Centerfold loose grade??? 1 1

[Kenwho]

I've seen some people grading books with centerfolds detached at one staple with different grades, 5.5, 6.5, even 7.0. Now not being the longtime grader most of you guys are I have been trying to follow Overstreet guidlines and they list a book with a detached at one staple as a 4.5 at best.

 

Am I missing something?? If the book is a higher grade, say a 8.5 otherwise, but the centerfold is detached does the grade get lowered by a certain amount just because of that or does it drop right down to 4.5??

 

Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[TFL-migration]

If someone has a nice, solid 8.0 book but the cover is detached. It will automatically take a HUGE nose dive in grade. Pretty much automatic to a 4.5 Max... 4.5 is the highest grade I have seen on a book with a detached cover. But The CGC does not use Overstreet grading guidelines.

[blazingbob]

More Fun #54 8.0 with white pages I owned had centerfold detached at bottom staple, CGC graded a 8.0

 

bob

Edited September 21, 2008 by blazingbob

[Comicdey]

I've got a phenonomenal black cover supersnipe issue slabbed as an 8.0 qualified due to a loose centerfold. I guess CGC thinkgs it looks like an 8, but didn't downgrade for the loose centerfold but Green labeled it instead.

[VintageComics]

I think the highest a book can grade with CGC is 8.5 with a detached centerfold at one staple. The book has to be otherwise flawless for something like that to happen.

 

I had an early SA book with a detached centerfold (one staple) that CGC gave a 6.5. The book was a 7.0/7.5 otherwise.

 

The reason some books grade lower is because there are other defects bringing the book down. For example if a book is already a VG or VG/F the detached centerfold does not bring the book down as much as if the book was a VF or NM book.

 

Keep in mind that books can have 1, 2 or 3 staples.

 

R.

 

[greggy]

My FF 72 graded an universal 9.4 back in 2002 with the centerfold detached at the bottom staple. The defect was noted on the label.

[CheezyWhiz]

My FF 72 graded an universal 9.4 back in 2002 with the centerfold detached at the bottom staple. The defect was noted on the label.

 

Wow.. this is surprising and unsettling. How could they possibly grade a book with a detached centerfold to be Near Mint? Didn't they have Qualified labels back in 2002? (I haven't been buying CGC stuff long enough to know.)

[Cimm]

I've always thought that in the case of a single major defect, you should decide what the book would grade otherwise, THEN detract for the main defect... i.e, if your book would otherwise be a 9.8, than a detached CF at the bottom staple would bring it down a couple of grades, to a 9.4... same book, COVER detached at the bottom staple would bring it down to a 6.0, since any cover defect is FAR more damaging to the overall aspect of a given book than the same damage to a cf...

 

I think that what CGC does, from what I have observed, is something similar to this line of reasoning, taking it as their particular mission in this hobby to grade each book on its' own merits, irregardless of the grade given for similar damage to other books... to some this is indicative of inconsistency, but to me it is simply a different way to grade, and one that makes a certain kind of sense...

 

[VintageComics]

My FF 72 graded an universal 9.4 back in 2002 with the centerfold detached at the bottom staple. The defect was noted on the label.

 

That had to be a screw up. No way that is possible. Still have a scan?

 

R.

 

 

[greggy]

No

[Comicdey]

sold it like a hot potato?

[greggy]

sold it like a hot potato?

First ever sub

[Kenwho]

So let me get this straight.

 

1.) Overstreet lists grading guidelines.

 

2.) CGC is the standard by which books are graded in the industry.

 

3.) You can't follow the Overstreet guidelines because CGC doesn't.

 

4.) CGC doesn't list their guidelines for anyone to follow

 

Is that about it???

[VintageComics]

Actually I think it's more like this:

 

Overstreet guidlines are the rule.

CGC "bends" overstreet guidlines to make exceptions in extreme cases.

 

Example. A 9.8 book has a centerfold loose at one staple.

 

Overstreet (can't remember right now) lists it at VG range or Fine range.

CGC gives it an 8.5.

 

Something like that, anyways.

 

R.

 

 

[dopy02]

My FF 72 graded an universal 9.4 back in 2002 with the centerfold detached at the bottom staple. The defect was noted on the label.

