain with videogames and comic books while those overseas workers were studying and working hard to compete in the global economy. And, of course, it's all Wall Street's fault that I ended up in this house I can't actually afford and am going to lose - they tricked us!!"

 

There's a huge sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility out there, in addition to the legitimate issues/problems you mentioned, and it's going to take a lot more than socialist/class warfare rhetoric and policies to actually bring about constructive change.

[The Black Hand ®]

There comes a point, where I can no longer believe what I see. The disparity in incomes and education in this country, the total lack of sympathy, even outright hatred, for those who have fallen through the cracks in our society.

 

Not that I don't agree with what you're saying, to an extent, but what about the flip side? What about the envy and hatred towards business interests, the government and the well-to-do? Seems like everybody wants to blame anybody but themselves. "Gasoline prices are high, so it must be the greedy oil companies at work (never mind that energy is a competitive, global free market), so, hey, let's tax them and confiscate their "obscene" profits. Heaven forbid that anybody in this country should get rich, so let's increase taxes so that the top marginal tax rates (federal+state+local) becomes higher than in socialist France. Those hedge fund and private equity guys are making too much money, so let's change the tax system just to target them. I can't get a good job, so let's blame the corporations, the government and the Chinese and Indians - never mind that I was rotting my brain with videogames and comic books while those overseas workers were studying and working hard to compete in the global economy. And, of course, it's all Wall Street's fault that I ended up in this house I can't actually afford and am going to lose - they tricked us!!"

 

There's a huge sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility out there, in addition to the legitimate issues/problems you mentioned, and it's going to take a lot more than socialist/class warfare rhetoric and policies to actually bring about constructive change.

 

The flip side is that the wealthy and the big corporations have much more control over their destiny and can laugh off angry rhetoric as easily as they can buy off politicians. People who spend beyond their means and end up in finacial trouble are responsible for their own downfall and don't get more than normal sympathy from me. And angry rhetoric is the first step in taking control of our lives and changing this country and taking it back from an elite few. My attitude has nothing to do with socialism...just fairness. Constructive change for me would be rebuilding our manufacturing capacity and putting the average citizen above the special corporate interest who are robbing us blind.

[kidcolt]

For the first time in my comic collecting life I have started to buy more then I have time to read. I should put a recession on myself haha.

[kimik]

Not that I don't agree with what you're saying, to an extent, but what about the flip side? What about the envy and hatred towards business interests, the government and the well-to-do? Seems like everybody wants to blame anybody but themselves. "Gasoline prices are high, so it must be the greedy oil companies at work (never mind that energy is a competitive, global free market), so, hey, let's tax them and confiscate their "obscene" profits. Heaven forbid that anybody in this country should get rich, so let's increase taxes so that the top marginal tax rates (federal+state+local) becomes higher than in socialist France. Those hedge fund and private equity guys are making too much money, so let's change the tax system just to target them. I can't get a good job, so let's blame the corporations, the government and the Chinese and Indians - never mind that I was rotting my brain with videogames and comic books while those overseas workers were studying and working hard to compete in the global economy. And, of course, it's all Wall Street's fault that I ended up in this house I can't actually afford and am going to lose - they tricked us!!"

 

There's a huge sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility out there, in addition to the legitimate issues/problems you mentioned, and it's going to take a lot more than socialist/class warfare rhetoric and policies to actually bring about constructive change.

 

While I agree with a lot of what you said regarding competitiveness and personal responsibility, I would argue that Wall Street should take a lot of the blame for the sub-prime and associated derivatives mess that is bringing the US economy to its knees. Who created these "financial innovations" and packaged them up to sell globally? Who loosened up lending standards and would give mortgages to anyone with a heartbeat? And now, who is crying woe is me and looking for the government to bail them out by printing money, lowering rates, and hyping useless economic stimulus packages (all of which will have to be dealt with sooner or later as well)?

 

 

[MedicAR]

The comics market is most certainly not recession proof. I'm feeling the pinch and have been since last summer. Now, feeling it and acting on it are different, but I have started acting on it recently. I kept the attitude that it was short term and I didn't need to worry. Now, I think differently.

 

The U.S. as a nation is very short-sighted at all levels. From the man on the street to the halls of power, we look at things in the short term and the most common question is "What's in it for me, right now?" It's evident in our laws on protecting the environment, in our lop-sided trade policies, in our courts as demonstrated by a litigation driven society, and in corporate greed that outsources everything in order to pay a CEO an additional $20 million. The U.S. cannot clothe itself anymore, the textile factories are all overseas. Why is there a scare about the food supply in a nation that could easily feed the world? Why import food at all? Simple, it makes someone somewhere a little extra money and what happens to the nation isn't given a moment of thought. I believe we need a booster shot of true patriotism. Not the kind of patriotism that puts a Chinese-made flag on its car and leaves it there until it's just a few threads attached to a tiny plastic pole. We need the kind of patriotism that asks the question is this good for America? Will this damage us as a nation in some way down the line? Then answer that question honestly and make a decision based on that. Ask if what you're doing will help fellow Americans or make their lives better. If the answer is "no," then change course. It may cost more, but what's more important? Saving a buck? Or keeping the country that gave you the opporunity to make that buck strong for another generation?

