Question for sellers - What Is The Point Of Feedback. Am I a jerk ???

[JohnBull]

The background

 

Mid October I see some Adam's X-Men on e-bay from a UK seller, Rybac. They're listed as VF/NM and I bid on and win 2 of them. The seller has a 1300 feedback which is 99.9% positive. In the first instance he tries to charge me the equivalent of £6-00 for shipping, but when I query that, it gets reduced to £2-50. This is a high rate for 2 books in the UK. About 5 days later I receive the books in a large brown envelope of the type with a cardboard backing, which is possibly the worst packaging I have ever seen from an e-bay dealer. The corners escaped getting smashed in transit, but the books were around the VF/+ mark. I don't have a scanner here, but I will try and post scans later to show this, but I somehow doubt that too many forum members are receiving undergraded books on a regular basis.

 

I have negatives from 2 people on my own feedback which currently stands at 146 (I'd guess about 60 as a buyer and 90 as a seller). Both were retaliatory. One was from a guy who never paid for an item he won and when I finally neged him, he gave one back with the line 'no comment'. The other was from a seller who sold me some books listed as VF and which turned out to be VG. In the second case, I queried with the seller, who refused any remedy and I then found paypal and square trade to be totally ineffective. I eventually left them a neg and got one back for my trouble.

 

Consequently, I am wary about contacting sellers when I have problems before I receive feedback. I've read the arguments on these boards from some people about why they prefer to give feedback when they've received it, but IMO it's just a licence to give a retaliatory negative if anyone dares to give them one. Rybac did eventually give me a positive, but not for 35 days, by which time I couldn't see the point in querying the original order.

 

The undergrade wasn't savage, but I am less tolerant from full time dealers than I am from individuals who are just selling the odd book from their collection. I expect the small sellers to get it wrong and factor that into my bid amounts. I probably ended up paying about the right guide price for the actual grades received, but a) I have no interest in a couple of VF's, I wanted VF/NM's and b) my final bids were actually higher, I just happened to win with a lesser amount.

 

Last night I finally got round to giving my negative "Books slightly overgraded, VF/+, poor packaging, high shipping cost."; And this morning I found the following e-mail in my inbox:

 

"WHAT is your problem. If you weren't happy with the condition of the books or any other part of the service that you received, why didn't you e-mail us to arrange for the books to be returned and to receive a refund as stated in the auction listing instead of leaving negative feedback. It's people like you with low feedbacks and little ebay experience that mess up full time sellers feedback ratings. You are a jerk"

 

The seller responded to my negative with:

 

"Buyer made no contact to discuss possible refund on purchases. Instead he leaves"

"unwarranted negative feedback. Packaging and shipping at cost. He needs to learn"

 

For completions sake, my response was as follows:

 

'I shall forward your e-mail (and this) to e-bay.

 

My problem is that you couldn't give feedback for over a month. My only 2 negatives are retaliatory and if I queried before you gave feedback, I felt that I was leaving myself open again. If you had done it immediately (ie: when I paid, which is when I complete my part of the transaction) I would have contacted you and tried to sort it out, but 4-6 weeks later, there seemed little point.

 

My issue is not just with the condition. I wasn't happy with the packaging, certainly not with what I paid, and it was more by luck than judgement that the books weren't further damaged in the post.

 

I may not have as many feedbacks as you, but 150 odd is certainly not 'little' and I have bought enough things to know good service when I see it.

 

Good service is not calling someone a jerk who is unhappy with the transaction and I was unhappy. If I could have pushed a button upon receipt marked 'make it so this transaction has never happened' I would have done so.

 

Also, tighten up your grading. If you think I'm wrong, I'll make you a bet. I'll send the books to you so you can assure yourself they are in the same condition. Then, send them to CGC. If they come back as VF/NM I'll pick up the slabbing costs and let you keep the books. If they come don't back that high, you send me the slabs and give me £25 for my time and trouble.

 

I tolerate bad grading from individuals selling part of their collection and I factor that into my bids. It is less excusable from full time dealers who make their living from the hobby'

 

Ok those are the facts. The question for you now is - What Is The Point Of Feedback ?

 

You may not have liked the way I handled the transaction, but surely the line 'It's people like you with low feedbacks and little ebay experience that mess up full time sellers feedback ratings' is ridiculous. The purpose of feedback IS NOT to ensure that at the end of the transaction both parties receive a positive (or nothing). There would be no point to this. Let's say that a seller regularly sells overgraded books. Half his customers either don't know or don't care and the other half contact him and receive a refund. As a result of this they either leave a positive or nothing and the seller has a near 100% rating. Where does that leave future buyers ? Well, it leaves them frequently buying overgraded books and either having to put up with them or go through the aggravation of sending them back. If the seller actually had feedback that reflects his wares, maybe people wouldn't buy from him, as I certainly wouldn't have in my case.

 

What if the seller is normally fantastic ? Well, I can only go on the evidence of the transaction at hand and for me, it wasn't a positive one. E-bay asks me to rate my transaction, not everyone else's. I also don't see why I have to have the hassle of contacting the seller and spending my time explaining my problems, repackaging the books (badly or shall I do it properly ?) and eventually receiving a refund which might not include original/return shipping and an amount to cover my paypal fees on the refund. If I had had the experience in a shop, I might have gone for a refund, but I would certainly have told all my friends what a bad experience I'd had rather than going round recommending the shop to them as a great place to deal with.

 

So, if you're a dealer, let me know your thoughts.

 

 

7.30 - Hadn't read this after posting and had no idea what had happened to the apostrophes and quotes.

 

[osborn_fr]

About Rybac:

 

you was lucky to receive your books. i never received mine. Rybac is on my list of "worst seller ever"...

[drbanner]

So, if you're a dealer, let me know your thoughts.

 

Hmmm...wish I could help, but I'm just a collector-dealer!

[blazingbob]

Me to, I'm a Dealer with a day job.

 

 

[JohnBull]

Me to, I'm a Dealer with a day job.

 

 

Very funny ! I have enjoyed that thread but the arcane classification of a dozen different types of collectors and dealers did seem to confuse. Mind you, I did ask Sellers and not Dealers.

[ArAich]

I'm a dealing-collector...

[Rocketeer]

sorry,...collector with delusional dealer tendencies.

[OldGuy]

I'm a collector with sellers remorse.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I'm Collectively Challenged.

[lighthouse]

I like to wait for my ice cream to melt a little and then smush it around in the bowl so it's like soft serve.

[blazingbob]

[Darthdiesel]

IMO, you should have tried to work out a refund or remedy before leaving feedback. You received the books and he did adjust his shipping cost; maybe they were in grade stated in auction until it went through the UK Mail system

 

Maybe you are just fed up with it and wanted to vent; maybe as osborn says rybac is the worst UK seller ever, but from your recounting of your situation with them, you had a reasonable seller, up until you negged him without warning and anyone would have been put enough to email you and call you a jerk. Multiple feedbacks does not a better seller make...

 

What is the point of feedback? For me, it's to write lewd comments in someone permanent ebay profile for all future potential transactors to see (i.e., my first ebay feedback to greggy)

[lighthouse]

What is the point of feedback? For me, it's to write lewd comments in someone permanent ebay profile for all future potential transactors to see (i.e., my first ebay feedback to greggy)

 

I'll keep that in mind, since I have two comments to leave for you...

[joe_collector]

IMO, you should have tried to work out a refund or remedy before leaving feedback.

 

Exactly, and in one infamous case of me receiving a couple of badly overgraded Byrne X-Men's, I shut off my first instinct to slam the guy, and simply emailed back in the nicest manner possible.

 

The guy told me he'd "whack his brother in the head" for sending POS copies out, and later I received a nice pack of X-Men books in the mail, gratis.

 

You get more bees with honey than with vinegar.

