Not another pressing thread.

[DrWatson]

Is it really all about the label for you, as your post seems to imply?

No, it's about knowledge that one person holds and is not imparting to the other.

 

If you are saying it's a 9.4 and know that CGC graded it a 9.2, then that's when I have an issue.

 

These two statements seem contradictory, as the second suggests that it is indeed all about the CGC label for you. After all, you are saying that if CGC graded a book, you need to know what they graded it.

 

When buying raw books, I much prefer depending on my own grading opinion to that of CGC. Excluding their opinion on restoration, of course. For one thing, I know what I like in my comics better than CGC does. For another, I learned early on in the third party grading game that CGC grading has a fair amount of, shall we say, variance - books graded at different times can receive grades from CGC that differ by two grading units.

No, it isn't. Apparently you are not understanding what I am saying. However, that's fine.

[namisgr]

Is it really all about the label for you, as your post seems to imply?

No, it's about knowledge that one person holds and is not imparting to the other.

 

If you are saying it's a 9.4 and know that CGC graded it a 9.2, then that's when I have an issue.

 

These two statements seem contradictory, as the second suggests that it is indeed all about the CGC label for you. After all, you are saying that if CGC graded a book, you need to know what they graded it.

 

When buying raw books, I much prefer depending on my own grading opinion to that of CGC. Excluding their opinion on restoration, of course. For one thing, I know what I like in my comics better than CGC does. For another, I learned early on in the third party grading game that CGC grading has a fair amount of, shall we say, variance - books graded at different times can receive grades from CGC that differ by two grading units.

No, it isn't. Apparently you are not understanding what I am saying. However, that's fine.

 

So you need to know what my comic collecting friend graded a book in addition to me? Because if his opinion doesn't matter, but you've just gotta know CGC's, then for you it's all about the CGC label.

[DrWatson]

No, it isn't. It is about the withholding of information. However, if you chose to call me a label chaser then that is your prerogative. Furthermore, one could equate the desire to purchase pedigree books a form of label chasing as well.

[lizards2]

personally, I would take what Brian said over what that damm label said....,

[Old Fashion PB and J]

personally, I would take what Brian said over what that damm label said....,

 

The man can grade.

[namisgr]

No, it isn't. It is about the withholding of information. However, if you chose to call me a label chaser then that is your prerogative. Furthermore, one could equate the desire to purchase pedigree books a form of label chasing as well.

 

This makes no sense to me either, Doc. Pedigree collections were around and highly desired in the marketplace long before the advent of CGC, for one thing. For another, many people (including me) own pedigree books that aren't encapsulated. Pedigrees are about provenance and not grade.

[namisgr]

No, it isn't. It is about the withholding of information.

 

Unless you also insist on knowing my friends' grades, then the only information that you insist not be witheld is from the CGC label.

[DrWatson]

No, it isn't. It is about the withholding of information. However, if you chose to call me a label chaser then that is your prerogative. Furthermore, one could equate the desire to purchase pedigree books a form of label chasing as well.

 

This makes no sense to me either, Doc. Pedigree collections were around long before the advent of CGC and were highly desired in the marketplace, for one thing. For another, many people (including me) own pedigree books that aren't encapsulated.

Encapsulation has nothing to do wit it. They are still "labeled" books. You prefer book A over book B because it has a label of some definition attached to it.

[namisgr]

Encapsulation has nothing to do wit it. They are still "labeled" books. You prefer book A over book B because it has a label of some definition attached to it.

 

As I posted earlier, pedigrees are about provenance and not a grade, label or definition.

[DrWatson]

Like I said earlier, you are not understanding what I am saying. However, that's fine.

[namisgr]

Actually, Doc, I'm disagreeing with you.

 

So when I sell you a book, in addition to my grade do you need to know the grade of the dealer who sold it to me, my friend's grade, or just a CGC grade? All would seem to fit under the category of witholding of information.

