Sigh... paypal shenanigans

[Bronty]

Apologies if this has already been covered somewhere. Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

So... I was sent some counterfeit merchandise for $550 by a seller (not comics but that's not the point). Paid via paypal (credit card). Had it sent to my post office box in washington state (unconfirmed address). However, it was sent in such a manner that I had to sign for receipt.

 

Now, what are my choices? The way I see it, I can:

 

A) Talk to the seller about it. Not sure if I want to do this because I have since found out he's pulled this before and I don't want limit my options if I acknowledge receipt.

 

B) Claim non-receipt and start a paypal objection. Might work because he sent it to an unconfirmed address; then again I had to sign for it. Would I get my money back?

 

C) Go straight to my credit card company and get them to do a chargeback. Will this get my paypal account pulled? I'm a power seller now, which might help.

 

Any advice appreciated... thanks guys.

 

Dan

[COI]

B. If he's a serial scammer, he deserves it and you shouldn't hesitate. Fight fire with fire, an eye for an eye, and all that.

[aardvark88]

B) and send him some rotting fish via surface mail after u get your PayPal $$ back.

[Ares]

let me take care him.. ill merderize the bum

[Bronty]

So, do you think paypal will give me my money back if he has proof from the post office that I signed for the package (keeping mind that it's an unconfirmed address)?

 

Thanks for your input guys!

[COI]

If he has proof that you signed, I wouldn't think Paypal would give you a refund, since you couldn't claim that you never recieved it.

 

You should talk to Bruce.......he's got some experience in dealing with Paypal in these type of matters.

[Bronty]

Well.... it could be someone claiming to be me, you know? That's why you're only supposed to send to a confirmed address. Hmm... I'll pm bruce.

 

Thanks AK.

[Mephisto]

Well.... it could be someone claiming to be me, you know? That's why you're only supposed to send to a confirmed address. Hmm... I'll pm bruce.

 

Thanks AK.

 

Yes but you want to be carefull you don't get yourself into any trouble. If you try and claim you never got it and said someone else signed and it was revealed you did you might get in trouble for something like mail fraud or god knows what and post offices tend to have video cameras so they may have you on tape signing for it.

[Bronty]

That is an EXCELLENT point. Thank you very much for bringing that up.

[LordRahl]

I don't think Paypal will refund you the money because he has proof that you signed for it, unconfirmed address or not. I just had something similar happen to me except I used my confirmed address. Go straight to your credit card company and file a charge back, make sure that your credit card company knows you received something but it was counterfeit. I made the mistake of telling my CC company that I didn't receive anything after I had filed a Paypal complaint for "merchandise not as described" and being denied because Paypal doesn't cover "merchandise not as described". What a crock, basically someone could send you an empty package but as long as it has delivery confirmation and they can prove to Paypal that they sent SOMETHING out you the buyer are SOL. Be prepared to have Paypal freeze your account until you reimburse them, they did it to me and it took 3 weeks to clear that up. In the end I was still out the money because even though my CC charged it back I had to pay Paypal. However this may be different if you file the charge back as counterfeit merchandise with your CC as opposed to non-receipt. You could also close your Paypal account first and then charge it back through your CC, then Paypal has no recourse to obtain their money back from you. Either way make sure you have no money in the Paypal account and it's not linked to any of your auctions before you charge back through your CC.

[BronzeBruce13]

I recently confirmed with Paypal that "most often" they require a "tracking number" NOT just a signature to support the seller on larger valued items. I previously thought (was told by them) that signature confirmation or return receipt was enough. They said it was a "judgement call", but on the more expensive items a tracking # would be needed.

 

I would not lie and claim you never received the box.. as that can, and will likely be proven false as the seller should be able to obtain a copy of the sig and then your credibility is for (sounds like return receipt, green card?) . If there was no sig... that would be a consideration since you were scammed.

 

He sent to an unconfirmed addy that already excludes him from seller protection... so you have the advantage on 2 counts already. You also paid via CC and have a 3rd back up.

 

Make sure your PP balance/account is empty. Transfer to your bank if not and LY bank know that you don't authorize ANY debits to that bank account, especially from PP from that day forward. Remove any funds in there temporarily anyway... so PP will know the cupboard is bare. (BTW...Do a search on the other PP threads I posted in and there is more info on bank protection.)