[Darthdiesel]

I have had a similar experience (with a seller who probably had tons of these modern overstock books) where I wrote back about how book was damaged and I didn't hold him responsible but if he could somehow hook me up with another copy. He mailed a NM/MT out to me for free and told me to keep the dinged up copy as a reader...

[JohnBull]

I take your points Darth, but why am I bound after what I consider to be a negative dealing, to have to do the work so that the seller can end up smelling of roses ?

 

As I said, maybe he's normally great. Well, he wasn't that time. Maybe he's usually [!@#%^&^], but it doesn't show because no one ever reports it.

 

How many threads are there here saying X, Y and Z is a bad seller ? Now tell me how often you see a seller with less than about 98% positive feedback. Even the most derided sellers on these boards have huge positive numbers on e-bay. Why ? Because the whole system seems to be predicated around giving positive feedback so that you receive one back in return.

 

It's a farce. When everybodies numbers are that high, you might as well discount the figures. I'd much prefer a system where 95%+ showed a good seller (hey, 19 out of 20 is a fairly good batting average), but where bad sellers actually had ratings like 52.5% not 98.8%.

[JohnBull]

I have had a similar experience (with a seller who probably had tons of these modern overstock books) where I wrote back about how book was damaged and I didn't hold him responsible but if he could somehow hook me up with another copy. He mailed a NM/MT out to me for free and told me to keep the dinged up copy as a reader...

 

The books weren't dinged in transit. They were just overgraded (general wear). I'll definitely post scans. That fact that they weren't dinged though was just luck. If they were, they'd have ended up VF- at best.

[ArAich]

What is the point of feedback? For me, it's to write lewd comments in someone permanent ebay profile for all future potential transactors to see (i.e., my first ebay feedback to greggy)

 

Sample feedback from Darth to me: CGC Forum members rule! Enjoy your crystal lite sopped "NM" comic!BWAHAHAHAHAAA![/b]....

[lighthouse]

It's a farce. When everybodies numbers are that high, you might as well discount the figures. I'd much prefer a system where 95%+ showed a good seller (hey, 19 out of 20 is a fairly good batting average), but where bad sellers actually had ratings like 52.5% not 98.8%.

 

Agreed. The system is too easy to abuse, and doesn't reflect the quality of a seller at all. It just reflects how well they can work the system. I can take a brand-new account to 300 feedback in less than 45 days without selling a single item I own, without acquiring any new items, for less than $200 in expenses. If you can "buy" a 300 feedback account for $200 and a few hours of your time, what does that say about the system?...

 

A better system would have more choices than three, and would make better reference to the products involved, rather than forcing you to click separate links to check out each transaction.

 

But it's not in eBay's interests to improve the system. Because John and Jane Doe are a big part of their revenue, and any "improved" system would be less friendly... eBay's all about friendly...

[Darthdiesel]

I always thought the point of an ebay transaction was to satisfy both parties - buyer gets what he paid for and seller gets paid... the feedback to me is just "frosting on the cake" I see what you mean and there are guys like garthgantu on this forum who advocate "dropping the neg" on "bad" sellers and using the feedback forum as a billboard advertising how horribly a seller treated you...

 

I realized after chasing feedback earlier on when I started that after you receive your first neg and realize how futile the whole system is, that you just don't care anymore and what matters more for a seller like me is to keep selling to quality customers and get repeat buyers who are happy with my service and put it out via word of mouth to their friends what kind of goods I sell. Obviously I had at least 3 people (from my feedback profile) out there who I could not win over, but I know those 3 didn't even give me a chance. Your audience is made up of all different types and some may take more effort than others to deal with. For me, it is knowing that I gave it all that I could, even when it means being the bigger person and "doing the work for" the seller or buyer.

 

 

To answer your initial inquiry "What Is The Point Of Feedback...", IMO, there is no practical point to anyone "seasoned". It is "smoke and mirrors" for the benefit of newbies. Once you get tired of the feedback game, you'll realize that placating both buyers and sellers without losing ground is the ULTIMATE goal of every transaction