The 10 Magazine Keys.

[namisgr]

Hard to argue against this one. It's got longevity, cultural impact (THE premiere American humor mag of the 20th century), and remarkable stables of writers and artists all going for it. Only thing that blunts its' impact is that it was preceded by 23 comics of similar quality.

 

[Cimm]

Web of Horror #3 (first Berni Wrightson cover)

Vampirella #1 (Origin and first appearance Vampirella)

Vampirella #8 (first serious Vampirella story)

Vampirella Annual #1 (New Origin Vampirella)

Creepy #1 (first Warren comic mag, last Frazetta art in comics)

Eerie #1 (only printed 1000 copies, an ashcan for a long-lived series)

the EC Picto-Fiction line (Crime, Terror, Confessions, and Shock Illustrated)... the direct result of the comics code, and the progenitor of the Warrens, etc.

Psycho #1 (first Skywald horror comic)

 

 

that's all I can think of right now... kinda rough day...

 

additions...

 

Mad #24

Cracked #1

the National Lampoon Frazetta covers...

Eerie #81 (Classic Frazetta Kong cover)

Weirdo #1 (Robert Crumb magazine format underground)

the Crumb Arcade covers

Tales of the Zombie #1 (Marvel/Curtis)

 

I think for the mags, the art will be the basis for "key" status... there aren't many first

appearances, but the ones there are are pretty cool art-wise as well, so should be included on both merit-scales, IMO...

[Jayman]

Well you obviously have disdain for these mags (not sure why with all the blatant talent therein) so this will be my last reply.

I just disagree with your reasonings.

Jayman, its obvious from your responses that you're very passionate about the Skywalds, and more power to you for loving those mags as you do. But rather than speak about the entire line of Skywald Mags, is there one particular title or issue that you see as more relevant/key than the top ten list of individual issues I put together?

 

Well that goes back to my including the first issues of Nightmare and Psycho in my top 10 list. I'd put both these issues above: Good Lord, Man, Psycho #1 is all reprints! How is all-reprints more key than any of the 3 mags below? Not true, seems you're relying on incorrect OSPG info here. There were two new illustrated stories in Psycho #1, one with art by Gray Morrow and the other credited to Len Wein. Dracula Lives #2 (1st Origin of Dracula) Not a new character True, not a new character, but a very significant character nonetheless with TWO magazine titles devoted to him in the 70s, and a bi-monthly comic lasting 70 issues.

Marvel Comics Super Special #1 (Made with real KISS blood. 'nuff said) I guess if you liked KISS

Spectacular Spiderman #1 (Marvel's first B&W superhero mag) The Skywalds beat this out on longevity and talent Sorry, but they do not beat this out on talent. Sorry back atcha as they do. Although it is a bit unfare comparing run to run as SS only lasted 2 issues. You are definately in the minority on that one. Sez you.

 

And again my reasoning is they are #1s of titles that influenced, showcased, and introduced a number of talented artists and writers thereby establishing themselves as one of the more memorable horror mags of the '70s. I still stand by that statement. and yet you've only cited one or two names of 'talented' folks that were actually introduced in Skywald mags, and then you went on to re-neg on one of them (Byrne) *sigh* Well I didn't list any of the Latin-American artists as you seem to think they don't count, how about the fact that Dave Sim made his professional debut in Psycho #24? So I'm not a Byrne fan, sue me!

Now with regard to your rebuttal points:

 

Skywald talent...um yeah, Syd Shores? Pablo Marcos, Don Heck? C'mon brother, if that's the cream of the crop at Skywald, then our taste in artists is clearly different. Oh, and speak to Marv Wolfman and John Byrne and they will confirm their work for Skywald was dreck. Please, ask them in person if you don't want to take my word for it.

 

I love Heck and Marcos! Why leave out Everett? Also you could add Wrightson, Jeff Jones, Bruce Jones, and Ken Kelly to the list of Skywald talent. I really could care less about Byrne but a first prof. work notation is there none-the-less. (to some Byrne fans Nightmare #20 is a key book )I left Everett out because I thought he was one of the best during the 30s and 40s, a talented artist in the 50s and early 60s, but his talent was severly diminished due to alcoholism by the time he worked on Skywald. He was certainly their best 'regular' artist, but a shadow of his former self. OK, but what about the others I listed just above? And I'll add 3 more to that list: Jerry Siegal, Michael Kaluta, and Rich Buckler (all shabby talent I know! )

I'll give you points on the Boris covers, but how many did he do for Skywald, maybe 5 covers? Are any of them considered keys or designated as 'classic' covers?

