PayPal Cheapskates

[Mephisto]

Wow 2-3 bucks for a MO. I usually only pay about 90 cents for one. And I guess I'm lucky cause round trip to the post office for me is less than 2 miles. And If i go to the one near work again it's less than 2 miles round trip.

[Guest]

Lest you think eBay is run by , do you think they would have spent hundreds of millions to buy PayPal if it didn't improve sales on Ebay while ditchingtheir own payment system??

 

Dunno, someone was ingenius enough to buy excite.com for multi-millions and look where that got them.

 

Anyways, I didn't advertise it. It was offered at a 3 percent charge to the buyer. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, however, I am fairly annoyed that you have basically called me a "insufficiently_thoughtful_person" b/c I choose not to use Paypal in my auctions. Which isn't the case IMO as I've gotten just as much, if not more, as Paypal-accepting counterparts.

 

Brian

 

First I never called you a insufficiently_thoughtful_person. I asked if you thought the people at eBay were . Incidentally, excite dotcom never made money, Ebay has always been profitable and was on eof the few blowout winners of the internet bubble.

 

I did say if you are stupid enough not to take PayPal, that is your business. That was not a personal comment, rather a figure of speech. Unless you compare auctions side by side like Joe did, you'll never know whether you would have gotten a higher bid....will you?

 

I spend good money on Ebay for comics. If you are not getting me, and others like me, to look at your auctions, I suggest you are losing potentially higher bids.

 

Incidentally, I beieve it is very much against PayPal rules of conduct to assess a buyer for the 3% PayPal fee, whether advertised as such or not. I may be wrong.

[murph0]

It probably is against Paypals code of conduct to do that. I haven't used them in months, so wouldn't know. And Excite.com DID make money, when they were sold to that online greeting cards company.

For me Paypal is a major hastle, not only do I lose 3 percent (when I do sell, which is few and far between). But then I have to figure out how I'm going to get the money. I will NOT link a savings/checking account to Paypal as I simply don't trust them with that access. I'm not paying them 1.50 so they can see how slowly they can mail me a money order for MY money. And I'm DEFINATELY not getting a Paypal Debit/CC.

I can live without the extra bids that may or may not have come with accepting Paypal. It definately makes my life easier..

Speaking of you bidding, have you stopped buying ASM books? I recall back in '00 or so I'd end up bidding against you a lot for S.A. ASMs.. than you just kinda disapeared. :\

 

Brian

[Guest]

It probably is against Paypals code of conduct to do that. I haven't used them in months, so wouldn't know. And Excite.com DID make money, when they were sold to that online greeting cards company.

For me Paypal is a major hastle, not only do I lose 3 percent (when I do sell, which is few and far between). But then I have to figure out how I'm going to get the money. I will NOT link a savings/checking account to Paypal as I simply don't trust them with that access. I'm not paying them 1.50 so they can see how slowly they can mail me a money order for MY money. And I'm DEFINATELY not getting a Paypal Debit/CC.

I can live without the extra bids that may or may not have come with accepting Paypal. It definately makes my life easier..

Speaking of you bidding, have you stopped buying ASM books? I recall back in '00 or so I'd end up bidding against you a lot for S.A. ASMs.. than you just kinda disapeared. :\

 

Brian

 

Hi Brian-

 

Every point you made is legitmate and is a reason you may not want to use PayPal. I have used it linked to my account with no problems. This is a matter of preference. I can't argue the merits of that.

 

So far as ASM, I completed the initial goal of completing the AF15 and ASM 1-200 in or very close to investment grade. Fortunately or unfortunately, I missed a goodly number in 9.4, either because they didn't grade out or were to expensive to buy graded.

 

I have become quite involved in collecting 30 cent and 35 cent varaints published by Marvel in 1976 and 1977. However, just today I bought an ASM 56 in CGC 9.4 completimng the Doc Ock Run 53-56, all in CGC 9.4. You will probably see me going after a few books in the not too distant future, mostly in very high grade, 9.4.