 

Then Contact Paypal via phone tomorrow 1-888-221-1161 or 1-800-221-1161 and describe that the contents of the package were fraudelent and as a consideration to them (PP) you are contacting them first to resolve the issue and get your $ back BEFORE calling your CC co. and issuing a chargeback... but you will if they come up empty. They might threaten to suspend your account if you do, but don't blink. Politely let them know it will be them that will be out the cash if they don't go get the $.

 

I would not mention that you don't have a confirmed addy.. they'll see that.

 

Contact your CC co. next and let them know what has happened and that you are letting PP "try" and get your cash back first but to give you all the needed info to process the chareback just in case. Most likely they will tell you to send the merchandise back with a tracking number and/or signature.

 

I don't think you can lose this one

 

Does anyone see a hole in this? I thought i knew most everything about Paypal, but I've picked up new info recently that I didn't know prior. i want to make sure no one see's anything I'm not considering?

 

 

 

The debiting of your bank... I found a solution for, but laws, policies may vary by bank/state? Everyone should check in with their bank.

 

The tracking # instead of sig. was a surprise to me. Policy changed or i got bad info.?

 

 

Bug mentioned one can get access to their PP balance faster than the 3-4 days to withdraw to a bank account... via a bank card instantly?

 

 

 

Apologies if this has already been covered somewhere. Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

So... I was sent some counterfeit merchandise for $550 by a seller (not comics but that's not the point). Paid via paypal (credit card). Had it sent to my post office box in washington state (unconfirmed address). However, it was sent in such a manner that I had to sign for receipt.

 

Now, what are my choices? The way I see it, I can:

 

A) Talk to the seller about it. Not sure if I want to do this because I have since found out he's pulled this before and I don't want limit my options if I acknowledge receipt.

 

B) Claim non-receipt and start a paypal objection. Might work because he sent it to an unconfirmed address; then again I had to sign for it. Would I get my money back?

 

C) Go straight to my credit card company and get them to do a chargeback. Will this get my paypal account pulled? I'm a power seller now, which might help.

 

Any advice appreciated... thanks guys.

 

Dan

[BronzeBruce13]

Hmmm.. how much was the item in question? I was told they need a tracking number although they did not specify the amount where a sig. is not enough.

 

I think they would support bronty because of the unconfirmed addy too.

 

Bronty... I agree you should remove funds as mentioned and LR is right they could freeze your account and not just threaten to. Worst case sceanario... it "could" come down to losing the $550 or losing your PP account... basically leaving it with a debit they can't collect. So get the $ out.

 

Considering the WCS, I think its best to give PP a shot to get the cash first as you still can contact your CC co. and get started with a chargeback as a back up since you have not told 2 different stories. I'm not sure if the "merchandise not as described" rule is concrete, but that is a concern. What if you say "its not the right item"? and that you are planning on sending it back to the seller with a tracking # because he screwed up... but you want your $$.

 

make sense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think Paypal will refund you the money because he has proof that you signed for it, unconfirmed address or not. I just had something similar happen to me except I used my confirmed address. Go straight to your credit card company and file a charge back, make sure that your credit card company knows you received something but it was counterfeit. I made the mistake of telling my CC company that I didn't receive anything after I had filed a Paypal complaint for "merchandise not as described" and being denied because Paypal doesn't cover "merchandise not as described". What a crock, basically someone could send you an empty package but as long as it has delivery confirmation and they can prove to Paypal that they sent SOMETHING out you the buyer are SOL. Be prepared to have Paypal freeze your account until you reimburse them, they did it to me and it took 3 weeks to clear that up. In the end I was still out the money because even though my CC charged it back I had to pay Paypal. However this may be different if you file the charge back as counterfeit merchandise with your CC as opposed to non-receipt. You could also close your Paypal account first and then charge it back through your CC, then Paypal has no recourse to obtain their money back from you. Either way make sure you have no money in the Paypal account and it's not linked to any of your auctions before you charge back through your CC.

[Mephisto]

Yuck such a mess this stuff can become. I stopped using PP awhile back. I no longer felt comfortable having my CC or Bank account so easily available if the account was ever hijacked. I had seen enough bad stories of bank acocunts sucked dry that I decided since I don't ebay as much as I had it wasn't worth having it.

[Rickdogg]

I'm in a similar situation right now with no merchandise at all. The seller never contacted me until I finally filed a formal complaint with paypal. The very next day the loser emails me stating that he could have swore that he had that particular book CGC'd and that it was an honest mistake. What a jack [!@#%^&^] Anyways, he already screwed himself by admitting he didn't send me the comic so either way paypal is going to give me back my $$$ .