 

I think he did about 4 or 5 and are you asking if OSPG notates if these are classic covers? I don't think so but I think they are. Don't forget the terrific Jeff Jones, Ken Kelly and Sebastia Boada covers too! They were not as good as their Warren work. Sorry Sounds like a blanket statement there, again your opinion. I believe they were just as good.

Endearing/recurring characters - lets assume that the ones you've listed have universal appeal. Again, is there a specific issue that you would place higher than my top 10 list? Which title/issue?

 

Skywald did not really stand out because of enduring characters. There were no "secret origin" issues or major "death of a character" issues that would make any of their mags be added to a top 10 list. Although "The Saga of the Victims" has been given TPB status.

 

Latin American artists - "Skywald not being able to always hire the big names in the business at the time used a stable of Latin-American artists, some of which were extremely talented and drew some fabulous stories. They along with the talent mentioned earlier makes your comment "mostly aweful most of the time to barely passable" ridiculous IMHO"

 

Your quote/response actually further validates my point. Not at all. As you say, Skywald couldn't afford the big names so they had to hire second and third stringers other talent from Latin America, none of which were as good as American 1st, second or third stringers.

 

I beg to differ on that last response, go flip through some Skywalds, there was some great artwork from these "2nd and 3rd stringers" that would rival some American artists. But I do realize the Skywalds had their share of dreck mixed in, nobody's perfect. I have flipped through 2 dozen Skywalds and I'm sorry, but I still don't see your point being valid You must actually LOOK at the pages!

Impact of Skywald - Again, I have to disagree with your comment of "In short, Skywald was around long enough to influence, showcase, and introduce a number of talented artists and writers thereby establishing themselves as one of the more memorable horror mags of the '70s"

 

Now I ask you why? As I said I stand by that statement and it is the reason I included the two #1 issues in my top 10. Innovatine horror stories (for their time), some of the best artists (American and Latin-American), Just the fact that Skywald could even compete with Warren for the few years it was published is amazing and shows it had legs for a while! The sole reason why Skywald was able to 'compete' with Warren was due to their low costs (production, artists, writers) As you mentioned, they couldn't pay as much as Warren so the Skywalds survived as long as they did because of the lower cost of producing their Mags. It would have truly been an interesting publishing environment had Skywald been able to compete with Warren on page rates for talent, but we'll never know what could have been. Again you're ignoring the wealth of diverse talent and the fact that they had a solid fan base so it was not the "sole" reason. It simply came down to larger publishers choking them out of the market.

Other than Byrne (who was already gaining recognition with his artistic contributions in CPL), which 'talented artist and writers' did Skywald introduce? And please don't say Marv Wolfman, because he was already get short story gigs at DC.

 

Technically speaking, that probably was it. Again, I really could care less about the Byrne notation myself but it's there. We will just have to agree to disagree I guess. I was old enough to pick these mags up off the stands as they came out. I loved them then and I love 'em now, that coupled with stories that were different and that covered Lovecraft, Edgar Allen Poe along with some beautiful artwork and great covers...they make my top 10.

Lovecraft and Poe were also covered by Warren, and Reed Crandall illustrated some phenominal adaptations thereof. Hands down Warren wins in this respect. Sorry to disagree with you again Never said Skywalds exclusively covered Lovecraft and Poe. And I'm a major fan of the Warren mags too! Just showing props to the Skywalds. The Skywalds (Nightmare, Psycho, and Scream) just had a different spin on telling horror tales that built up a fan base that has lasted decades whether you want to admit it or not. You either like them or you don't, you obviously don't which is your right. Your reasons are just faulty IMHO but to each their own.

[Fandango]

Hard to argue against this one. It's got longevity, cultural impact (THE premiere American humor mag of the 20th century), and remarkable stables of writers and artists all going for it. Only thing that blunts its' impact is that it was preceded by 23 comics of similar quality.

 

 

Speaking of longevity and cultural impact, other significant mags worth a mention include American Splendor, Heavy Metal and its French precursor Metal Hurlant.

[Cody_Starbuck]

I agree with a lot of the ones on this list - don't forget Savage Tales #1 - 1st mag without the comics code - hence the gratuitous nippelage.

