Do Signature Series Add Value to Your Collection?

[DrWatson]

Either they don't want a comic that's written on or don't want a signature without the personal touch you get by meeting the creator.

 

Jim

 

I will tell you one thing, Jim. I am a huge SS consumer. I have always loved it as a product, but I was kind of feeling dissassociated from the creators by not getting sigs myself. (Obviously they wouldn't be SS anyway, because I am not a witness, but i could always drag a witness along with me.) I decided to get into getting some of my own sigs at last years Mid-Ohio. For every great experience (Sergio Aragones) there was a terrible experience (Rich Buckler ). For me it is far better to enjoy the autographed product, than to risk having my favorite creators turn out to be and ruin their work for me in toto. Ignorance is bliss.

Bliss.

 

Plus, what does Toto have to do with anything? Leave that little dog alone... perv.

[MedicAR]

I just noticed that I think most of us are answering the wrong question. For the most part we/ve all looked at whether Signature Series adds value to the book being signed. The question is "Do Signature Series Add Value to Your Collection?" Granted Whet's article looks at adding value to the book, but the question actaully asked is does it add value to your collection?

 

That one is easy. Yes, CGC SS adds value to my collection! It's brought me back into collecting in a big, big way. Keep in miind that value doesn't have to be monetary, there is value in happiness too!

 

The signature adds personal value not it being placed in a slab...

 

Jim

 

It's a combination, the slab authenticates the signature.

[MedicAR]

The signature adds personal value not it being placed in a slab...

 

Jim

I would disagree. Being placed in the slab offers authentication of the signature which adds personal or monetary value.

 

See that where I differ in regards to a signed comic. The comic doesn't have personal value unless I was the one who got the signature. It's the meeting that makes the signature significant and adds value.

 

I used to be that way, but living in Arkansas limits the shows I can attend and the creators I cna meet. CGC SS allows me to pick up authentic signatures without worry.

[gcstomp]

Whet started this thread with a well researched overview in a link. No one has disputed his numbers. Value is added via CGC SS in the open market vs same CGC. Whether it adds value to you personally is missing the mark.

 

I personally love the CGC SS stuff in select cases, but even if I hated them, I should still be able to read the info in link and say, yes there is added value as can be seen by the numbers, its just a segmented audience.

[MedicAR]

Well, John Byrne signed what is now my X-Men 143 on my birthday. To me, that's personal.

 

Plus, autograph seeking has been part of comic collecting for decades. To say they don't compliment one another is a fallacy. Furthermore, not everyone has the ability to get something signed in person. This service offers everyone the opportunity to have an authentic signature, thereby giving them a more personal connection to the hobby as a whole.

 

That's what I was trying to say. Thanks for putting it more eloquently!

[jordanscott]

Sure...and the seekers were mostly always the getters of the signature. The Sig series as a product cannot duplicate the personal touch of acquiring the signature and thus removes any perceived personal value. It's just a comic that's been written on in my opinion.

 

But hey to each their own...the question was asked and I answered it...

 

Jim

 

I used to feel that way with sports cards until I pulled a few auto cards with cut and bandaid autos of players that I actually liked.

 

I used to think it was a bit of a scam...(well, I still do) to get the player to sign a bunch of stickers to put on the cards but then I thought about it and for the most part these autos are the best I'm going to get since I don't go to games and the local signings are usually the local teams I don't support.

 

That thought process carried over into the SS world for me. I could care less about the slab or grade but the verification means I know I'm getting the sig of a creator I like. Don't go to shows or other venues for signings so SS books do it for me.

[MedicAR]

Either they don't want a comic that's written on or don't want a signature without the personal touch you get by meeting the creator.

 

Jim

 

I will tell you one thing, Jim. I am a huge SS consumer. I have always loved it as a product, but I was kind of feeling dissassociated from the creators by not getting sigs myself. (Obviously they wouldn't be SS anyway, because I am not a witness, but i could always drag a witness along with me.) I decided to get into getting some of my own sigs at last years Mid-Ohio. For every great experience (Sergio Aragones) there was a terrible experience (Rich Buckler ). For me it is far better to enjoy the autographed product, than to risk having my favorite creators turn out to be and ruin their work for me in toto. Ignorance is bliss.

 

Another good point...... (thumbs u

[MedicAR]

Whet started this thread with a well researched overview in a link. No one has disputed his numbers. Value is added via CGC SS in the open market vs same CGC. Whether it adds value to you personally is missing the mark.

 

I personally love the CGC SS stuff in select cases, but even if I hated them, I should still be able to read the info in link and say, yes there is added value as can be seen by the numbers, its just a segmented audience.

