Sketch List Ebay Flipper Follies....

[Meeley Man]

Im a cancer survivor too

 

 

and he is a tool for flipping the sketch.

 

Having or having had cancer doesnt change that.

 

Thank you.

[Meeley Man]

But ultimately, it's his to do what he wants with.

If he has to pay bills with it, or need to fuel his drug habit, he paid for it and can do anything he wants.

Mitch I.

 

Bingo, completely agree. Who are we to tell another person what they can and cannot do with their (comic related) personal property? Even if the seller is lying about his reasons for selling, who cares?

 

 

 

 

Totally agree that it's his property. He can sell it, burn it, wipe his heinie with it.

 

But in that spirit, people are free to have an opinion about the practice and actions taken to get the sketch in the first place. Good for the goose and all that.

 

When someone proclaims what a big fan they are of the artist and this character (as this guy did at the table in NYC) and then sell it 2 days later while simultaneously spelling the name of the artist AND character wrong in the title of his auction...well...you are free to question how much truth got told and when. Or you are free just to giggle a little at the irony.

 

The 10 folks who were on that sketch list and didn't get a sketch on Saturday while this seller did might have an opinion about how the piece was obtained and for what ultimate goal. And they have as much right to that opinion as the seller has a right to turn it into origami.

 

 

C

 

Here, here! Very well stated, Chris. And I agree 110% with it.

 

I guess some fans have just taken the thought of giving up on trying to make thing better in this hobby. Unfortunately for them, I'm not one of them. And I'm never going to be. So, while I'll apologise in advance for the annoyance I'll becausing them, it isn't going to stop me from speaking out (and up) when I know something is wrong.

[Claudio]

Didn't he misspell the name twice?

 

I think people are just venting. Some people want to get sketches from an artist and then get a spot taken by a guy who just wants to turn around to sell it for a profit and that pisses them off. They have a right to complain and if they can attach a big enough stigma to it, they can get the practice to stop. But it is also the right of the person who has the sketch to flip it. He spent time and money going to the con and he can make a profit if he so desires.

[Meeley Man]

Didn't he misspell the name twice?

 

I think people are just venting. Some people want to get sketches from an artist and then get a spot taken by a guy who just wants to turn around to sell it for a profit and that pisses them off. They have a right to complain and if they can attach a big enough stigma to it, they can get the practice to stop. But it is also the right of the person who has the sketch to flip it. He spent time and money going to the con and he can make a profit if he so desires.

 

You're right, they CAN do that. They have the legal right to do so. But it doesn't make it "right." Especially when the consequences from doing it can affect a lot more people than just them. What about the rights of others, who are truly fans of the artist, not losing their ability of getting a sketch for themselves, because the artist has stopped doing so because of eBay flippers? Or do they not matter?

[Claudio]

 

You're right, they CAN do that. They have the legal right to do so. But it doesn't make it "right." Especially when the consequences from doing it can affect a lot more people than just them. What about the rights of others, who are truly fans of the artist, not losing their ability of getting a sketch for themselves, because the artist has stopped doing so because of eBay flippers? Or do they not matter?

 

I don't see how it makes it "wrong". They are providing a service to many others who can't go to the con. You don't have any more right than a flipper to that sketch. You may think you do because your motives are more "pure" but in reality the flipper should have the same opportunity. I also think that it is in your right to talk as badly as you want about flippers and try to squash that business. Personally, I have never gotten a sketch at a convention so it doesn't matter to me either way.

[Meeley Man]

 

You're right, they CAN do that. They have the legal right to do so. But it doesn't make it "right." Especially when the consequences from doing it can affect a lot more people than just them. What about the rights of others, who are truly fans of the artist, not losing their ability of getting a sketch for themselves, because the artist has stopped doing so because of eBay flippers? Or do they not matter?

 

I don't see how it makes it "wrong". They are providing a service to many others who can't go to the con. You don't have any more right than a flipper to that sketch. You may think you do because your motives are more "pure" but in reality the flipper should have the same opportunity. I also think that it is in your right to talk as badly as you want about flippers and try to squash that business. Personally, I have never gotten a sketch at a convention so it doesn't matter to me either way.