[DrWatson]

I am saying that if you had a book graded by a third party grading company, disagreed with that grade and subsequently cracked that book out of the slab and offered it for sale at a high grade then, yes, I would want to know what that third party graded that book. Just like I don't care if a book has been pressed and you do. Furthermore, I don't care what your friend thinks the book should grade, unless he or she happens to work for a third party grading service. If that makes me a label chaser then bring it on.

 

Call it missing my point. Call it disagreeing with me. Call it a generation gap. It doesn't matter.

 

Bygones.

[Ze-man]

It doesn't really matter. I am in the minority. I would much rather have the seller tell me a book was a previously graded an 8.X or 9.X and they did not agree with the grade and cracked it out than to tell me a book had been pressed. However, I guess I can remedy that situation myself and ask if the book has ever been professionally grade when I purchase a raw book.

 

What is your approach at a show, when you can hold, see, smell and grade the book yourself? In this case, you've got your own and the seller's opinion both - why does CGC's opinion matter a whit in this case? Is it really all about the label for you, as your post seems to imply?

No, it's about knowledge that one person holds and is not imparting to the other. Withholding knowledge that could impact a purchase is withholding knowledge. If you and I are both looking at a book and I say it's a 9.2 and you say it's a 9.4, then that's fine. If you are saying it's a 9.4 and know that CGC graded it a 9.2, then that's when I have an issue.

 

Hey Jim, what if 2 out of 3 CGC graders graded it a 9.4 and the finalizer pegged it as 9.2 ( even within CGC grading is subjective). So a person cracks the book out because they feel it should have graded higher, and in doing so they might have lost their best chance to sell the book for GPA pricing because some collectors prefer in buying slabbed books. But it is within their right to do so and not say a word about what "anyone else" even CGC graded it. We all have sometimes questioned how CGC grades certain books, sometimes on the low side, other times left scratching our heads as to why a book got a 9.6. (hence the mantra "buy the book , not the label")

 

So in your scenario you are expecting the seller to inform you that the book was previously slabbed at 9.2 that was .2 lower then he is selling it to you? I say big whoop, look at the book in front of you and compare it to his asking price. He can say a book is a certain grade all day long, but in the end it is up to you to decide if it is worth it to you for whatever price you work out with him.

 

Would it be out of the question to ask, or him to tell you upfront? Not at all, but I also do not see any reason for him to say he bought book X and cracked it out because he thought he had a better shot at selling it with his own assigned grade raw, question is will he be able to sell it raw at his higher grade(and price) or sit on it and have people pass because they would prefer it graded.

 

 

[MCMiles]

I will be the first to say that obviously CGC is not 100% consistent with their grading and I would not expect a seller to disclose the CGC grade if selling the book to me raw. However, I would be much, much more concerned about the previous CGC grade rather than wether or not the book has been pressed. Especially as often as I see certain people post that CGC was too hard on thier books.

 

But hey, that's just me. I think for now on I'm going to ask; "Has the book ever been CGC graded and what was the grade?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I am saying that if you had a book graded by a third party grading company, disagreed with that grade and subsequently cracked that book out of the slab and offered it for sale at a high grade then, yes, I would want to know what that third party graded that book. Just like I don't care if a book has been pressed and you do. Furthermore, I don't care what your friend thinks the book should grade, unless he or she happens to work for a third party grading service. If that makes me a label chaser then bring it on.

 

Call it missing my point. Call it disagreeing with me. Call it a generation gap. It doesn't matter.

 

Bygones.

 

 

Heres another scenario I dont think has been explored. What if the book is cracked out of the 9.2 holder, sold as raw 9.4 , but the buyer re-subs expecting to get a 9.4 and lo and behold 9.2 . Now what does the guy do who sold the book. If you pay for a NM book and get a NM- , what is the position now ? Do you refund the money for the book and slabbing fees ? Or do you look at the buyer and say "well my opinion is the book is 9.4 .

 

Would have saved alot of hassle, and or refund/possible loss of customer had you explained CGC already graded the book 9.2, but you disagreed. Disclosure of any "useful" knowledge can be a big help.

