• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Rocky Mountain now a ped

Started by MutantKeys,

120 posts in this topic

jokersrevenge

jokersrevenge

Posted
Posted
Those RM Batman's are degorgeous!! I guess if you sell off the commons first, it will bring in more money for the keys.....

 

:gossip: they're all common

agreed.... but some are not quite so common... just because they haven't been submitted.. take Batman 380 for example.... 2 subs resulting in two 9.6's...

Makes it hard to finish a run with numbers like that..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
COMICLINK

COMICLINK

Posted
Posted
:( Seahawks game is a joke but that was to be expected so...

 

Any good info on this pedigree ?

 

Who is bringing this collection to the market ?

 

What keys have been up for sale ?

 

Are all the Bats/Tecs in the Clink auction new to the market ?

 

What else is left ?

 

The Rocky Mountain Bats, Detectives and Daredevils in the ComicLink Featured Auction are completely new to the market (just slabbed, first auction sold).

 

Josh

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DarkKnightReturns

DarkKnightReturns

Posted
Posted
:( Seahawks game is a joke but that was to be expected so...

 

Any good info on this pedigree ?

 

Who is bringing this collection to the market ?

 

What keys have been up for sale ?

 

Are all the Bats/Tecs in the Clink auction new to the market ?

 

What else is left ?

 

The Rocky Mountain Bats, Detectives and Daredevils in the ComicLink Featured Auction are completely new to the market (just slabbed, first auction sold).

 

Josh

Thanks Josh. Any input on the other questions ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
I am pleased to see this pedigree. "Why?", you may ask?

 

Because a Pedigree should not be about $$$. It should simply be about provenance. Something of the history of a book.

 

...

 

Let the collector determine the "value" but also let the collectors know that this book was originally collected by So And So. Provenance is an important aspect of any collectible. Simply to know about it.

 

...

 

To my mind any SA collection of size, accumulated by one collector from the original retail source is worthy of a "pedigree". They do not even have to contain many keys. They should just be a reflection of a particular, known, collector's interests and accumulation.

I disagree with you on a lot of this, because I think big OO collections of SA Marvels are not particularly unique if grade is not an issue, and if there are tons of OO collections of any-grade SA books, I can't see anything particularly worthy of celebration in terms of knowing the provenance. By your logic, we should also be celebrating all the OO collections of 80s and 90s comics too, MANY of which are HG, and there would probably be 200 pedigrees from board members alone.

 

But setting that issue aside for the moment, I'm still not sure what we're celebrating about this particular pedigree. You'll have to refresh my memory, what exactly is it that we know about the provenance of this pedigree, or about "So And So" who put it together, other than that it was assembled by one collector and supposedly there are pictures to prove it?

 

As far as I can tell, at this point all we know about this collection is that it was assembled by one person, and has lots of really high grade books from the mid- and late-1960s. Where's the human element again?

 

Hey Tim just saw thins post, now two years later whatta ya think, probably the same. For me, I love the Peds, but the CGC Pedigree designation has been for sale for some time now, that's the main reason that the RMs got a spot on the label. Now I haven't really weighed in on the RMs one way or another, I prefer the established Pedigrees, heck I love the Green Rivers because of the original owner off the news stand provenance. Of course I see Pov's argument as well and the RMs are allegedly OOs, well then so are the Toth's. I think your and my greatest issue is the CGC designation is not consistent and is motivated by submission dollars. 2c

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
I think your and my greatest issue is the CGC designation is not consistent and is motivated by submission dollars. 2c

 

This collection would have been slabbed whether it was given a Pedigree designation or not so I'm not sure how it is motivated by submission dollars.

 

(shrug)

 

The collection was brought to market by Comiclink and they sell slabbed books. There was no chance of leaving the collection raw as far as I can tell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
markseifert

markseifert

Posted
Posted
I am pleased to see this pedigree. "Why?", you may ask?

 

Because a Pedigree should not be about $$$. It should simply be about provenance. Something of the history of a book.

 

...

 

Let the collector determine the "value" but also let the collectors know that this book was originally collected by So And So. Provenance is an important aspect of any collectible. Simply to know about it.

 

...

 

To my mind any SA collection of size, accumulated by one collector from the original retail source is worthy of a "pedigree". They do not even have to contain many keys. They should just be a reflection of a particular, known, collector's interests and accumulation.

I disagree with you on a lot of this, because I think big OO collections of SA Marvels are not particularly unique if grade is not an issue, and if there are tons of OO collections of any-grade SA books, I can't see anything particularly worthy of celebration in terms of knowing the provenance. By your logic, we should also be celebrating all the OO collections of 80s and 90s comics too, MANY of which are HG, and there would probably be 200 pedigrees from board members alone.

 

But setting that issue aside for the moment, I'm still not sure what we're celebrating about this particular pedigree. You'll have to refresh my memory, what exactly is it that we know about the provenance of this pedigree, or about "So And So" who put it together, other than that it was assembled by one collector and supposedly there are pictures to prove it?

 

As far as I can tell, at this point all we know about this collection is that it was assembled by one person, and has lots of really high grade books from the mid- and late-1960s. Where's the human element again?

 

I think povertyrow is correct here. Knowledge of provenance has significant value apart from whether the collection is considered worth being celebrated. The methodology of doing that right now is a separate issue, and it's one that will work itself out over time. We are steadily moving towards making more and more info about a given book available to the collector, and that's good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
I think your and my greatest issue is the CGC designation is not consistent and is motivated by submission dollars. 2c

 

This collection would have been slabbed whether it was given a Pedigree designation or not so I'm not sure how it is motivated by submission dollars.