 

*sorry, I think I was channelling Lou Dobbs for a minute or two....*

 

Back on topic, I've already trimmed my buying, both online and in my LCS. I've already started trying to move some books that hold little or no personal value to me. I'm seeing less than I hoped for from them and I consider my expectations to be very reasonable. This leads me to believe that the average collector is feeling the pinch too. I'm not moving high end, high grade keys, so I'm not attracting the super-collectors with deep pockets, but rather collectors like myself.....of average means.

 

Last fall, economists stated that the U.S. economy would not be the world leader in 2008, but that the Chinese and Russian economies would provide for contiuned world-wide growth. I saw it on Lou Dobbs and since I'm not an economist by any stretch, I don't fully understand it. This could be a huge and long-term adjustment, and "extras" like comics will be the first to fall from my spending.

[delekkerste]

No question that Wall Street was blinded by its own greed and is heavily responsible for the mess we're seeing. However, they are not the only ones with cap in hand asking for a bailout - many people got in over their heads, buying houses they could never hope to actually pay for, because of their own greed and stupidity. They felt "entitled" to their piece of the American Dream and now they, too, are asking for a government bailout and consulting predatory lawyers to try again to get something for nothing. The banks shouldn't have given them loans, but there's no question that all but a few knew what they were getting into and didn't care, and are now trying to lay blame on anyone but themselves.

[divad]

Well, we live in such a culture of envy, where everybody has to have what everyone else has , or what used to take our parents twenty years to aquire. It's this type of mentality that fosters an "I got mine, you get yours sucker" mentality. It's a culture where poor talk radio listeners rush out to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy, even though it will never benefit them .It's a culture where our leaders tell us that it's our patriotic duty to go out and buy,buy,buy! There comes a point, where I can no longer believe what I see. The disparity in incomes and education in this country, the total lack of sympathy, even outright hatred, for those who have fallen through the cracks in our society. Twenty years ago, many high school graduates made decent money in manufacturing but they now need three service industry jobs to replace that one. And all the young smarty pants, who are fortunate enough to be quick witted, canny and motivated can say is..."Too bad for them, I got mine...Let the dumb bastards eat cake " I can't help but feel that we have created , deliberately, an underclass of powerless peons. People who used to feel good about the work they did, but not any longer. This country is going to collapse under the weight of greed, envy and stupidity. There will be no revolution because everyone is too fat to move after being fed a steady diet of fast food and superfluous values...after being divided by ridiculous wedge issues and tainted religious values...after being sold down the river by a malevolent, uncaring upper class and their greedy toadies who lap up the crumbs and poke fun at the stupid hicks who aren't able to gain any traction, some because they just don't have what it takes, some because they just aren't devious enough to play the game and others because of laziness and or mental illness. Whatever the reason, whatever the cause, whatever the outcome, you can bet there will be people who try to figure out a way to capitalize off of the coming collapse of the middle class and further sinking of the poor....and laugh about it all the way to the bank

 

[divad]

There comes a point, where I can no longer believe what I see. The disparity in incomes and education in this country, the total lack of sympathy, even outright hatred, for those who have fallen through the cracks in our society.

 

Not that I don't agree with what you're saying, to an extent, but what about the flip side? What about the envy and hatred towards business interests, the government and the well-to-do? Seems like everybody wants to blame anybody but themselves. "Gasoline prices are high, so it must be the greedy oil companies at work (never mind that energy is a competitive, global free market), so, hey, let's tax them and confiscate their "obscene" profits. Heaven forbid that anybody in this country should get rich, so let's increase taxes so that the top marginal tax rates (federal+state+local) becomes higher than in socialist France. Those hedge fund and private equity guys are making too much money, so let's change the tax system just to target them. I can't get a good job, so let's blame the corporations, the government and the Chinese and Indians - never mind that I was rotting my brain with videogames and comic books while those overseas workers were studying and working hard to compete in the global economy. And, of course, it's all Wall Street's fault that I ended up in this house I can't actually afford and am going to lose - they tricked us!!"

 

There's a huge sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility out there, in addition to the legitimate issues/problems you mentioned, and it's going to take a lot more than socialist/class warfare rhetoric and policies to actually bring about constructive change.

 

The flip side is that the wealthy and the big corporations have much more control over their destiny and can laugh off angry rhetoric as easily as they can buy off politicians. People who spend beyond their means and end up in finacial trouble are responsible for their own downfall and don't get more than normal sympathy from me. And angry rhetoric is the first step in taking control of our lives and changing this country and taking it back from an elite few. My attitude has nothing to do with socialism...just fairness. Constructive change for me would be rebuilding our manufacturing capacity and putting the average citizen above the special corporate interest who are robbing us blind.

 

(worship)