 

It is wrong, in an ethical (not legal) way, because of what a sketch is supposed to represent: A token of goodwill from, and a connection to, the artist, for whom the person getting it is suppsoedly a big admirer of. It undermines an almost sacred truth, between fans and creators. That is why it is wrong. As someone who has never gotten a sketch, you might not understand that.

 

And when you think about how the audience of this hobby is always getting smaller, to let such practices run unchecked seems almost insane. Again, I may not have any more of a LEGAL right to a sketch, than a flipper, but I'm sure the artist who's pumping it out wants it to go to someone who appreciates it, over someone who is a mere profiteer.

[Claudio]

 

It is wrong, in an ethical (not legal) way, because of what a sketch is supposed to represent: A token of goodwill from, and a connection to, the artist, for whom the person getting it is suppsoedly a big admirer of. It undermines an almost sacred truth, between fans and creators. That is why it is wrong. As someone who has never gotten a sketch, you might not understand that.

 

And when you think about how the audience of this hobby is always getting smaller, to let such practices run unchecked seems almost insane. Again, I may not have any more of a LEGAL right to a sketch, than a flipper, but I'm sure the artist who's pumping it out wants it to go to someone who appreciates it, over someone who is a mere profiteer.

 

The only thing I see as unethical is the fact that he lied about being an admirer. I think it is hilarious that he still has the name wrong in the description and he doesn't know how to spell the character either!

 

You are 100% right in the fact that I am also sure the artist would rather it go to a true fan. However, there are measures he can take to make sure that the fan keeps it (personalization) or that it has a lower resale value.

[Khazano]

 

You're right, they CAN do that. They have the legal right to do so. But it doesn't make it "right." Especially when the consequences from doing it can affect a lot more people than just them. What about the rights of others, who are truly fans of the artist, not losing their ability of getting a sketch for themselves, because the artist has stopped doing so because of eBay flippers? Or do they not matter?

 

I don't see how it makes it "wrong". They are providing a service to many others who can't go to the con. You don't have any more right than a flipper to that sketch. You may think you do because your motives are more "pure" but in reality the flipper should have the same opportunity. I also think that it is in your right to talk as badly as you want about flippers and try to squash that business. Personally, I have never gotten a sketch at a convention so it doesn't matter to me either way.

 

It is wrong, in an ethical (not legal) way, because of what a sketch is supposed to represent: A token of goodwill from, and a connection to, the artist, for whom the person getting it is suppsoedly a big admirer of. It undermines an almost sacred truth, between fans and creators. That is why it is wrong. As someone who has never gotten a sketch, you might not understand that.

 

And when you think about how the audience of this hobby is always getting smaller, to let such practices run unchecked seems almost insane. Again, I may not have any more of a LEGAL right to a sketch, than a flipper, but I'm sure the artist who's pumping it out wants it to go to someone who appreciates it, over someone who is a mere profiteer.

 

Token of good will? Artists charge money for sketches. No good will involved. They're drawing themselves lunch money, spending money, and money to pay off con expenses.

 

I could see getting as emotional and charged up as you're being if this discussion were about freebies. I attend a con in town with about three big name artists a year whom all give away freebies. Those will never be sold because they are, as you put it, literally tokens of good will...But I have also encountered artists who charged well above the resale value of their sketch and have been told "hey ive got a family to feed" when asked about getting a cheaper, quicker one for my little book. You act as though all artists are sacrificing thier talent and doing fanboys a favor by allowing us the privilege of BUYING a sketch from them. When lets face it, with the exception of a small number of top tier artists who dont need the money, that is not the case.

 

This moral high horse you're on isn't nearly as black and white as you make it out to be....

[Andy Kuhn-migration]

Token of good will? Artists charge money for sketches. No good will involved. They're drawing themselves lunch money, spending money, and money to pay off con expenses.

 

I could see getting as emotional and charged up as you're being if this discussion were about freebies. I attend a con in town with about three big name artists a year whom all give away freebies. Those will never be sold because they are, as you put it, literally tokens of good will...But I have also encountered artists who charged well above the resale value of their sketch and have been told "hey ive got a family to feed" when asked about getting a cheaper, quicker one for my little book. You act as though all artists are sacrificing thier talent and doing fanboys a favor by allowing us the privilege of BUYING a sketch from them. When lets face it, with the exception of a small number of top tier artists who dont need the money, that is not the case.