 

The prices seem to have come off at least a bit and I think I can safely go after a few more. Unfortunatley, or maybe not, I not only have a complete run of ASM but two. I really need to sell some off before I accumulate a third.

[comicmankev]

You know what I just found out?

 

That UK sellers can charge for taking paypal, and it's all above board?

 

I'm a UK seller and would never think of charging for it. But it really annoys me when people do this sort of thing. If you not gonna take the hit, then why do it at all, take a cheque?

[joe_collector]

Interesting theory that you can get higher prices if you allow people to use Paypal freely. So theoretically it'd be next to impossible to sell my Hulk 181, unless I offered free use of Paypal? Weird, cause it sold for 3,000 dollars which is one of only 2 or 3 copies that has ever broken the 3,000 dollar barrier for that book.

 

How come when anyone brings up an example, it's got to be Hulk 181? That book defies reality in what sappers will do to get a copy.

 

Try the same thing with a large listing of far-less speculator-driven books, and then re-list similar dupes with Paypal as an option. I guarantee you'll see a noticeable difference in ending bid prices.

[delekkerste]

Anybody care to defend or comment on the crowd of sellers that advertises PayPal acceptance in their auctions only to note in the small print that they will only accept checking account transactions?

 

On the limited occasions that I sell items on eBay, I require that people using PayPal use an Instant Transfer. I state this requirement in big, black, bold letters at the beginning of each listing. I do not "advertise" that I accept PayPal with the credit card logos shown - PayPal puts that on automatically even if you have a Personal Account, like I do, and do not accept credit cards.

 

Whether or not this costs me a higher bid to me is irrelevant to me. I simply don't care. There is no "grey" area ethically about it whatsoever. I am not morally obligated to offer PayPal services to buyers. Unlike with the prohibition on charging a PayPal surcharge, there are no laws against not accepting PayPal credit card payments. If PayPal wants to change the rules and do away with the Personal Accounts or charge fees on all transactions, then I'll play ball (however, such a move would probably be illegal/unethical on eBay's part - I bet the FTC wrote the maintenance of free Personal accounts into the conditions of approving eBay's acquisition of PayPal). If anything is unethical, it's PayPal slapping those credit card logos onto transactions to cause confusion and chaos for Personal account users who occasionally sell in order to get them to sign up for a Business account.

 

In sum:

 

1. I don't care.

2. It's not illegal or unethical.

3. The right to use PayPal credit card payments is not written in the Bible, Magna Carta, Rosetta Stone or the constitution of any country that I am aware of.

4. You should be blaming eBay/PayPal for their questionable logo placement practices instead.

 

Gene

[comicmankev]

You can turn the paypal logo off in 'My Ebay'

[drbanner]

Interesting theory that you can get higher prices if you allow people to use Paypal freely. So theoretically it'd be next to impossible to sell my Hulk 181, unless I offered free use of Paypal? Weird, cause it sold for 3,000 dollars which is one of only 2 or 3 copies that has ever broken the 3,000 dollar barrier for that book.

 

How come when anyone brings up an example, it's got to be Hulk 181? That book defies reality in what sappers will do to get a copy.

 

Try the same thing with a large listing of far-less speculator-driven books, and then re-list similar dupes with Paypal as an option. I guarantee you'll see a noticeable difference in ending bid prices.

 

Normally, I would disagree with Joe, except that in this case I agree with him. If you think that the increase in bids you get by offering PP doesn't cover the PP fees, you're not seeing the forest for the trees. And that's not even putting a $ value on the time involved in sending/receiving a hard copy payment (check/MO)...going to the bank, waiting for the payment to clear, etc.,.

 

Buyers get a degree of protection using Paypal, they don't have to lay out the cash upfront, they also save the time (and time is $$) it would take to get a MO or send off a check, etc.,. Hmmm, now that I think of it, I believe there was Poll here a while back dealing with whether or not offering PP resulted in higher bids...although I'm not sure how you could "prove" it?

