PayPal Cheapskates

[Guest]

 

Anybody care to defend or comment on the crowd of sellers that advertises PayPal acceptance in their auctions only to note in the small print that they will only accept checking account transactions?

 

There is also of course the body of sellers that notes that you need to e-mail before bidding if you plan to use PayPal so they can try and rip you off with a surcharge.

 

I know PayPal has policies that deal with this yet you still see it often enough to wonder. What goes on in a persons head that has them advertise acceptance to gain market share and then get cheap on paying the fees liek all the rest of us.

 

Here was my latest case: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2205388882&category=32739&rd=1

[murph0]

Yeh it sucks but you gotta do what you gotta do if you want the book. On the occasion that I have an auction, I don't even allow people to use Paypal anymore. You'd be surprised at the number of people I've had who've expected to use Paypal despite me not offering it as an option

It could generate fewer bids, but I can't stand Paypal.. and it's my book so I can sell it whatever way I want.

 

Brian

[Mephisto]

I only used to accept PP if using a checking account. I didn't hide the fact. I never advertised I took PP with any of those big banners especially any that say I take any of the major CC's. I mentioned it in my auctions very clearly and in emails after the auction was over...yet people would still send payment via a CC. I didn't sell enough stuff to warrant upgrading. There were days on ebay when there was no such thing as PP.

[joe_collector]

What goes on in a persons head that has them advertise acceptance to gain market share and then get cheap on paying the fees liek all the rest of us.

 

There are two categories:

 

1) Cheapskate Pinheads. Those who advertise Paypal to get the hits and higher bids, but then foist over the "cost of doing Credit Card business" to the buyers. It's the old "have your cake and eat it too", and these sellers are the lowest of the low.

 

When I sell, I pay the fees because it's a proven fact that allowing credit cards increases your end sale amount quite significantly, and take it in stride. If I don't feel like taking the hit, I always have the option of not carrying CC's, instead of breaking the Paypal and EBay user agreement by foisting business fees to the consumer.

 

2) Bank Account-Only Sellers. This is more of a gray area, and although it's something I despise, it comes down to doing something on the EBay system to halt this practice. It's sad to see an auction listing Paypal, with the Credit Card logos, and then you read the tiny print and see they only allow bank account transfers. This is a HUGE loop-hole in the EBay system, and something has to be done to stop the basic logo from appearing if they don't actually accept the items shown.

 

Personally speaking, I don't feel that those accepting ONLY bank account transfers should qualify as a Paypal auction, as per the EBay listing, search and credit card logo guidelines.

 

Of course, those who accept only Bank Account transfers and DO NOT use the Credit Card Logos to fake-out buyers are cool, but most take the unethical route and promote services they do not accept.

[murph0]

Exactly. I can remember when you sold a couple hundred books and Paypal was not an option. People ACTUALLY found other ways to pay.. GASP!!!

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

Exactly. I can remember when you sold a couple hundred books and Paypal was not an option. People ACTUALLY found other ways to pay.. GASP!!!

 

Sure Murph, and I bet you ride a horse and carriage to work, type your messages on a word processor, and cook all your meals over a pit fire?

[Mephisto]

Exactly. I can remember when you sold a couple hundred books and Paypal was not an option. People ACTUALLY found other ways to pay.. GASP!!!

 

I was just trying to point out that there still are other ways of paying even if they are slower. I don't use PP anymore at all whether buying or selling. I haven't sold anything at auction in a long time but have sold stuff privately. If someone is not comfortable not using PP that's fine, they don't have to purchase the book. The main reason I don't have an account any longer is because I didn't want to accounts available to be hijacked as I have heard of happening and peoples accounts being cleaned out. But lately I have seen many posts about PP not offering the protection promised and charge backs with CC's and other assorted garbage. It seems that from some of the stories I have heard you may have a better chance of having something done if using postal money orders if someone takes payment and non delivers the goods than you do if using PP.

 

 

[murph0]

Yep, back in 1999 I did all that. Do you live and die by your line of credit?

 

Brian

[Mephisto]

I can't believe the posts I have seen about people receiving a message from PP 2 months after an item was sent out that the CC used was stolen and then PP takes the money back out of your account. You are left with no money and no book.

[supapimp]

3% for domestic & 5% for CC international transaction adds up especially in big $$$ transactions. payment via checking account is free.

