Authenticity of signature series books

[Guest Grails]

Welcome Sharon, I greatly appreciate the books you two have done for me and I wish Chandler safe travels back home.

 

Charlie

[Comic Book Guy]

Sharon, Thanks for all of the information and for taking the time to respond. I have indeed stood next to you in line. It was at this years sdcc in line for Stan Lee, You actually witnessed my books. I have never had any doubts about Desert Wind or any other witness. One of the reasons I chose to use Hugh Jackman as an example was because we all know it's authentic and because it even had photos. When someone replied that signings needed approval, I asked if something like that was approved or needed approval, Clearly it's a legit signature and even without photos I wouldn't question a signature obtained by Chandler with his history of outstanding contributions. Again unlike with some of the replies, I have come to better understand many things from your post. Like the fact that as witnesses it is more about the love than the money and that most witnesses are collectors first not businessmen. I have collected other forms of autographed memorabilia and this was not the case most of the time. I have also learned in the past to ask questions or to express a concern as there is usually an answer and why sit with questions or doubt when the can be answered or put to rest. As a new collector that is all I was doing, not intending to offend or accuse.

[comicgrinder]

Well my first post. I stood up at the Board Dinner in Chicago, stated my name and said 'But you will never see me posting unless you make me mad'.

 

Well I am not mad so to speak but feel I must post.

 

SilverLurker, I wrote this before your last post. I am now editting it.

I now understand your comments and hope this sleds more light on what witnesses do and that there is indeed a process that we must follow.

 

Chandler and I work so hard at getting signatures for everyone on the board and our other clients. 90% of the books we get signed belong to other people so doesn't that make us independent witnesses? We even get our clients books signed in lieu of our own when there is a limit. Sure we charge a fee but trust me there is no profit in this business. Everyone in the hobby that has met us knows how hard we work and how devoted we are - AS they are too! Every single witness I have ever met gets my respect (even those of you do not like us for whatever reason). How hard the witnesses work does have a bearing on the authenticity of the signatures. If we were not getting real signatures, we would just stay home, drink beer, and buy more Sharpies.

 

We traveled 37,500 miles so far this year getting signatures and I can say I did no siteseeing, no spa treatments, and no shopping (I even missed getting my Betty Bob bobble head in SD) so you can't call these trips vacations. What I have done is stand in line countless hours, walk till I was limping, miss breakfast, lunch, and dinner, stay up to 3:00 am doing paperwork, cut my hands creating signing bags - well you witnesses know - you go through the same routine. Now I am not complaining. I am simply painting a picture so you can better understand what witnesses go through to get your books signed by the talent. We, as well as every witness I know, follow the rules and guidelines set down by CGC. We are in constant communication with Paul at CGC when we do private signings. We take pictures at our signings. Chandler being Chandler is always approaching talent for private signings and he is successfully 30% of the time.

 

I am surprised you questioned the Hugh Jackson signing when Chandler posted a picture on the boards clearly showing Hugh signing the book. Does someone not believe it was Hugh Jackman? He was wearing the very same shirt in his televised interview. Beside, instead of letting me meet Hugh Jackman, Chandler took Joel Elad, another CGC witness, with him to witness the signing so there would be no doubt (that's OK Joel, I don't blame you). And that signing wasn't by chance, Chandler worked two months to get that signing setup and he knew he would only be able to get one book signed.

 

Kevin, Pirate, Chainnball, CollectingStanLee thank you for posting as well. I know your words sled enlightment on the process. And CollectingStanLee you are right about buying off of eBay. I have priced one of your books as a gift for Chandler and I can't afford it!

 

SilverLurker, if you are truely curious and would like to know how it all works come join us in Dallas, Phoenix, New York, Orlando, or any of the 16 or more Comic Cons the witnesses attend and we will let you stand in line with us (that way we can get 3 more books signed!). I will introduce you to the countless number of talents I have come to know. I believe if you see the witesses in action you would feel more comfortable with the process and authenticity of signature series books.