[Fan4Fan]

You'd be surprised at the number of people I've had who've expected to use Paypal despite me not offering it as an option

It could generate fewer bids, but I can't stand Paypal.. and it's my book so I can sell it whatever way I want.

 

Yeah... got a positive feedback with a comment about how I didn't accept PayPal.

 

Lessee.... I list what I do accept for payment (PayPal is not mentioned at all in my ad), the winner pays with a money order, and the item is as described... so why mention it in the feedback that I don't accept PayPal?

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

 

[joe_collector]

although I'm not sure how you could "prove" it?

 

Well I don't know if I "proved" it or not, but before I got a Paypal account, I did list and relist 20+ auctions three different times. Not super high-demand stuff, just mid to high-grade Bronze:

 

1) Check/MO - No Sales!

 

2) Check/MO/Paypal Personal Bank Transfers - 2 Sales

 

3) Check/MO/Paypal Credit Cards - 100% Sold - All Paypal BTW

 

After that, I was a definite Paypal advocate for selling, and although I don't sell much, I have had a 100% sell-through rate since I started allowing Paypal CC as an option.

[Shield]

Hey Gemworks...I think it's quite clear that offering Paypal as a payment option boosts final auction values.

 

However, you do realize the "No quality guarantee" Paypal fails to tell people. For example, I sell you a Pep Comics #17 as a Fine, and send you a Good minus. You're out of luck, because if you call Paypal, they'd tell you "We cannot guarantee the quality of merchandise". "It's because we weren't there to see you open the item, so it's your word against the sellers". Hell, all I'd have to do is send you a box of newspaper shreddings and use delivery confirmation with signature, then there's nothing you could do about it. If you try to do a chargeback, Paypal will suspend your account AFTER trying to pull the funds from your backup source, which you need to have in order to be "Verified" in the first place.

 

Thoughts? It's happened to me first hand.

 

Also, visit www.paypalsucks.com for some good reading!

[joe_collector]

However, you do realize the "No quality guarantee" Paypal fails to tell people. For example, I sell you a Pep Comics #17 as a Fine, and send you a Good minus. You're out of luck, because if you call Paypal, they'd tell you "We cannot guarantee the quality of merchandise".

 

So what do you do when you send a Money Order and receive an over-graded comic?

[Shield]

However, you do realize the "No quality guarantee" Paypal fails to tell people. For example, I sell you a Pep Comics #17 as a Fine, and send you a Good minus. You're out of luck, because if you call Paypal, they'd tell you "We cannot guarantee the quality of merchandise".

 

So what do you do when you send a Money Order and receive an over-graded comic?

 

I'll call my bank, and they'll fight for me, and issue me a credit. Doesn't yours?

[joe_collector]

I'll call my bank, and they'll fight for me, and issue me a credit. Doesn't yours?

 

For an over-graded comic book, assuming the seller has tracking and proof of delivery??? I couldn't even imagine what I'd say to my client rep.

 

For outright theft or non-delivery? Likely.

[Darthdiesel]

Let me first say that I normally don't read SIlver Forum posts, but Glenn pointed me this way. His rant is a normal reaction from what I've read and I went through the rest of this thread. Let's see what I can share, since Glenn asked me to...

 

I've read all the paypal horror stories from forumites and on that pypalsucks website.

 

Because of bugaboo, I now use both methods of paypal available. I accept credit cards with my first paypal acct and I set up a personal account to accept checking acct funds or balance transfers only. They are both linked to a checking account that I can withdraw my funds too. but it is NOT my main checking acct. It is a business acct I set up only for dealing with comics purchases. I also have a Paypal debit card linked to that so I can spend whatever I make and keep it isolated from my other income and family savings. I am not as leery as most about paypal and what could happen because if the worst did happen with my paypal accounts (ie. hacked) then it would not be so bad. I checked with my bank and expressed concern about chargebacks due to stolen credit cards, and they said would fight for my case to prevent paypal from digging into my accounts for it without a release from me.