[joe_collector]

Yep, back in 1999 I did all that. Do you live and die by your line of credit?

 

You have no idea on what it's like to be an International bidder and have to jump through hoops for money orders, receive irate emails stating their bank charged service fees to cash (even though it was drawn in Chase Manhatten), and basically stress out just to buy a stupid comic book.

 

In fact, before Paypal, I used to just mail concealed USD cash, since it was much less hassle, though a tad more risky.

 

Now I don't even look at an auction that doesn't accept Paypal CC's (my account cannot transfer funds), and find it just as useful and time-saving as other technological advances such as the automobile, the computer and the microwave.

 

I'm no fan of Paypal as a company, but I do like how easy it makes the process of buying and selling online.

[joe_collector]

3% for domestic & 5% for CC international transaction adds up especially in big $$$ transactions. payment via checking account is free.

 

But that's using the "glass half empty" outlook.

 

I've tracked just about every CGC Byrne X-Men auction ever, and one week, some guy (with excellent feedback) listed a pile of 9.4's (with only check/MO and Paypal bank transfers) and got about $31-$36 a piece.

 

That same week, another seller (a Canuck at that) listed many of the same books in 9.4 (with Paypal CC's), and received bids of $60-$80 a piece.

 

This is by no means an isolated incident, and there is no question that allowing CC's pays for itself many times over. I even did an experiment when I sold a few lots, and went from selling Zero (check/MO) to a 1-2 (Check/MO/PP Bank), to ALL (20+) with Paypal CC's as an option.

 

Granted there are some things to watch out for, such as selling a high-dollar book like ASM #1 CGC 9.6 using Paypal, but there is no way that transaction fees are even a factor.

[COI]

You have no idea on what it's like to be an International bidder and have to jump through hoops for money orders, receive irate emails stating their bank charged service fees to cash (even though it was drawn in Chase Manhatten), and basically stress out just to buy a stupid comic book.

 

No kidding. And on the selling side, Paypal has been a godsend. I will enthusiastically eat the charges inorder to save the time and hassle of cashing M.O's(which aren't even cashable half the time, even though you explicitly state the kind of M.O the buyer needs to send). And with the debit card, I haven't had the need to attach my Bank account to my Paypal business account, so I feel safer in that regard also.

[joe_collector]

I gotta add here, that any potential issues with Paypal pale in the face of the insane level of shipping profiteering on EBay.

 

I recently bought a small item from a guy in Hamilton, and he's looking for $12 USD to ship it to me. Yeah, not this lifetime nitwit, and since it's on my "throw-away" account, he's walking mighty close to a serious Neg.

 

At some point EBay has to step in, or their profits will drop due to hordes of dissatisfied buyers leaving the ship.

[Mephisto]

At some point EBay has to step in, or their profits will drop due to hordes of dissatisfied buyers leaving the ship.

 

Their help line when my account was hijacked was very poor, and I was even a powerseller at the time. Since then I have had more transaction privatey then on ebay. A few items I found on ebay but were purchased privately and ebay at best got a listing fee from the seller.

[joe_collector]

A few items I found on ebay but were purchased privately and ebay at best got a listing fee from the seller.

 

Join the club. If I buy some prime books on EBay, you can be certain I'll be emailing the seller for a much bigger deal offline.

 

My EBay deals (other than for some cards for Xmas) have dropped to almost nil, and I'm working lots of offline deals now.

[Guest]

Joe has mad many good points. Aside from the fact that PayPal probably pays for itself many times over with added bids ( I don't bid on non PayPal items, at least not knowingly), A SINGLE INCREMENTAL BID can add as much as 2 1/2% to the current high bid. That is assuming that the current bid is the bidders max bid. If a bidder is showing 20 with a max bid of 25 and I bid 30, it goes up to 25.50. That is a 25% incease. If I won't bid because of no PayPal, maybe 20 is the closing price. The seller is chasing a away buyers for 60 cents. SIXTY CENTS!! Are those trying to call PayPal expensive listening?

 

Now figure this in: Let's say somebody wins a $500 auction. We have PayPal fees of $15. A money order will cost 2-3 bucks to purchase. It will be a 10-15 mile round trip, costing another 1.50 in gas. Finally it will take at least half an hour maybe one hour. What is your time worth? Minimum wage is about $6 an hour.