 

Sharon RIce

Professional Place Line Holder for Desert Wind Comics

Hi sharon

[Joel Elad]

Sharon, I am not offended whatsoever. I would've been happier to let someone else run the ENTIRE LENGTH of the San Diego convention center and go upstairs in order to meet Hugh Jackman and watch Chandler get his signature. (But it was pretty cool)

 

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents into the equation. SilverLurker, I think part of the concern is this: For someone who is curious, you seem to paint a bleak scenario, provide pointed and specific replies, and want to get at all of the nitty-gritty details of the process, and it's possible, just possible, that someone who is trying to discredit the process would want to know everything about the system so they would know what to get around. Let me be clear, I am NOT saying that was your intention. But all the rest of us see is a detailed query from someone we are not familiar with, and just like you have to question all angles, I think some of us are allowed to question all angles. You say everything is great, but seem to fear the worst in the same query. I mean, what if "Independent Witness A" and "Independent Witness B" just witness each other's books, you get the same issue of trusting 1 or 2 people. When you deal with human beings, there's always a way to be nefarious if someone really wants to be.

 

There are a lot of things that CGC does to ensure the sanctity of the Signature Series, and there may or may not be things they simply cannot discuss to further ensure the veracity of the label. I am not going to discuss, theorize, or hint at those (and I hope nobody else here does either) because I don't want to give anyone else who could be casually reading these boards information that could hurt the process. As has already been said, you can speak in further detail to Kevin Boyd, Paul Litch, or other CGC employees if you have concerns.

 

To clear up a point you have made, when someone said that "you need approval to organize a signing" I believe that was in relation to public or private signings not being held at a convention where CGC is present.

 

In the end, if I am reading your initial post correctly, you say (and I am really boiling it down) "Hey, I love CGC, I think CGC is great, but how can we trust these witnesses that CGC has deputized to get signatures?" Well, there is a limited number of authorized witnesses at the moment, so in essence, you are publicly stating, "Hey, how can I trust a limited amount of pre-approved people who don't work for CGC?" You have every right to ask that question. But I have every right to feel offended by that comment because, even though it's "roundabout", as a part of this system, you are questioning me. (And you see by the other responses how other witnesses interpreted it) If it was a simple one paragraph, "Hey, guys, I just want to make sure the process is sound" I would see it as curiousity or concern. You obviously have a deep concern given your level of replies, in my opinion. But hey, I'm not questioning you, I'm just bringing up a point in response to your point, so don't feel offended back, ok? (This is my attempt to show that a deep criticism is not necessarily 'forgiven' by saying, 'Hey, don't take it personally.)

 

Hopefully your concerns have been answered, so I'll stop beating this dead horse. Unfortunately, other people have used public forums to surreptiously do things they shouldn't have done, and it ruins it for everyone else. (not just question the process, but trying to discredit other people, etc) And yes, when you look at sports autographs, and celebrity autographs, fraud is the #1 concern. But I honestly believe that CGC has put a lot in place to make sure the SS label is as authentic as possible.

 

Joel Elad

[Celestial Comics]

Hey guys, what's up? I got got back from traveling over 13,000 miles to the other side of the world (China). And what do I see when I get back, someone who is uninformed and clueless to the standards and requirements to the CGC Signature Series Program asking questions that has even gotten Sharon's panties in a bunch. So here I am to respond to this original posting. (pulling out soapbox to stand on, clearing throat and cracking knuckles).

 

SilverLurker, though your original question was a valid one and one that I think needs to be addressed from time to time, I think the manner and location inwhich you posted it was illadvised and not logically thought out. Persoanlly I think an e-mail to Paul Litch at CGC would have been more appropriate. I think you would have gotten the same answers to your questions from Paul without running the risk of upsetting people here on the boards. And more specifically Signature Witnesses, who are the very people that you question the honor of. I have read all of the postings and have seen all of the reactions. I think it was clear that you touched on a few nerves of people. My normal policy when reading postings on the boards is to let the information come out on its own. Though I could have deemed or taken your comments about the "Hugh Jackman" signature as well as the Stan Lee signings as a possible attack on my character and honor, I allowed fellow board members to respond in my defense. And I think that speaks volumes about my character and honor when other people are willing to step up for me and defend my honor to others. And to all of you fine people I thank you once again.