 

This moral high horse you're on isn't nearly as black and white as you make it out to be....

 

 

I'm a professional comics artist and i used to do free sketches at shows. i stopped because of exactly what you guys are talking about. it was a little disconcerting to do a bunch of free sketches on a saturday and sunday, and then see half of them up on ebay the following tuesday. don't get me wrong, i firmly believe that once a sketch leaves my hands that the owner is free to do whatever he or she wants with it. it's their property, and they can set it on fire if that's what they want. i'm just saying that i now charge a minimal amount ($5 to $10) for quick head sketches. it's not an unreasonable charge, just a little something so that i don't feel so irritated when i see it for sale later on. that's my 1.5 cents worth, thanks for listening.

 

andy kuhn

 

p.s. i still do freebies for little kids, but if you're old enough to make a living i have to charge something.

[Meeley Man]

 

You're right, they CAN do that. They have the legal right to do so. But it doesn't make it "right." Especially when the consequences from doing it can affect a lot more people than just them. What about the rights of others, who are truly fans of the artist, not losing their ability of getting a sketch for themselves, because the artist has stopped doing so because of eBay flippers? Or do they not matter?

 

I don't see how it makes it "wrong". They are providing a service to many others who can't go to the con. You don't have any more right than a flipper to that sketch. You may think you do because your motives are more "pure" but in reality the flipper should have the same opportunity. I also think that it is in your right to talk as badly as you want about flippers and try to squash that business. Personally, I have never gotten a sketch at a convention so it doesn't matter to me either way.

 

It is wrong, in an ethical (not legal) way, because of what a sketch is supposed to represent: A token of goodwill from, and a connection to, the artist, for whom the person getting it is suppsoedly a big admirer of. It undermines an almost sacred truth, between fans and creators. That is why it is wrong. As someone who has never gotten a sketch, you might not understand that.

 

And when you think about how the audience of this hobby is always getting smaller, to let such practices run unchecked seems almost insane. Again, I may not have any more of a LEGAL right to a sketch, than a flipper, but I'm sure the artist who's pumping it out wants it to go to someone who appreciates it, over someone who is a mere profiteer.

 

Token of good will? Artists charge money for sketches. No good will involved. They're drawing themselves lunch money, spending money, and money to pay off con expenses.

 

I could see getting as emotional and charged up as you're being if this discussion were about freebies. I attend a con in town with about three big name artists a year whom all give away freebies. Those will never be sold because they are, as you put it, literally tokens of good will...But I have also encountered artists who charged well above the resale value of their sketch and have been told "hey ive got a family to feed" when asked about getting a cheaper, quicker one for my little book. You act as though all artists are sacrificing thier talent and doing fanboys a favor by allowing us the privilege of BUYING a sketch from them. When lets face it, with the exception of a small number of top tier artists who dont need the money, that is not the case.

 

This moral high horse you're on isn't nearly as black and white as you make it out to be....

 

Yes, and quite a few of them DO charge, to try and protect themselves from profiteers who would take advantage of the goodwill of a freebie sketch. If these pathetic flippers didn't exist, you might be surprised how many artist would be willing to do free sketches for the fans.

 

While I have no doubt that there are artists like you say, I've talked with more than a couple who've told me the charge is a way to try and discuorge flippers from getting on their lists and protecting themselves from the ones who slip by.

 

I think my "moral high horse" is on pretty firm ground here. If eBay flippers were gone tomorrow, I think artists who want to charge for sketches would be more the exception, not the norm that it is right now.

[Meeley Man]

I'm a professional comics artist and i used to do free sketches at shows. i stopped because of exactly what you guys are talking about. it was a little disconcerting to do a bunch of free sketches on a saturday and sunday, and then see half of them up on ebay the following tuesday. don't get me wrong, i firmly believe that once a sketch leaves my hands that the owner is free to do whatever he or she wants with it. it's their property, and they can set it on fire if that's what they want. i'm just saying that i now charge a minimal amount ($5 to $10) for quick head sketches. it's not an unreasonable charge, just a little something so that i don't feel so irritated when i see it for sale later on. that's my 1.5 cents worth, thanks for listening.