 

I don't ask people to cover my paypal credit card charges ever. I ask them however to use the personal acct if they have a balance they can transfer or if they have a checking acct linked paypal that they use. Why get charged for using paypal when you don't need to? Obviously I prefer not getting hit with fees, but if you can only pay using a credit card funded paypal account so be it. I just make all types of payment available to the customer. This, IMO, is what increases traffic to my auctions...this and all the spam I send to ebay second high bidders on the bidding history lists

 

When making deals here on the forum WITH PEOPLE I KNOW, I usually go with the personal check or personal paypal account. I usually ship efven before the check arrives because I'm trusting like that with people I have a history with. If I don't know you, then I go with more conventional payment procedures and wait times.

 

On ebay auctions, my paypal logos are linked to the credit card accepting account, BUT my payment instructions gives both options.

 

It does hurt to get all these darn fees eating into your profit but it is all the cost of doing business for me and is written off in taxes.

 

I don't support the surcharge business and usually don't buy from those sellers UNLESS they have another method of payment available and I REALLY want a book they have. (High Grade Price variants anyone? fortunately most sellers of these do not fall into the paypal "cheapskate" category)

[murph0]

For an over-graded comic book, assuming the seller has tracking and proof of delivery??? I couldn't even imagine what I'd say to my client rep.

 

For outright theft or non-delivery? Likely.

 

Before you totally write this off like everything else you don't agree with. Maybe you should call your bank and check? Money orders that I've sent from my bank have been fully backed by my bank as far as whether or not they'd go after someone who took me for a loop or provided inadequate merchandise.

Case in point, bought an ASM 42 described NM w/ delivery confirmation. Came as a VG/F, was purchased with a money order. Couldn't get a response from the seller, so I called the bank. They said "no problem, we'll take care of it. Give us a couple days". 3 days later, they call "your account has been credited for the money order". Very pleasant experience considering how unpleasant buying from that seller was

 

Brian

[Guest]

Hey Gemworks...I think it's quite clear that offering Paypal as a payment option boosts final auction values.

 

However, you do realize the "No quality guarantee" Paypal fails to tell people. For example, I sell you a Pep Comics #17 as a Fine, and send you a Good minus. You're out of luck, because if you call Paypal, they'd tell you "We cannot guarantee the quality of merchandise". "It's because we weren't there to see you open the item, so it's your word against the sellers". Hell, all I'd have to do is send you a box of newspaper shreddings and use delivery confirmation with signature, then there's nothing you could do about it. If you try to do a chargeback, Paypal will suspend your account AFTER trying to pull the funds from your backup source, which you need to have in order to be "Verified" in the first place.

 

Thoughts? It's happened to me first hand.

 

Also, visit www.paypalsucks.com for some good reading!

 

 

Thanks Darth for offering your thoughts. That is the most elaborate set-up that I have seen and makes me think I ought to set up a similar network of accounts.

 

As far as help on misrepresnted items. My bank seems to have a rule: If you get misrepresented merchandise, you need to send it back. PayPal itself seems to be useless as they are the middleman.The bank is the only way to make claims of fraud or mis-representation.

 

I should say I currently use Banc One versus Citibank who I had before. Citibank used to give credit first and ask questions later. Banc One is not as good. I plan on going back to Citi for a new credit card.

 

Essentially, it is this guarantee of performance that makes Credit Card transactions more useful. Not to mention I get 1-2% of point value when I use the card.

 

 

 

 

[OldGuy]

Let me first say that I normally don't read SIlver Forum posts....

 

Damn modern elitist.

[CosmicBob]

When making deals here on the forum WITH PEOPLE I KNOW, I usually go with the personal check or personal paypal account. I usually ship efven before the check arrives because I'm trusting like that with people I have a history with. If I don't know you, then I go with more conventional payment procedures and wait times.

 

He does, you know. I've gotten stuff before he could possibly have gotten the check. Darth is a great seller.