30 cent variants-Tales of the hunt

[Guest]

I had originally replied to this in another topic, but I feel as though this thread could yield so many good stories, I thought it deserved a "home" of its own. Pardon the spelling. I'd like to hear about what some other folks have gone through as part of the "thrill of the hunt" is certainly what the variants are all about. Clearly, money is not the final arbiter of success in this niche.

 

While I don't currently have the time to record and individually grade books right now, a quick review of what I've come across has led me to have absolutely no doubt that the average grade of my 30 cent variants is probably 9.0-9.2. Much of this is due to dumb luck. Many of my westerns and horrors came from a store that had clearly unread copies for $1 each. Plus, (I have to agree with you on Todd's grading) before too many others were collecting variants, I was lucky enough to be able to complete a deal with Todd for over 80 variants, all of which were grossly under graded and shockingly beautiful. Once I factor out my lesser grade dupes, I'd have to say the average grade is in the low end of NM.

 

 

Hi Paul-

 

I don't disagree that some high-grade copies do exist. My point is: Some copies of these books in non-variant have been submitted to CGC by collectors and top grades range up to 9.8-9.9 for many. The fact that many on this forum specialize in the variants does not mean that others with variants would not submit them if the grades were there. When I talk about low availability, I mean grades of 9.6 for what you have coined as category 1, 2 and 3 variants. I would go as low as 9.2 to 9.4 for category 4 and 5 books. Notwithstanding the fine collections held by this esteemed crowd, if they were around somebody would probably have submitted a few more if the grades were there.

 

The fact that a collectors like us cannot even find a single copy of issues we need to complete the run, is testimony, in itself, that high-grade copies are certainly scarce.

 

Your line regarding the purchase of high quality stuff for a buck a copy really hit home with me. I thought I would provide the "Paul Harvey" equivalent of "the rest of the story".

 

I have been asked on occasion how I got certain books and how much I paid. While I currently live in Denver, I lived most of my life in San Jose. I began collecting the 30-cent variants in May of 2002. It was an accidental outcrop of my Spider-Man collection. I went to a local shop and saw these "weird" 30-cent issues. I did a little research and came back in later that week and cleaned the store out of about 60 30 centers at about guide minus 20%.

 

Over the next 6 months I was fortunate enough to run into at least 4 finds of at least 50 issues each, near guide. Almost no number 4's or 5's were in these batches however.

 

After paying a few high dollar deals for a limited number of Western and horrors, I really "lucked out". Those here may remember "Rusty Starwars" AKA Rusty Butterfield in Texas. In March of this year he posted a large number of auctions with no mention of variants. In fact the scans showed lots of variants. In the auction he mentioned that they were subject to outside sale. He also had three "grab-bags" of about 70 comics each in which he would not identify the issues. The stack was shown and the top comic was upside down. I was able to see one top edge sticking out with "WARE" showing which I immediately identified as "BEWARE", a horror issue. I then proceeded a back and forth with Rusty and after all the haggling I agreed to pay about $1500 for a total of 500 issues, which also included a ton of old Strange Tales issues as well as a slew of high grade Marvel magazines.

 

The auctions with "known" variants were typical: Superheroes, which he probably recognized as being more saleable. Other than the one clue in the grab bag stack, there was no indication of anything spectacular.

 

You would have had to have been there the day I received them to understand how awestruck I was. The saddest part of the whole deal is that these 1500 book were sent in two large boxes with "bare" comics stacked in any manner that would get it filled. I estimate that a large number of comics lost a full grade just due to the shipping.

 

In any case, I started pulling out comics and my jaw fell wide open. The "grab-bag issues" (which were only a dollar per copy) were almost a complete run of every category 4 and 5 30 cent variant that was published of the Western and Horror genre, as well as many of the category 3 stuff, like Master of Kung Fu, Tomb of Dracula Iron Fist etc... In other words anything that was not a high profile character ended up in that grab bag. On average the issues graded out at about 8.0 to 8.5 with a few 9.0 and better. The only western and horrors missing were WWT 16, all the Two Gun Kids, Kid Colt 205 and 207 (and both Sgt Fury's).

 

Now a lot of people would call this luck and in many ways it was. Never the less a few observations need to be made:

 

1) The seller had about the worst feedback I have ever seen. In fact he has been kicked off eBay at least twice since this episode.

 

2) He was selling "cracked open copies" of CGC issues that were apparently nowhere near the supposed grades. The feedback he was getting on these was as wicked as I have ever seen.

 

3) Had I not been able to use a credit card through Pay Pal, I would have probably never done the deal.

 

But that is not the entire story. I told Rusty to call me if he ever got anything from the same source. He finally e-mailed me about 2 months ago and said he had about 500 new comics from the same guy. He faxed me a list and lo and behold, it had all the issues that were missing from the last batch, but there were no pictures and I didn't want to get him thinking too much about it. I just assumed I would be getting about the same.

 

Also, this time he could not take Paypal as he had had his access revoked. I finally, reluctantly, agreed to send him a money order for half, with the other half deliverable on good receipt.

 

I got the books about a week later. Once again, you had to be there when I opened the box, as my expectations were pretty high. I almost cried. I proceeded to go through what is about one of the worst shipments of comics I have ever seen. To begin with, not a single variant was in that entire box. All standard 25 centers. Second the condition on average was about VG. In fact many were coverless. Lastly he shorted me on most of the books that would have been worth anything any way like X-Men 98, 99 and 100. Needless to say, I never sent him the balance, but I was out $500.