 

andy kuhn

 

p.s. i still do freebies for little kids, but if you're old enough to make a living i have to charge something.

 

Thanks, Andy, for backing-up my point. The thing about this whole situation is, that as a true fan myself, knowing that artists are just trying to protect themselves from being used and abused by flippers, makes it hard to be angry at them when they charge for a con sketch. I mean, you guys do have the right to prevent yourselves from being taken advantage of. It just sad that so many honest and loyal fans have to pay the price for the actions of a few.

 

I've always felt that con sketches are more than just your typical piece of comic art. There is something more and special to them, that puts it above just another product to be bought and sold. I could never part with ANY of the sketches I've gotten (including one from you).

[MedicAR]

I had cancer once. Big deal. Get over it, move on.

 

While I'm a strong believer in the "it's his property now" defense, I've also had to pay the price for people that have done this by paying more and more for quick sketches at shows. I completely understand both sides of the argument. Ultimately, as long as he didn't weasel his way into a sketch, it's his to do with as he pleases.

 

Even though it means I'll have to pay a fortune to get one myself someday.....

[William Vuk]

Wow, that was quick. Here's his defense for what he's doing:

 

"Hi and thanks as usual i made a mistake posting late.I'am a true fan i unfortunately i over spent at the show only to come home to a hefty medical insurace bill.being a cancer survivor and needing it i had to make some sacrfices.im sorry this was one of them.hopefully i might be able to replace it some day.hope that makes u feel better.not a tool." - fettbob1

 

I don't really know what to say here. I mean, even if the story is true (and we really have no way of knowing), is "I overspent" really an excuse? If you don't have the funds, then why are you buying stuff, especially if you have had medical expenses like he claims here? So, he's either a tool/liar or a fool who is easily parted from his money. I'm not sure which I'd like to be known as.

 

 

As someone who was stricken by cancer and very close to death, I find your comment repugnant. I can honestly say that when I was sick, spending more money than I had readily available did not concern me one-iota if it made me feel good, even if for only a few fleeting minutes.

 

That this buyer may have overextended himself on a whim, is really none of your concern and for you to judge him and his veracity and basically mock his disease is truly beyond the pale.

 

I hope for your sake that you are never stricken with a serious and life threatening condition like cancer so that you never get pigeon holed by another human being as either a tool or a fool.

[Meeley Man]

I hope for your sake that you are never stricken with a serious and life threatening condition like cancer so that you never get pigeon holed by another human being as either a tool or a fool.

 

You know, I'm probably wasting my time, as seeing as THIS was the very first post you made here, it is pretty obvious you are spoiling for a fight. Still, I feel an obligation to respond, so I will. I'm not going to go into any great detail on this, simply requote something I said earlier in this very thread, which you should have seen, if you got past the one you quoted, to be the only response you are going to get from me on this:

 

"Both my sets of grandparents all died from various forms of cancer. That makes it a good possibility that I'll get some form of it, too, if I live long enough. But even if I did, I still wouldn't do as this flipper has done. Just because a person has suffered something like this, doesn't mean that it gives them a free pass on being called out on something that isn't right or fair. And if this guy IS happening to be lying, well, that just puts his wrong on a whole other level, doesn't it?"

 

Thank you.

[NelsonAI]

 

I am respectful of everyone's opinion even if it differs from mine.

 

Once someone pays for an item, they can do as they please. Whether it's 1 day or 1 year, what's the difference?

 

People go to conventions, spend a lot of money and perhaps try to recoup some of those expenses or make a profit. There's plenty of flipping of convention sketches and it's not just on ebay. A lot of people flip sketches on these boards, CAF, ComicArt-L, etc.

 

Call it the comic fans economic stimulus package if you will. .

 

Now, the issue here really seems to be the use of "sympathy" to get higher bids. If I want to sell something, I just sell it under the typical "cleaning house". I don't feel a need to provide any other back story to entice people to bid. Whether it's a legitimate story or not, it doesn't impact how I would bid on an item but it may for others.

 

Cheers!

N