Who created the Golden Age Sandman?

[Kakapo]

I have consulted the google, and yet I have found different answers. Some say he was a co-creation of Gardner Fox and Creig Flessel, yet another source says Gardner Fox and Bert Christman. Or did both artists contribute?

 

The answer presumably lies entombed within the DC Archives hardbacks. I'd drive to Borders and check, but they're shrinkwrapped.

 

If someone could clear this up for me, I'd be grateful. Not cash prize grateful, but nicely appreciative. Thanks!

[telerites]

You probably saw this in your internet searching already but on Don Markstein's Toonopedia, it says the following. So it appears it was Chrstman but Flessel is most associated with the character. I'm sure there are some boardies here that know for sure.

 

"Adventure Comics #40 wasn't quite the character's first appearance, tho. The 1939 issue of New York World's Fair Comics, an extra-big anthology DC put out to capitalize on the eponymous event, contained a Sandman story, and probably hit the stands a week or two before his first Adventure story (tho the one in Adventure is believed to have been written and drawn earlier).

 

Both "first" appearances were written by Gardner Fox (who also wrote the opening stories of The Flash, Doctor Fate and many other DC characters, from the 1940s to the '60s) and drawn by Bert Christman (whose prior credits include Scorchy Smith, but who has few subsequent ones because he died in World War II). The artist most associated with the character's early adventures is Creig Flessel (Shining Knight, Speed Saunders). It was Flessel who drew his stories in the first few issues of All Star Comics — including #3, in which he became a charter member of The Justice Society of America."

[snitzer]

Courtesy of the Forward from the Sandman DC Archives...

 

"The Crimson Avenger made his first appearance in Detective Comics #20 (cover date Oct. 1938), but his impact was minimal. A few months later, Bill Finger and Bob Kane create The Batman, who quickly proved to be a smash hit, for Detective Comics. On the heels of that launch, artist Bert Christman dreamed up The Sandman.

 

Vin Sullivan stated that Bert Christman created the name and basic concept of The Sandman. Writer Gardner Fox may have contributed as well to his creation."

 

There is also some dispute as to if the Adventure Comics #40 story was produced BEFORE the NY World's Fair #1, which is credited with The Sandman's first appearance.

[Kakapo]

Thanks to you both. GCD (comics.org) says that Christman drew a 10-page Sandman story in the 1939 NY World's Fair. It also says that this hit the newstands before Adventure 40. It's been a while since I read the Sandman story from Adventure 40, but doesn't it explain who he is and what he's doing, in an origin story kind of way? That would suggest it was the first one produced.

 

Christman apparently left DC after Adventure 43 to join the Air Force - sadly he didn't make it back. After a couple of fill-in issues, Flessel took over. http://www.comictreadmill.com/CTMBlogarchives/2006/2006_Individual/2006_06/001126.php

[snitzer]

Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be a documented origin story for The Sandman in any of the early Adventure works or the World's Fair. Overstreet doesn't recognize one either.

 

I'm not the most astute when it comes to the parameters that constitute an origin story, but after reading through the early Adventures, none of them seem to embody one. There's no back story about the creation of Dodd's alter ego, nothing about his parents, origin of cause/motivation or about the costume and associated utilities including the "gas gun." Maybe there really isn't one from the GA era because Christman died in WWII? Interesting.

[rjpb]

Courtesy of the Forward from the Sandman DC Archives...

 

"The Crimson Avenger made his first appearance in Detective Comics #20 (cover date Oct. 1938), but his impact was minimal. A few months later, Bill Finger and Bob Kane create The Batman, who quickly proved to be a smash hit, for Detective Comics. On the heels of that launch, artist Bert Christman dreamed up The Sandman.

 

 

Interesting - since costumewise, the original Sandman seems to have more in common with the pulp inspired Crimson Avenger than the long underwear fashion of Batman and Superman. Almost as if DC was hedging it's bets as to whether circus acrobat look would endure as well as the mask and hat look. We all know how that turned out - though Eisner had a successful run with the Spirit.

 

Does anyone know why DC went with the vintage Sandman look when it revived the character in the SA JSA x-over stories? - is it because old school collectors at the time thought of that look as the more memorable one - though the yellow and purple clad version with kid sidekick did appear in GA issues of All-Star.

[Yannis]

Courtesy of the Forward from the Sandman DC Archives...

 

"The Crimson Avenger made his first appearance in Detective Comics #20 (cover date Oct. 1938), but his impact was minimal. A few months later, Bill Finger and Bob Kane create The Batman, who quickly proved to be a smash hit, for Detective Comics. On the heels of that launch, artist Bert Christman dreamed up The Sandman.

 

Vin Sullivan stated that Bert Christman created the name and basic concept of The Sandman. Writer Gardner Fox may have contributed as well to his creation."

 

There is also some dispute as to if the Adventure Comics #40 story was produced BEFORE the NY World's Fair #1, which is credited with The Sandman's first appearance.

