The $2000 Riddle

[buyatari]

I wasn't saying Spawn was released first. I was saying that only because McFarlane developed his style in books like Spiderman that the fan frenzy around that style of art even existed. I'm going so far to say that fans of McFarlane were so frenzied that they bought the artwork of anyone who was even close to McFarlane.There just wasn't enough McFarlane art to satisfy the demand. So titles like Youndblood sold 900,000 copies and artists like Steven Platt rose to mega-success overnight only because fans just couldn't find enough McFarlane on the shelves.

 

Not so. YOUNGBLOOD sold on the strength of Rob Liefeld's name. Liefeld was huge, back in the day, and his NEW MUTANTS/X-FORCE titles were some of the biggest comics ever. X-Force #1 sold four million copies, a record for its time. YOUNGBLOOD's success didn't have anything to do with McFarlane.

 

Sure you can say Youngblood sold because of Liefeld. I say Liefeld was only as popular as he was because of McFarlane. Liefeld has never been a good artist in fact many consider him one the worst. His early success was only because his style was similar to that of McFarlane at the time fans were starved for more.

[Mighty Hal]

Sure you can say Youngblood sold because of Liefeld. I say Liefeld was only as popular as he was because of McFarlane. Liefeld has never been a good artist in fact many consider him one the worst. His early success was only because his style was similar to that of McFarlane at the time fans were starved for more.

 

Buyatari, you make an interesting argument.

 

I knew that McFarlane joined Marvel in 1988. I knew, also, that he was assigned to a popular comic book (Amazing Spider-Man). It wasn't long before he became a fan favorite. He was so popular that he eventually sold a huge 2.5 million copies of SPIDER-MAN #1 -- his all-time record.

 

Thanks to your wisdom, I now realize that Liefeld, coming to Marvel a year later, picked up their lowest-selling X-title and made it a hit...but only because people loved McFarlane so much. That's a deep, deep love.

 

The fans loved McFarlane so much that they bought 1.5 million MORE copies of Liefeld's X-FORCE #1 than they did of McFarlane's SPIDER-MAN. 'Cause, being fans, their McFarlane man-love made them act crazy that way.

 

They loved McFarlane so much that they didn't even mind that Liefeld tended to do team books while McFarlane preferred solo titles. The fans didn't care that Liefeld's style is completely different from McFarlane. (Your Stephen Platt argument made more sense, to me if not to the fans. Platt definitely had a McFarlane vibe.) None of that mattered to the comic buyers. They had to have their McFarlane fix and Liefeld was it.

 

Fans. They're just plain nuts.

 

 

 

[Pirate]

McFarlane's art on invasion for DC was horrible, was a wonder he got work after that.

[seanfingh]

Sure you can say Youngblood sold because of Liefeld. I say Liefeld was only as popular as he was because of McFarlane. Liefeld has never been a good artist in fact many consider him one the worst. His early success was only because his style was similar to that of McFarlane at the time fans were starved for more.

 

Buyatari, you make an interesting argument.

 

I knew that McFarlane joined Marvel in 1988. I knew, also, that he was assigned to a popular comic book (Amazing Spider-Man).

 

 

 

In the interest of staying factual, McFarlane's run on the Incredible Hulk preceded his work on ASM by more than a year. I was a teenager at the time, but it seemed to me that Hulk 340 came as a huge wake up call to the powers-that-be at Marvel and they decided to use this new fan fave to boost sales on ASM. Honestly, I have never considered Liefeld to be a poor man's McFarlane and don't remember him at all before New Mutants 87.

[tth2]

MacFarlane definitely gets credit for starting the craze by being the first artist at Marvel to attract a real following since Miller. His style simply looked different from anyone else`s at the time, and clearly the fans loved it. The buzz started as more and more people started to notice the great art from Todd and fantastic stories from Peter David in Hulk, which was a pretty dead title at the time. Marvel then gave its flagship title, ASM, to Todd and his popularity exploded.

 

Just as important, though, was the emergence of first Jim Lee and then Rob Liefeld, all within the same relative period of time. I think each was popular enough that they would have created a lot of buzz on their own, whether or not Todd had blazed the trail. But having them all together at the same time caused fan interest to be more broad-based, which is what separated this period from when John Byrne and then Frank Miller had their respective moments of popularity. Their popularity was too isolated and never led to a broader trend.

 

In contrast, having 3 superstar artists created interest in a broader range of titles, which showed Marvel that there was a real broad demand and encouraged them to trot out a bunch of new artists, which in turn fed the mania.

[buyatari]

Buyatari, you make an interesting argument.

 

I knew that McFarlane joined Marvel in 1988. I knew, also, that he was assigned to a popular comic book (Amazing Spider-Man). It wasn't long before he became a fan favorite. He was so popular that he eventually sold a huge 2.5 million copies of SPIDER-MAN #1 -- his all-time record.

 

Thanks to your wisdom, I now realize that Liefeld, coming to Marvel a year later, picked up their lowest-selling X-title and made it a hit...but only because people loved McFarlane so much. That's a deep, deep love.

 

The fans loved McFarlane so much that they bought 1.5 million MORE copies of Liefeld's X-FORCE #1 than they did of McFarlane's SPIDER-MAN. 'Cause, being fans, their McFarlane man-love made them act crazy that way.

 

They loved McFarlane so much that they didn't even mind that Liefeld tended to do team books while McFarlane preferred solo titles. The fans didn't care that Liefeld's style is completely different from McFarlane. (Your Stephen Platt argument made more sense, to me if not to the fans. Platt definitely had a McFarlane vibe.) None of that mattered to the comic buyers. They had to have their McFarlane fix and Liefeld was it.

 

Fans. They're just plain nuts.

 

 

 

 

 

95% of the Xforce sales was pure speculation on a #1 X book with 1 of 5 random card insert that was going to be worth more than New Mutants #87. Gotta get em all !

 

Sure Spiderman 1 had some marketing as well but in the battle over which book was marketed better to get the most sales Xforce wins. I do recall at the time some interest in how McFarlane would tell a Spiderman tale. I felt at the time that more people who bought it were interested in reading the Spiderman book than in the Xforce. There is no way to prove something like that. How did Spiderman 2 do against Xforce 2? I am asking because I really don't know.

 

I never mentioned Lee because I think he is a real talent but his star rose a bit quicker in these circimstances.

 

While McFarlane's style allowed him to take liberties with the human anatomy, Liefeld's took a blatant disregard. McFarlane still raises an eyebrow when he makes a move. So what happen to all those Liefeld "fans?" Did they really just have a change of heart or perhaps just perhaps he didn't have as many fans as we thought?

 

 

 

 

[Pirate]

Rob is always extremely busy at cons, so he still has his fans.

[buyatari]

Rob is always extremely busy at cons, so he still has his fans.

 

I compare him with the rock bands bands of that era like Poison and Warrant. Sure they had hits back in the day and can ever tour the country and stay busy but can he put out another hit?

 

Can he kick start a title the way Jim Lee did over at DC or is he just milking nostalgia for all its worth?

[tth2]

No one here is debating whether Liefeld is as good an artist as Jim Lee or MacFarlane, or even whether he was as popular. But there is no doubt that he was part of the Big 3 when Marvel Mania was at its peak in the early 90s and in the formation of Image, and I don't think his popularity at the time was just due to an unquenched thirst for MacFarlane work.

[buyatari]

No one here is debating whether Liefeld is as good an artist as Jim Lee or MacFarlane, or even whether he was as popular. But there is no doubt that he was part of the Big 3 when Marvel Mania was at its peak in the early 90s and in the formation of Image, and I don't think his popularity at the time was just due to an unquenched thirst for MacFarlane work.

 

He was at the right place at the right time. A very lucky man.

 

Sorry, I just got distracted after someone tried to use Liefeld as measuring stick.