[MCMiles]

I am saying that if you had a book graded by a third party grading company, disagreed with that grade and subsequently cracked that book out of the slab and offered it for sale at a high grade then, yes, I would want to know what that third party graded that book. Just like I don't care if a book has been pressed and you do. Furthermore, I don't care what your friend thinks the book should grade, unless he or she happens to work for a third party grading service. If that makes me a label chaser then bring it on.

 

Call it missing my point. Call it disagreeing with me. Call it a generation gap. It doesn't matter.

 

Bygones.

 

 

Heres another scenario I dont think has been explored. What if the book is cracked out of the 9.2 holder, sold as raw 9.4 , but the buyer re-subs expecting to get a 9.4 and lo and behold 9.2 . Now what does the guy do who sold the book. If you pay for a NM book and get a NM- , what is the position now ? Do you refund the money for the book and slabbing fees ? Or do you look at the buyer and say "well my opinion is the book is 9.4 .

 

Would have saved alot of hassle, and or refund/possible loss of customer had you explained CGC already graded the book 9.2, but you disagreed. Disclosure of any "useful" knowledge can be a big help.

 

Once you have had the chance to hold the book in your hand, it is your responsibility as far as grading goes. You make the choice to send it to CGC.

 

If buying on-line, I would suggest only buying from sellers that accept returns. If it is person to person, make your own call. For me it is the same answer to all of these debates. The buyer needs to take responsibility for themselves. They need to ask questions and buy from people they feel they can trust.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I am saying that if you had a book graded by a third party grading company, disagreed with that grade and subsequently cracked that book out of the slab and offered it for sale at a high grade then, yes, I would want to know what that third party graded that book. Just like I don't care if a book has been pressed and you do. Furthermore, I don't care what your friend thinks the book should grade, unless he or she happens to work for a third party grading service. If that makes me a label chaser then bring it on.

 

Call it missing my point. Call it disagreeing with me. Call it a generation gap. It doesn't matter.

 

Bygones.

 

 

Heres another scenario I dont think has been explored. What if the book is cracked out of the 9.2 holder, sold as raw 9.4 , but the buyer re-subs expecting to get a 9.4 and lo and behold 9.2 . Now what does the guy do who sold the book. If you pay for a NM book and get a NM- , what is the position now ? Do you refund the money for the book and slabbing fees ? Or do you look at the buyer and say "well my opinion is the book is 9.4 .

 

Would have saved alot of hassle, and or refund/possible loss of customer had you explained CGC already graded the book 9.2, but you disagreed. Disclosure of any "useful" knowledge can be a big help.

 

Once you have had the chance to hold the book in your hand, it is your responsibility as far as grading goes. You make the choice to send it to CGC.

 

If buying on-line, I would suggest only buying from sellers that accept returns. If it is person to person, make your own call. For me it is the same answer to all of these debates. The buyer needs to take responsibility for themselves. They need to ask questions and buy from people they feel they can trust.

 

Most real world buyers are not terribly good at grading. Its a fact. I understand what you are saying, and agree to a point. But you may be surprised how many collectors really are terrible graders, and will trust 100% what a dealer tells them. These are the situations I am trying to bring here. Which is near impossible, because people here think this board represents the average collector. This board does NOT represent the average collector.

 

But I will say as far as you,me, or many other forumites are concerned you have a solid point. But watch the PGM forum often for a few weeks, you may be surprised at how many people on here "miss the mark" as often as you use the toilet.

[arexcrooke]

If it was CGC graded then I think it should be disclosed if the book has been cracked out.

Good for the goose and all that

 

[Ze-man]

This is what I get for trying to make a reply after only reading the last few posts in the thread

 

My sarcasm detector must have switched off since I was away the past few days.

 

goose and gander indeed.

 

 

 

[sborock]

"goose and gander"

 

Do they even buy comics?

 

And if so, who would be more likely to disclose pressing, the goose or the gander...

 

BTW...Kenny, your cell just went right to voice mail when I tried to call..........