 

This pretty much sums it up I guess. Bert was Sandman's creator and everyone else contributed somewhat. And the story for the 40 was written first but I guess they pushed to get the WF # 1 book out for the fair quickly thinking they would make a kill with the 25 cent cover price.

[snitzer]

Courtesy of the Forward from the Sandman DC Archives...

 

"The Crimson Avenger made his first appearance in Detective Comics #20 (cover date Oct. 1938), but his impact was minimal. A few months later, Bill Finger and Bob Kane create The Batman, who quickly proved to be a smash hit, for Detective Comics. On the heels of that launch, artist Bert Christman dreamed up The Sandman.

 

Vin Sullivan stated that Bert Christman created the name and basic concept of The Sandman. Writer Gardner Fox may have contributed as well to his creation."

 

There is also some dispute as to if the Adventure Comics #40 story was produced BEFORE the NY World's Fair #1, which is credited with The Sandman's first appearance.

 

This pretty much sums it up I guess. Bert was Sandman's creator and everyone else contributed somewhat. And the story for the 40 was written first but I guess they pushed to get the WF # 1 book out for the fair quickly thinking they would make a kill with the 25 cent cover price.

 

That .25 cover price didn't fair so well if I recall correctly.

[Yannis]

Courtesy of the Forward from the Sandman DC Archives...

 

"The Crimson Avenger made his first appearance in Detective Comics #20 (cover date Oct. 1938), but his impact was minimal. A few months later, Bill Finger and Bob Kane create The Batman, who quickly proved to be a smash hit, for Detective Comics. On the heels of that launch, artist Bert Christman dreamed up The Sandman.

 

Vin Sullivan stated that Bert Christman created the name and basic concept of The Sandman. Writer Gardner Fox may have contributed as well to his creation."

 

There is also some dispute as to if the Adventure Comics #40 story was produced BEFORE the NY World's Fair #1, which is credited with The Sandman's first appearance.

 

This pretty much sums it up I guess. Bert was Sandman's creator and everyone else contributed somewhat. And the story for the 40 was written first but I guess they pushed to get the WF # 1 book out for the fair quickly thinking they would make a kill with the 25 cent cover price.

 

That .25 cover price didn't fair so well if I recall correctly.

 

Of course It did not! That is why they re-issued it with a 15 cent price and the ones who bought it at 25 cent got a Superman 1 or 2 (if I am correct here?) by mail.

[Yannis]

I would like to know where the people in DC got the info about Bert Christman. From surviving relatives perhaps ? And speaking of Archives, where on earth is Sandman Volume 2 archives? Or the Crimson Avenger archives ? Or the pre-Batman Detective archives? I believe almost anyone here would be interested in those.

[Zonker]

Does anyone know why DC went with the vintage Sandman look when it revived the character in the SA JSA x-over stories? - is it because old school collectors at the time thought of that look as the more memorable one - though the yellow and purple clad version with kid sidekick did appear in GA issues of All-Star.

 

I don't know, but it might have had to do with a desire to make the revived JSA visually distinct from their silver-aged counterparts. And the gas-masked version certainly did that. (thumbs u They also opted for the full version of Dr. Fate's helmet, despite the half-helmet showing up in the WWII issues of All-Star Comics. On the other hand, they chose the latter-day Hawkman yellow mask to distinguish him from the then-current Katar Hol Hawkman. And I've always wished they had dispensed with the later Atom costume and gone instead with the original, full blue mask version.

[Yannis]

Does anyone know why DC went with the vintage Sandman look when it revived the character in the SA JSA x-over stories? - is it because old school collectors at the time thought of that look as the more memorable one - though the yellow and purple clad version with kid sidekick did appear in GA issues of All-Star.

 

I don't know, but it might have had to do with a desire to make the revived JSA visually distinct from their silver-aged counterparts. And the gas-masked version certainly did that. (thumbs u They also opted for the full version of Dr. Fate's helmet, despite the half-helmet showing up in the WWII issues of All-Star Comics. On the other hand, they chose the latter-day Hawkman yellow mask to distinguish him from the then-current Katar Hol Hawkman. And I've always wished they had dispensed with the later Atom costume and gone instead with the original, full blue mask version.

 

Also perhaps that the Gas-masked Sandman was much better than the one Kirby did. Although it is great to see him again in the pages of JSA it would be much better if they made him go solo in his own series or perhaps expand Detective with Sandman. I think that would be a hit.

[rjpb]

Does anyone know why DC went with the vintage Sandman look when it revived the character in the SA JSA x-over stories? - is it because old school collectors at the time thought of that look as the more memorable one - though the yellow and purple clad version with kid sidekick did appear in GA issues of All-Star.

 

I don't know, but it might have had to do with a desire to make the revived JSA visually distinct from their silver-aged counterparts. And the gas-masked version certainly did that. (thumbs u They also opted for the full version of Dr. Fate's helmet, despite the half-helmet showing up in the WWII issues of All-Star Comics. On the other hand, they chose the latter-day Hawkman yellow mask to distinguish him from the then-current Katar Hol Hawkman. And I've always wished they had dispensed with the later Atom costume and gone instead with the original, full blue mask version.