 

I'm not convinced his numbers bare it out becuase of the coincidences pointed out earlier with the movies' release dates. The numbers appear to demonstrate that CGC SS increases value, but the dates of sale may tie those nubmers to other factors.

[nik]

Sigs add a little bit of pizzaz to a book IMO. They are no different then a date stamp, as long as the sig is neatly written on the cover. I have about a dozen or so and I do enjoy owning them.

 

As far as do they add value to my collection, it really comes down to what the new buyer is willing to spend, but I do enjoy having them, value or not.

[joe_collector]

Whet started this thread with a well researched overview in a link. No one has disputed his numbers. Value is added via CGC SS in the open market vs same CGC. Whether it adds value to you personally is missing the mark.

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of Signature Series books. I have about two dozen,but in every case but one,the SS sold for less than the GPA of a regular copy would go for. I won't pay one cent more for a SS book ,but if I can get it cheaper than a regular one,I'll buy all day.

[joe_collector]

I'm not convinced his numbers bare it out becuase of the coincidences pointed out earlier with the movies' release dates. The numbers appear to demonstrate that CGC SS increases value, but the dates of sale may tie those nubmers to other factors.

 

Not to mention there are no era breakdowns, or whether the book was a key or not, etc.

 

For example, I can take a book off the shelf, get it CGC SS'd at 9.0-9.6 and sell it for far more than a CGC 9.0-9.6, which is virtually worthless.

 

What does that prove? We all know that 99.999% of Moderns at less than 9.8 are worthless.

 

I would like to see the SS vs. Blue label breakdown at 9.8 for Moderns, minimum, and 9.4 minimum for the rest, to really prove if the SS is providing value.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I'm not convinced his numbers bare it out becuase of the coincidences pointed out earlier with the movies' release dates. The numbers appear to demonstrate that CGC SS increases value, but the dates of sale may tie those nubmers to other factors.

 

Not to mention there are no era breakdowns, or whether the book was a key or not, etc.

 

For example, I can take a book off the shelf, get it CGC SS'd at 9.0-9.6 and sell it for far more than a CGC 9.0-9.6, which is virtually worthless.

 

What does that prove? We all know that 99.999% of Moderns at less than 9.8 are worthless.

 

I would like to see the SS vs. Blue label breakdown at 9.8 for Moderns, minimum, and 9.4 minimum for the rest, to really prove if the SS is providing value.

 

GPA is pretty convincing that S.S books bring higher prices. Why ? I really cant say, autograph chasers ? But even modern signature series dont bring much as far as sales if it is less then 9.6 . Unless of course it is a key. And the statement of the modern under 9.8 is virtually worthless you are pretty much 100% right (there are very few exceptions) .

[gcstomp]

What does that Shadroch response mean to you JC? We all can buy 2 dozen CGC of anything, say Disney, or Western, or celebrity covers, whatever .... books under GPA by selectively setting snipes on a few hundred auctions on ebay over the course of a few months, for instance.

 

For myself, any book I can think of that I have looked at GPA for a Stan Lee sig for instance has sold for more than the exact CGC grade would sell without. A Frazetta sig I wont even look up as that is so clearly value added its a given, but say any hard to find celebrity on a book, like Arnold Schwargeneger on a Terminater book, Summer Glau on a Serenity, Bill Cosby on one of his photo covers, whatever I am sure you can think up a hundred instances, CGC SS would be a huge value added, no one is saying for everyone, but there would be a premium in market.

 

Also, all those specialty blank covers out recently, the Fallen Son, Secret Invasion, Red Sonja were created especially to satisfy what is demand in market, for creator involved sketches, which CGC SS compliments. I give weight to the Whet link, and appreciate the work that went into it.

[Pirate]

The signature adds personal value not it being placed in a slab...

 

Jim

I would disagree. Being placed in the slab offers authentication of the signature which adds personal or monetary value.

 

See that where I differ in regards to a signed comic. The comic doesn't have personal value unless I was the one who got the signature. It's the meeting that makes the signature significant and adds value.

 

Buying a comic with a signature means nothing to me unless I have some connection to getting the signature. On it's own it's a comic that someone, someone famous maybe, wrote on. That doesn't do anything for me and I personally wouldn't want it for my collection. I'm not going to pay for something that is packaged as more personal than a typical comic when in fact there's nothing personal about it...