 

So what is the point of all this?

 

On surface you can say I paid a buck a piece for my "best" variants. The truth is it cost me about $2000 to get about 40 really good books. By my math that is about $50 bucks apiece. The good news is that I probably have comics I could sell at one point for at least $1000 maybe a lot more. But I have to get a new scanner and spent countless hours preparing, if I am to do it right.

 

So yeah, I paid a buck apiece for some great comics, but now you know...the rest of the story.

 

And if anybody can help, I am still looking for the final three to my collection:

 

Kid Colt 205 and 207

Two Gun Kid 131

 

I have well over 200 dupes if anybody has need of 1,2 ,3 and some 4 and 5 stuff. I just got a call on a new batch of about 50. We'll see what here is in that batch, though.

 

[Guest]

 

I told Rusty to call me if he ever got anything from the same source. He finally e-mailed me about 2 months ago and said he had about 500 new comics from the same guy. He faxed me a list and lo and behold, it had all the issues that were missing from the last batch, but there were no pictures and I didn't want to get him thinking too much about it. I just assumed I would be getting about the same.

 

 

I want to make it clear that I never held Rusty responsible one way or the other for the problem I had with the second deal. He never knew what I was after. Except for the missing comics, he delivered what he thought I wanted. Notwithstanding severe negative feedback from others, I had excellent luck in the actual payment and delivery (save for not knowing how to properly ship comics) of everything he promised. In fact in the original transaction his auctions advertised these issues as "good". In fact, as mentioned, most were in relatively high grade.

[realitytrip]

I want to make it clear that I never held Rusty responsible one way or the other for the problem I had with the second deal. He never knew what I was after. Except for the missing comics, he delivered what he thought I wanted. Notwithstanding severe negative feedback from others, I had excellent luck in the actual payment and delivery (save for not knowing how to properly ship comics) of everything he promised. In fact in the original transaction his auctions advertised these issues as "good". In fact, as mentioned, most were in relatively high grade.

 

Interesting, thanks for sharing Glenn. But I have to ask, if you didn't blame the guy why did you stiff him for $500 bucks? I mean maybe you could have made a deal with him to subtract some money for the missing books, but half of the money when he gave you almost all of what you asked for seems a bit excessive to me.

 

And wouid you have given him the other $500 if the books you received had been variants? Which of course he didn't know about in the first place? I am confused.

[Guest]

I want to make it clear that I never held Rusty responsible one way or the other for the problem I had with the second deal. He never knew what I was after. Except for the missing comics, he delivered what he thought I wanted. Notwithstanding severe negative feedback from others, I had excellent luck in the actual payment and delivery (save for not knowing how to properly ship comics) of everything he promised. In fact in the original transaction his auctions advertised these issues as "good". In fact, as mentioned, most were in relatively high grade.

 

Interesting, thanks for sharing Glenn. But I have to ask, if you didn't blame the guy why did you stiff him for $500 bucks? I mean maybe you could have made a deal with him to subtract some money for the missing books, but half of the money when he gave you almost all of what you asked for seems a bit excessive to me.

 

And wouid you have given him the other $500 if the books you received had been variants? Which of course he didn't know about in the first place? I am confused.

 

The answer is as follows:

 

1) I didn't stiff him for $500, I actually agreed to pay $800 and sent him $500 since I was not completely sure he would flake. I couldn't possibly include all the small details in the original write up. To clarify, the deal was that I would pay half ( I paid more actually) and take a look at the comics when they got here. If they were in the same type of condition as the original batch, I would send the balance. So when I say key issues were missing that is only part of the story. Close to 40 were missing covers and the others were generally very low grade.

 

2) In the process of the transaction he was very, very difficult to get ahold of, providing me only a cell phone.

 

3) After I received the comics I immediatky e-mailed and phoned him, leaving messages since he never answered, and told him that with several key issues missing ( most non-variants types ). You have to understand that as I calculated what I was willing to pay, I made allowances for the possibility the issues might not work out. I guess I should clarify. When I say some key books were missing, per his list. Every key book was missing. Therefore when 10-20 key issues turn up missing that makes the deal way lopsided, even with allowances built in. He kind of ripped me off in that sense, but I knew what I was dealiong with. That is why I don't blame him per se. It is part of the calculated risk taking that needs to be taken on occassion.

 

I told him we needed to renegotiate or I would have to think about returning all of the issues. The combination of very low grades, missing issues and total lack of response on his part , he never returned my e-mail or phone calls made it easy for me to leave the deal where it stood. In my opinion, case closed.

 

4) Had Rusty sent comics that were all as represented, and I don't mean they had to be beauties, even without a single variant, there is no question I would have sent him the rest of the money. I have never stiffed a seller.

 

I have always used PayPal as a back up in the event I do get ripped off. Rusty took PayPal originally and that helped reduce my worry a bit. The only reason I sent Rusty a money order the second time around was because he did deliver, quite well, in the first go round. I would not normally send a money order to a stranger in any condition. While Rusty was not a stranger, his track record away from me was enough that I knew it was a risk.

 

The bottom line is that this story has many of the elements present ion the story about the frog that carries the scorpion across the river. So long as you understand the nature of those across the table from you, very little is likely to surprise you.I am not saying that Rusty's behavior was the type I would hope for, but if you are asking me if I was surprised...

 

[realitytrip]

ok, that makes sense, thanks for the longer explantion. I certainly don't know if I would have had the cajones to make either deal in the first place, that is a lot of money to risk on a wing and a prayer, but it worked out for you so congrats.