 

Don't worry Dan...you're going to win this one. However, don't lie about any of the facts and you should be fine.

 

 

[Shield]

I don't think Paypal will refund you the money because he has proof that you signed for it, unconfirmed address or not. I just had something similar happen to me except I used my confirmed address. Go straight to your credit card company and file a charge back, make sure that your credit card company knows you received something but it was counterfeit. I made the mistake of telling my CC company that I didn't receive anything after I had filed a Paypal complaint for "merchandise not as described" and being denied because Paypal doesn't cover "merchandise not as described". What a crock, basically someone could send you an empty package but as long as it has delivery confirmation and they can prove to Paypal that they sent SOMETHING out you the buyer are SOL. Be prepared to have Paypal freeze your account until you reimburse them, they did it to me and it took 3 weeks to clear that up. In the end I was still out the money because even though my CC charged it back I had to pay Paypal. However this may be different if you file the charge back as counterfeit merchandise with your CC as opposed to non-receipt. You could also close your Paypal account first and then charge it back through your CC, then Paypal has no recourse to obtain their money back from you. Either way make sure you have no money in the Paypal account and it's not linked to any of your auctions before you charge back through your CC.

 

I've had similiar "not as described" problems; please follow every word of this advice to the letter because it's 100% dead on correct!

[BronzeBruce13]

Does "not as described" mean "something similar, but not quite"... or does it apply to "not even close" or the "wrong item" too? Like buying a gumball machine and getting a old football hemet. Did you get a clearly defined explanation from Paypal when this happened to you? It would be very helpful to know exactly how they view this since you and LR had actual experiences.

[Shield]

Does "not as described" mean something similar, but not quite... or does it apply to "not even close" or the "wrong item" too? Like buying a gumball machine and getting a old football hemet. Did you get a clearly defined explanation from Paypal when this happened to you? It would be very helpful to know exactly how they view this since you and LR had actual experiences.

 

 

I bought a Pep Comics #19 about a year ago from an EBAY'er. He called it a Fine/Very Fine, and almost the entire back cover was missing. At $200, I was very pissed. I contacted Paypal and spoke to several "managers" and they all told me the same thing:

 

To summarize "Sir, we can't do anything because we weren't there with you when you opened the box. It's his word against yours, and since you received SOMETHING, there's nothing we can do".

 

Me: "Oh, so I could sell a $1000 item and ship someone a box of newspaper clippings, and he'd have no recourse?"

 

Them: "Unfortunately at this time Paypal has no way to settle "not as described" disputes.

 

Sad but true. I emailed the guy every day for months from several different email accounts, but alas, I ATE the cost. It's been a bitter taste in my mouth ever since.

[Bronty]

Thanks for all the good advice everyone. The seller has indicated a willingess to accept a return (after I threatened to neg). Perhaps he will come through.

 

Question: if I ship the goods back to him, and he doesn't pay me, can I still do a chargeback if I keep the tracking #, make him sign for receipt, etc? I.e. as long as I keep proof of shipping it back to him I should be OK, right?

 

Dan

[greggy]

[dadaist]

Dan

 

Contact your credit card company, and explain the entire scenario to them. Issue a chargeback on the principles that you recieved a counterfiet item. The chargeback should automatically initiate a PayPal investigation against the seller. The seller's account will be debited the amount in question, and PayPal may also request the following from the seller to prove that he was actually involved in such a transaction:

 

i) a tracking number

 

As far as I know, it ought not matter whether the seller can provide a tracking number or not, he will be forced to refund you the amount, in the form of honouring the chargeback request to the credit card company. This can work in your favour regardless of whether the seller has agreed to issue you a refund or not. If he already has offered to accept the item, I would contact the cc company beforehand, and then send it back via XpressPost (if within Canada, with a signature confirmation). By contacting the cc comany first, they may advise you of certain particulars needed to secure your funds, and so you have all the proof that you returned the merchandise in question, should the cc company request this from you at any time. As far as I know, this seller has put himself in a very difficult position, on the one hand by selling an item that is counterfiet (eBay should also be notified) and on the other by accepting a payment from you via PayPal (might have been a very scary situation if you paid by M.O.). I'm sure the seller wants to do the right thing Dan, and you really shouldn't sweat it. But don't mistake concern with excercising sound judgement, as the seller may be well versed in these types of sitatuations from past dealings, and only in the instance of experience, may well have the upper hand in this situation.

 

Good Luck