 

On top of all this what happens if the goods end up beinga rip off or we get nothing at all. If you pay by MO, you are square out of luck.

 

You can argue that PayPal does nothing. I will tell you PayPal has nothing to do with it. You need to call your credit card company and they deal with it. If you get ripped off and nothing is sent, you will get your money back. Where you run into problems is when you try to use PayPal as leverage to improve your deal. You get a book at half what it is stated, in terms of worth. You try to charge it back, thinking you will then send back half the money. Doesn't work that way. You need to send the item back. After that, if you do not receive a refund the CC company will handle it.

 

As far as identity theft; GET REAL! There is a greater likelyhood that the waiter at your favorite restaurant steals your CC number than it gets stolen using PayPal. I have never heard of a legitimate story of a stolen CC number on PayPal where the buyer did not somehow communicate the CC number to the buyer.

 

I had one incident of theft on EBay with a credit card. That was giving the number directly to the buyer, a retailer supposedly, who promptly bought $2000 worth of money orders on BidPay. My credit card company immediatly charged these back, crediting my account. Of course I was using Citibank.Perhaps those PayPal cheapskates having problems with account number theft are also cheapskates with their credit card provider,

 

But I digress...the seller then gets the MO and does all of the reverse. The MO used to save $15 in fees now cost $20 in real money and probably $50 in time.

 

Oh, and of course we get the natural week long wait, waiting for the seller to get the MO and cash it before sending. Ok so now we have seen the paper trail of an MO.

 

Now we have PayPal, I buy, I win. I go to PayPal and log in. Ten seconds later I am at the Ebay winning's page. I hit the auction and IT IS DONE! Comprende? The book can now be sent the next day.

 

But then again, the seller did save $15.....

 

BTW, the math works the same for a $10 book. The lower the price the more outrageous the cost of a money order. This does not take into account the aforementioned S&H ripoff sheme that is the real rip-off of teh eBay system.

 

As a final note, aside form the obvious above: My original note was not an argument for or against PayPal. It was directed at auctions that DID ADVERTISE PAYPAL AS AN OPTION. If you are stupid enough not to offer PayPal as an option that is your business. You can have the limited number of available bidders all to yourself.

[murph0]

Interesting theory that you can get higher prices if you allow people to use Paypal freely. So theoretically it'd be next to impossible to sell my Hulk 181, unless I offered free use of Paypal? Weird, cause it sold for 3,000 dollars which is one of only 2 or 3 copies that has ever broken the 3,000 dollar barrier for that book.

 

Brian

[Guest]

Interesting theory that you can get higher prices if you allow people to use Paypal freely. So theoretically it'd be next to impossible to sell my Hulk 181, unless I offered free use of Paypal? Weird, cause it sold for 3,000 dollars which is one of only 2 or 3 copies that has ever broken the 3,000 dollar barrier for that book.

 

Brian

Brian-

 

1) Were you advertising the use of PayPal on your auction? If not the main point of my original post does not apply.

 

2) In any case the answer is yes. Sellers will get more bids and higher bids with PayPal. (Joe gave us real life examples)You can use an oddball example like Hulk 181 and that does not change the basic viability of PayPal. I'll add this: Unless I know you, I am not sending you a check, MO or wiring $3000 to you without recourse in the case you turn out to be a scam artist, which I am not saying you are. For every example , like this, that you point out, I can show you dozens of items throughout eBay that are simalarly priced that do accept Paypal routinely.

 

Lest you think eBay is run by , do you think they would have spent hundreds of millions to buy PayPal if it didn't improve sales on Ebay while ditchingtheir own payment system??

[murph0]

Lest you think eBay is run by , do you think they would have spent hundreds of millions to buy PayPal if it didn't improve sales on Ebay while ditchingtheir own payment system??

 

Dunno, someone was ingenius enough to buy excite.com for multi-millions and look where that got them.

 

Anyways, I didn't advertise it. It was offered at a 3 percent charge to the buyer. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, however, I am fairly annoyed that you have basically called me a "insufficiently_thoughtful_person" b/c I choose not to use Paypal in my auctions. Which isn't the case IMO as I've gotten just as much, if not more, as Paypal-accepting counterparts.

 

Brian