 

That had to be a screw up. No way that is possible. Still have a scan?

 

R.

 

 

Pedigree has a FF 77 CGC 9.2 blue label / centerfold detached from bottom staple only / noted on label

 

and btw- the book has been for sale for a year and even though it is priced to sell no one seems to want it

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=1568

 

 

[cd4ever]

My FF 72 graded an universal 9.4 back in 2002 with the centerfold detached at the bottom staple. The defect was noted on the label.

 

That had to be a screw up. No way that is possible. Still have a scan?

 

R.

 

 

Pedigree has a FF 77 CGC 9.2 blue label / centerfold detached from bottom staple only / noted on label

 

and btw- the book has been for sale for a year and even though it is priced to sell no one seems to want it

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=1568

 

Crazy. If you're going to grade books, then effin grade books. That can't be better than a 7.0/7.5.

 

No wonder I stopped buying slabs.

[VintageComics]

My FF 72 graded an universal 9.4 back in 2002 with the centerfold detached at the bottom staple. The defect was noted on the label.

 

That had to be a screw up. No way that is possible. Still have a scan?

 

R.

 

 

Pedigree has a FF 77 CGC 9.2 blue label / centerfold detached from bottom staple only / noted on label

 

and btw- the book has been for sale for a year and even though it is priced to sell no one seems to want it

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=1568

 

Crazy. If you're going to grade books, then effin grade books. That can't be better than a 7.0/7.5.

 

No wonder I stopped buying slabs.

 

In both greggy's case and this Pedigree case these were done on very old grading labels. Unless we get an official answer the only thing I can say is that CGC was probably in a state of evolution and no longer do this. To me it's unheard of to have a NM range book with a popped staple.

 

There was a Hawkman #1 on Pedigree that was spectacular a few years ago. The book was 9.4/9.6 gorgeous with a popped staple at the centerfold. It was graded an 8.5. That to me was a reasonable compromise as a NM grade would have been foolish. By limiting the book to the VF range the book was not done a dis-service nor would be the buyer. That was where I extarapolated my logic and thought that CGC would never give a book with a popped centerfold (at one staple) more than an 8.5.

 

The only thing about that book though, was that there was NO label notation about the centerfold being popped. I had to call for grader's notes to get that info.

 

 

R.

 

 

[Kenwho]

Ok.. So I understand CGC can bend the rules when grading because they are the end all in the grading world. BUT.. I've seen sellers here on the boards grade as a lets say F/VF and describing the book as "with centerfold detached at bottom staple".

 

So the correct way to grade and sell a book is to grade it without taking into consideration the centerfold detachment and list it with a notation that the centerfold is detached?

 

That seems kind of crazy to me. If you did that for every kind of defect then you could list every book as a NM/MT and then just note all the defects.

 

What makes a centerfold detachment so special???

 

 

[VintageComics]

Ken they are not grading the book without the defect.

 

Some sellers don't feel comfortable grading some defects so they might say something along the lines of "would be 7.0 but for the detached centerfold"...or they could say "7.0...would grade higher except the book has a detached centerfold".

 

See the difference? One is grading the book *except* the one defect he does not want to add into the grade equation, the other has provided an actual grade with a description of what keeps it from grading higher.

 

I don't think CGC "bends" the rules as much as they try to find a compromise or balance between defects and eye appeal. Whether we agree with their idea of *balance* is another thing but Overstreet was extrememly harsh and unforgiving on some things despite the appearance of the rest of the book...this is I think where CGC has improvised a bit.

 

R.

 

 

[Kenwho]

Alright I think I'm beginning to see..

 

Most people feel that Overstreets lowering the grade of a book down to a 4.5 regardless of the condition of the rest of the book is too harsh, (I always thought that was pretty harsh myself), so they feel more comfortable grading with either of those examples you gave letting the potential buyer determine how much the detached centerfold lowers the grade to him or her and then deciding wether or not to pay what the seller is asking.

 

I guess my confusion came about not realizing that Overstreets guidlines are different than CGC's guidlines.

 

Thanks for clearing this up for me. Much appreciated!!