 

I was under the impression that Creepy/Eerie predated Savage Tales and that Warren's magazines were not under the code. Or do you mean that Savage Tales was the first Marvel magazine without the code?

[Boba]

Yep that's what I meant - Marvel comic mag. When Savage Tales came out it blew our adolescent minds. Eerie, Creepy and even Vampirella, while risque didn't go the full monty like Savage Tales did by showing nipples.

[Boba]

lurker smoked by the skywalders

 

Hey, Bob-a-loo, sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm fairly busy during the week and will reply shortly. A few samples of the best of the best of Skywald is still a far cry from the best of the best of Warren artwork or EC mag artwork.

 

I think it's called "trolling"...

 

[Jayman]

Here's some terrible alcoholic artwork by Bill Everett from Nightmare #2. Man, he used to be so good!

 

[ArAich]

I'd give up a kidney for that OA...

[Cody_Starbuck]

Yep that's what I meant - Marvel comic mag. When Savage Tales came out it blew our adolescent minds. Eerie, Creepy and even Vampirella, while risque didn't go the full monty like Savage Tales did by showing nipples.

 

Thanks. I think the first comic I ever saw with nipples was Star*Reach #3, which had a Frank Brunner cover. I bought it at a flea market, of all places.

[Weird Paper]

Here's some terrible alcoholic artwork by Bill Everett from Nightmare #2. Man, he used to be so good!

 

 

You think that's terrible? Really? Really?

 

Everett could draw better drunk than 90% of his contemporaries (from any era). Hell, people love Wally Wood (me too) but his bad work looks like monkey butt. If THIS is Everett's "bad" work...

[Jayman]

You think that's terrible? Really? Really?

 

Everett could draw better drunk than 90% of his contemporaries (from any era). Hell, people love Wally Wood (me too) but his bad work looks like monkey butt. If THIS is Everett's "bad" work...

 

Not at all! I picked that as a shining example from Bill Everett!

Weird, that was my sarcastic reply towards jjonahjameson1's response that Everett's work in the 70's was "severly diminished due to alcoholism by the time he worked on Skywald." I guess if you haven't read some of the previous posts I can see it being taken out of context.

[Weird Paper]

Oops... my bad. I don't often visit this thread.

I'll beg forgiveness with this horrible example of Everett's art from the 70s

 

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. He is in very rare company as someone whose work never declined. It just got better and better.

Neal Adams can't make that claim, nor can Wrightson, Smith, Kaluta, Kirby, etc., etc.,...

 

 

[Jayman]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. He is in very rare company as someone whose work never declined. It just got better and better.

Neal Adams can't make that claim, nor can Wrightson, Smith, Kaluta, Kirby, etc., etc.,...

 

 

Agreed! (thumbs u

[Forbush-Man]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. He is in very rare company as someone whose work never declined. It just got better and better.

Neal Adams can't make that claim, nor can Wrightson, Smith, Kaluta, Kirby, etc., etc.,...

 

 

When did Smith's artwork ever decline?

[Weird Paper]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. He is in very rare company as someone whose work never declined. It just got better and better.

Neal Adams can't make that claim, nor can Wrightson, Smith, Kaluta, Kirby, etc., etc.,...

 

 

When did Smith's artwork ever decline?

 

I think he peaked with the last few Conans and Savage Tales. Look at the Valiant stuff and his self-published stuff. It really doesn't compare.

(Only my opinion, your results may vary)

[RedRaven]

Woohoo, the thread pumped some life back in here. The old dead horse can still kick! I've been avoiding posting in this topic until it got good and fermented! Nice to see some new faces dropping in even if they are bashing Skywald (god rest Al Hewetson).

 

More to come....

[RedRaven]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. He is in very rare company as someone whose work never declined. It just got better and better.

Neal Adams can't make that claim, nor can Wrightson, Smith, Kaluta, Kirby, etc., etc.,...

 

 

When did Smith's artwork ever decline?

 

Wrightsons burnout is duly noted but at least he left us with his magnum opus.

What exactly marked Kaluta's decline? I'm not familiar enough with his later work to make an estimation of it.

[Boba]

Kaluta, unlike the other 3 "Studio" members, continues to work in the industry, not just selling prints and tee-shirts of his work, and it is of the highest quality. In fact I think his work has actually grown in stature over the years.

[Weird Paper]

Maybe it was wrong to include Kaluta in that list. I still think he peaked with The Shadow, though.