 

The Sig series seems to me like an attempt to merge two different collecting genres that don't really fit. I'm sure there a demand for them but I also see the Sig series turning a portion of the collecting crowd off. Either they don't want a comic that's written on or don't want a signature without the personal touch you get by meeting the creator.

 

Jim

 

To each their own

[gcstomp]

1 lil problem with doing a 9.8 analysis of CGC SS vs Blue label, SS collectors do not need a 9.8 to love a book. The high grade collector is not absolutely also an SS collector.

[joe_collector]

For myself, any book I can think of that I have looked at GPA for a Stan Lee sig for instance has sold for more than the exact CGC grade would sell without. A Frazetta sig I wont even look up as that is so clearly value added its a given

 

Of course, but that's the entire point - Stan Lee, Frazetta and others are on a totally different plane that 99% of the SS schlock, and making broad statements about "SS books selling for more" needs to be tempered by the fact that a very small percentage of the SS slabs out there are contributing greatly to the % increase.

 

And I am not saying Whet's analysis is incorrect, only that there is a lot more to it than just blanket numbers.

 

For one, most SS books, since they do have a higher "production cost" usually sit at ultra-high BINs, just waiting for that select buyer to come along. Many are already "museum pieces" that sit in EBay stores gathering dust, and if they do sell, naturally have a higher price.

 

That Punisher 129 Stan Lee Cockroach Cover is a great example - it'll probably sit there for months/years until some nimrod comes along and buys it, but what does that mean in terms of "real market prices"?

[Mr. Zipper]

I just noticed that I think most of us are answering the wrong question. For the most part we/ve all looked at whether Signature Series adds value to the book being signed. The question is "Do Signature Series Add Value to Your Collection?" Granted Whet's article looks at adding value to the book, but the question actaully asked is does it add value to your collection?

 

That one is easy. Yes, CGC SS adds value to my collection! It's brought me back into collecting in a big, big way. Keep in miind that value doesn't have to be monetary, there is value in happiness too!

 

The signature adds personal value not it being placed in a slab...

 

Jim

 

It's a combination, the slab authenticates the signature.

 

Thank goodness. The market was flooded with fake Jimmy Palmiottis and Herb Trimpes.

 

 

A totally manufactured issue to sell their "brand extension: - the CGC SS.

 

The hundreds of sigs I obtained before CGC SS was cooked up by the CS Marketing Department are just as meaningful and authentic as anything in a melinex authentication chamber.

 

As a long time autograph collector, the wisdom in that hobby has always been "do your homework." Study, learn, ask questions. If you wanted a Babe Ruth signature, study, study and learn the signature. Find out who the reputable resources were and seek them out. Find a mentor. Collecting was a journey where one grew.

 

Modern day comic collecting on the other hand...

 

So many collectors don't want to learn how to grade, detect resto, or anything else for that matter. Let someone else handle it and I'll just swipe a credit card. Instant big time collecting cred.

 

I'm waiting for the day where comic collectors won't even have to handle or store their books anymore. Just ship them to CGC where they are graded, added to the Registry and warehoused. (This actually isn't that far-fetched.)

 

[shadroch]

The difference being that when you try to sell your autographs,the buyer either buys on faith or spends bucks to get them authenticated.

With the SS series,the authenticity of the signature should be unimpeachable.no?

Its really the same formula CGC used with the original slabbing idea. Grade a book,slab it and there will be no question of its grade in the future.

The SS series authenticates the signature and locks it in a tamper proof container.

While the autographs you obtained prior may be just as authentic,the don't have the built in proof SS books do.

I have a FF with what certainly looks like Jack Kirbys signature on the front page.

But I can't say for certain it is his signature as I didn't obtain it myself,and there will always be questions about it. Not so with Yellow Label boks.

[Mr. Zipper]

The difference being that when you try to sell your autographs,the buyer either buys on faith or spends bucks to get them authenticated.

 

There is a wide chasm between faith and paying for a third party authentication service. That chasm is KNOWLEDGE. I could look at your Jack Kirby sig and know whether it was real or not. It comes from studying hundreds of known authentic exemplars. Experienced collectors know the real deal and will pay just as much for raw as an "authenticated" exemplar. It has nothing to do with faith.

 

Just like folks who can grade their own books and detect resto without CGC's help... it comes from learning... not faith.

 

(Experienced aurtograph collectors laugh at PSA/DNA authentications... they "authenticate" autopens and preprinted signatures all the time. Only newbies with no experience buy the hype and think they are the ultimate authority.)

 

 

[DrWatson]

You have a very valid point; however, I don't want to dedicate my free time to acquiring enough knowledge to know whether or not my Alan Davis signature is authentic.