 

Also perhaps that the Gas-masked Sandman was much better than the one Kirby did. Although it is great to see him again in the pages of JSA it would be much better if they made him go solo in his own series or perhaps expand Detective with Sandman. I think that would be a hit.

 

They did - Sandman Mystery Theatre - set in the late 30's it is one of my favorite series ever! Though you can pass on the Sleep of Reason mini - it has a tenuous relationship to the original series.

[Yannis]

Smt was very good. the art was ok. Was not too thrilled that it was vertigo at first but I grew on it. I did not know about the mini. Now can dc do a sandman movie 30s style and to make it sweeter have a cameo from the guy with the big ears. Have the crime lords the face and the brute in it. Would that be a good flick or what

[brasseye]

 

With no disrepect to you, SMT is not something I could see transfereable to a movie format.

Simply because it represents a gentler side to story telling, and the action is more a sideline, than the main attraction. And with Hollywoods penchant for their hero's to be brutally superior, and dynamic... I just don't see it.

 

As a more thought provoking piece of cinema, they'd just it up.

[nearmint]

Courtesy of the Forward from the Sandman DC Archives...

 

"The Crimson Avenger made his first appearance in Detective Comics #20 (cover date Oct. 1938), but his impact was minimal. A few months later, Bill Finger and Bob Kane create The Batman, who quickly proved to be a smash hit, for Detective Comics. On the heels of that launch, artist Bert Christman dreamed up The Sandman.

 

Vin Sullivan stated that Bert Christman created the name and basic concept of The Sandman. Writer Gardner Fox may have contributed as well to his creation."

 

There is also some dispute as to if the Adventure Comics #40 story was produced BEFORE the NY World's Fair #1, which is credited with The Sandman's first appearance.

 

This pretty much sums it up I guess. Bert was Sandman's creator and everyone else contributed somewhat. And the story for the 40 was written first but I guess they pushed to get the WF # 1 book out for the fair quickly thinking they would make a kill with the 25 cent cover price.

 

That .25 cover price didn't fair so well if I recall correctly.

 

Of course It did not! That is why they re-issued it with a 15 cent price and the ones who bought it at 25 cent got a Superman 1 or 2 (if I am correct here?) by mail.

 

That's my understanding. Those who saw the ad for the '39 World's Fair and sent in their quarter received an envelope containing both the WF and Superman #1.

 

That's a quarter well spent!

[rjpb]

With no disrepect to you, SMT is not something I could see transfereable to a movie format.

Simply because it represents a gentler side to story telling, and the action is more a sideline, than the main attraction. And with Hollywoods penchant for their hero's to be brutally superior, and dynamic... I just don't see it.

 

As a more thought provoking piece of cinema, they'd just it up.

With League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as an example - you're probably right. But beyond the relative obscurity of the character (for the general public)- the period setting is the biggest drawback to SMT ever becoming a movie. With the exception of a few WW2 movies - films set in the middle decades of the twentieth century don't have a strong track record in recent years ( The commercial success of the last Indiana Jones movie notwithstanding). A Sandman movie based on the Neil Gaiman character is far more likely in the future.

[Scrooge]

With the exception of a few WW2 movies - films set in the middle decades of the twentieth century don't have a strong track record in recent years ( The commercial success of the last Indiana Jones movie notwithstanding).

 

Unless they are sports related ... See Seabiscuit and Cinderella Man or maybe if it's a musical ... See Chicago or if it's crime related ... See Road to Perdition ... There is nothing unattractive about the period, the movie as all movies needs a strong center and the characters in MST do provide this. Alas, as mentioned, you can't even think of producing a "super-hero" movie without going overboard with the theatrics instead of concentrating on the characters' lives and not on their alter-ego. Too bad that's the current thinking b/c it has generated some great movie experiences over the years, ranging from The Incredibles where the family dynamic was as important if not more than the acrobatics and the Thin Man movies where Nick and Nora's relationship was more important than the crimes they solved. I would love a MST movie but it's not going to happen. In fact, if it were in production, I would fear a fiasco as bad as the Alec Baldwin starring The Shadow movie

[rjpb]

With the exception of a few WW2 movies - films set in the middle decades of the twentieth century don't have a strong track record in recent years ( The commercial success of the last Indiana Jones movie notwithstanding).

 

Unless they are sports related ... See Seabiscuit and Cinderella Man or maybe if it's a musical ... See Chicago or if it's crime related ... See Road to Perdition ...

I stand corrected - I was trying to think of some that were successful and came up blank

 

I would love a MST movie but it's not going to happen. In fact, if it were in production, I would fear a fiasco as bad as the Alec Baldwin starring The Shadow movie

That's what was going through my mind as well. A long anticipated movie that fell short no matter how hard I tried to like it.

[nearmint]

I'm cool with the idea that SMT will never be adapted to the silver screen. Its a really great comic, and I'll happily enjoy it in that format again and again!