 

I don't think anyone who is in this hobby as a witness for CGC, who truly works in this hobby would question how hard BOTH Sharon and I work in this hobby. And allow me to make a point very clear, both Sharon and I work regular jobs during the week and because of how hard we work in those jobs, it allows us to be fortunate enough to travel as much as we do for our clients. As Sharon stated before, we have traveled over 37,000 miles this year alone to Comic-Cons and Private/public signings to service our clients. And we don't do it for money, because we are "LUCKY" if our expenses are even covered from such travel. And many times personal sacrifices must be made to enable us to travel as such. I just got through flying over 13,000 miles (which meant sittiing on a airplane for a total of 34 hours) while working 10 hour days for 8 days straight in a foreign city just so I can come back to getting ready to go to our final Comic-Con of the year. And add to that, the fact that 1 day prior to me leaving for China, we had traveled for 11 days to three different cities on the east coast, that covered 2 Comic-Cons and 2 Private Signings (which were previously sanctioned and authorized by CGC) in that time. So my point being is that we take this opportunity to service our clients very seriously.

 

Lurker, you are right to question the process, especially when many of the witnesses out there are getting mostly their own books signed and then selling them by whatever means they choose to sell them. But that too is how they "work" the hobby. Traveling to Comic-Cons can be expensive and costs need to be recovered to allow this travel to continue. While it is true that not all witnesses may get along with each other, there is still an understanding of cooperation and unity within this group of people who all work very hard for the same thing by the end of the day. To get that one book (or 100 books) signed by that one creator that they have been waiting all year (or in some cases several years) to get. We will help each other out in lines or however help may be given with the understanding that we are all doing the same thing. So weather it be theCollector, Pirate, or NYComics, we all work together to help make this specific part of the hobby a better place to work.

 

While questions raised about the "honor" system used by CGC in trusting it's witnesses with obtaining signature may be warrented or valid, consider the fact that if the Signature Witness Program was NOT in place, you would be left to unknown names on eBay or whatever means you would use to procure your books including an "unnamed" company that sells "signed" books for 10-20 times the price and all you get is a piece of paper from the owner who did not even see the book get signed stating the book was signed by so and so. I think everyone here recognizes the validity of CGC and its purpose in the hobby, I think we can say the same with the Witness Program. Until the human element can be removed and a better system can be designed, The CGC Signature Series Witness Program is the best option available to collectors in the hobby. If you do not have the faith in the intigrity of the program, then consider your other option. You can spend your hard earned money to travel over 37,000 miles to attend 12 Comic-Cons and/or private/public signings. And with that, I step down from my soap box and I will now go back to bed as my body clock is totally screwed up right now.

 

Chandler & Sharon Rice

Desert Wind Comics

 

p.s. why is it some people don't sign their "Real" names to postings and just hide behind a screen name? Is it because they don't want others to know who it is talking about others? Just makes me go hmmmm.

[SignatureSelect]

Well I must say I am angered by this accusation. Silver Lurker, I think you might want to buy raw books in the future. You might want to also get you own signatures. So you can make sure they are real. But only you will know they are real. You will be questioned by others like yourself. Then when you sell them they will go for a fraction of what they are worth. The will have no validity. Meanwhile, Signature Series will continue to grow and prosper. Witnesses will work with each other. Those who understand will trust in the program. Money will be made, people will be happy, and the autographs will still be real.

 

Thank you,

 

Kris Moore AKA the collector

[Kevin Boyd]

Thanks Sharon, Joel and Chandler - as well as Kris and Anthony - for further elaborating on the process and your feelings about Signature Series.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that the Witnesses in the program possess two things in great abundance (1) love of comics and (2) heart. Sometimes we wear our hearts on our sleeves and take offense at anyone questioning the process that our Witnesses work very hard to follow and honor. Sometimes that can't be avoided, as we are all connected.

 

However, it is understandable that, as with all things that have complicated rules and guidelines, those outside of the circle are often confused and don't "get it" or they see a clique or club they are not a member of and don't like it. There are a lot of people that still, after 6+ years of Signature Series "don't get it".

 

The more passionate among us get offended by that, please try not to be. I know you are reacting with your passion... your heart... but there are always going to be people with doubts, concerns and criticisms.

 

This is why we have a devoted message board on this site and a number of Q&A and information related posts on Signature Series. We want the process to be understandable - how one would go about getting a Signature Series book for their collection should not be a mystery.

 

Since the original concerns were asked and addressed I see no reason to keep this open.