 

(shrug)

 

The collection was brought to market by Comiclink and they sell slabbed books. There was no chance of leaving the collection raw as far as I can tell.

 

Well I also think that CGC has hurt lent credence to the label is for sale designation with the Wizard First and some collection / pedigree / we aren't sure which is which designations (MH2) (Don Rosa). The pedigree criteria policies have not exactly shown consistency in terms of recognition protocol. CGC sort of inherited this mantel, still if they are to place recognition on the books provenance on their label then it might also be apt for them to establish the elements that need to be satisfied to garner that designation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
Hey Tim just saw thins post, now two years later whatta ya think, probably the same.

Hey Jason! My opinion hasn't changed. RMs are lovely books, but not pedigree-worthy in my opinion.

 

Of course I see Pov's argument as well and the RMs are allegedly OOs, well then so are the Toth's.

When the Toths first started coming out, I was certainly an advocate that they were more pedigree-worthy than the RMs, because of the number of keys and the fact that so many of the HG books were from that oh-so difficult pre-1964 part of the SA.

 

However, having seen more of the Toth collection emerge over time and seeing that there were a surprisingly high number of non-high grade books in the collection, I've changed my opinion and now believe it didn't have sufficient consistency of HG-ness to be pedigree-worthy.

 

Of course, having said that, I still think it's more pedigree-worthy than the Common Mountain collection. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
michaellee

michaellee

Posted
Posted
Just a general reply to all.

 

I am pleased to see this pedigree. "Why?", you may ask?

 

Because a Pedigree should not be about $$$. It should simply be about provenance. Something of the history of a book.

 

We can all go into an LCS or shop online for back issues and find nice books (especially GA/SA). Did you ever wonder from where a particular book came?

 

To me this has ALWAYS been the importance of a pedigree. While I am not a hard core collector anymore I spent over 30 years as one. I can appreciate the collector mind set. We have concepts like "Classic Cover". Or "Early Ditko". What these concepts mean is that a particular book has a quality that sets it a bit apart from those around it. And we pay X amount of dollars more for it, pedigree or not.

 

So why not a Pediigree? If we can track a large collection to the original owner, being bought from the original retail venue, why not acknoweldge that. It does NOT mean the book has to sell for X amount more than the non-pedigree biook. THAT concept is something that is manufactured by the collectors, since the collectors ultimately determine the price.

 

I say let's have MORE pedigrees. Let the collector determine the "value" but also let the collectors know that this book was originally collected by So And So. Provenance is an important aspect of any collectible. Simply to know about it.

 

And while the mid-60's is often touted as the real start of comic book collecting, I humbly submit that the 70's was the real start of general hoarding/buying multple copies/ cherry picking new books etc. by more and more collectors.

 

To my mind any SA collection of size, accumulated by one collector from the original retail source is worthy of a "pedigree". They do not even have to contain many keys. They should just be a reflection of a particular, known, collector's interests and accumulation.

Thumbs up to this!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shawn Low

Shawn Low

Posted
Posted

I just bid and won a Rocky Mountain ped book in today's Clink Focused Auctions.

 

Since the pedigree was announced back in 2008, no further pedigree information has come to light.

 

What I love about pedigrees are the stories behind them. Mile High, Okajima, Recil Mason, the Green River etc.

 

Anyone know the story behind these books? Is there one? Or is it just a good OO collection?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
Or is it just a good OO collection?

Yes.

 

Why then did CGC declare it a Pedigree?

 

Only CGC can answer for sure. The real debate is what the collecting community thinks about the Rocky Mountain collection as a pedigree. There are differences of opinion. On the one hand, the lack of early SA keys (1963 and earlier) in high grade argues against considering the collection pedigree-worthy. On the other hand, the extraordinary depth and breadth of the ultra high grade runs of most Marvel and some DC titles from 1964 onward (including probably as many top census copies as found in the Pacific Coast collection over this time period) is consistent with pedigree status.

 

Regardless, I think it's important that CGC tracks the origin of books from the collection with the Rocky Mountain designation, so that collectors who like its' qualities can find and purchase multiple comics from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shawn Low

Shawn Low

Posted
Posted

Only CGC can answer for sure.

 

Regardless, I think it's important that CGC tracks the origin of books from the collection with the Rocky Mountain designation, so that collectors who like its' qualities can find and purchase multiple comics from it.

 

Good points.

 

So what do people think of this pedigree? Granted, it would be great to see the full list of available books and grades prior to pass full judgement. However, Clink hasn't released that information no? It's 2011 and books from this ped announced in 2008 are still being released by them. Wonder what's left? Who knows, there might actually be pre-1964 books? From what I've read, CGC has only said that books are from the 1960s upwards (http://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=1148)

 

Just to recap, Clink are using this spiel for their Rocky Mountain ped books (emphasis on qualities are mine):

 

"The original owner collection that is now established as the Rocky Mountain Pedigree collection is comprised of over 5,000 books and it is by far the most impressive Silver, Bronze and Copper Age collection ever consigned to ComicLink since the business was founded in 1996. Across the board, whether they grade out 9.0, 9.4 or 9.8, these issues are newsstand fresh and glossy, with rich colors and either white or off-white to white page preservation. You cannot truly measure the look of them by the grades they were given. They were an incredible sight to behold prior to CGC slabbing and we are, quite frankly, as blown away now as we were when we first laid eyes on them."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
So what do people think of this pedigree?

It`s a great collection with many books that I`d love to have in my collection, and it`s great that the provenance of books from the collection can be tracked, but the collection is not worthy of being a "pedigree" for many of the reasons listed by namisgr.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing